Term 2 Judicial Thread ~

With the Passage of CoL Section G.3, this Office hereby declares the position of Cultural Advisor VACANT. Cultural Advisor Curufinwe has not posted Instructions once during this Demogame. Nor does he post discussions, statistics, lists, answer requests for information in the Cultural thread. Therefore, his position has fallen into the parameters set forth by the People in CoL Section G.3 as being VACANT. This is a re-occurring situation in the Cultural Department, and also one common to Curufinwe. This Chief Justice has seen this happen almost every Term Curufinwe has been elected to the Culture Department.

As this situation is not just an error or excused absence or a unique, one-time occurance, this Office declares the Cultural Advisor's positon VACANT and requests that the President now appoint snipelfritz to the Advisor's position, replacing Curufinwe.

In accordance with CoL G.3, I second the motion to remove Curufinwe from office. I recommend to the President to appoint the deputy, snipelfritz to the advisor position.

May it Please the Court!

I have herewith the revised Proposed Section O(1) of the CoL in its Proposed Poll form. I request a Judicial Review (my 2nd in 24 hours!) to evaluate whether it can be put before the People.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2174632&postcount=36

Oh, and since I will be officially absent effective Tuesday, I'd like his Honor, the Chief Justice to post the poll.

And I forgot the discussion thread in the post:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97861

I would like to publicly thank the honorable Public Defender, KCCrusader for his quick response in supporting my call for Curufinwe's position being declared vacant. KCCrusader has shown to be a worthy addition to the Judicial Branch and shall receive my support if he choses to run again.

Honorable Domestic Advisor Sir Donald III, I acknowledge your request for Judicial Review and will make the appropriate postings tomorrow.

Sir Donald III has requested a Judicial Review on the Proposed Poll for amending the Code of Laws with Section O. This request has been accepted and listed in post #4 of this thread, as DG5JR14. It is now open for Judicial Review and comments by the public. This court encourages participation by Japanatica's citizens.

Admittedly, I still have my reservations, mostly because I am unsure as to how the scheme described will play out. This is, of course, and uncomfortable feeling one usually recieves when changes are made to the way one is used to doing things. It only means I've been around here too long.

As for the true matter at hand, immeadiately, I find no conflict with any existing regulation (though I reserve final judgement for the moment), and expess my hope that this law may be ratified in an expedient manner.

DG5JR14 Submitted by: DA Sir Donald III

I find that this legislation in no way conflicts with current legislation, and has my approval to move to voting procedure.

Cyc said:

I would like to publicly thank the honorable Public Defender, KCCrusader for his quick response in supporting my call for Curufinwe's position being declared vacant. KCCrusader has shown to be a worthy addition to the Judicial Branch and shall receive my support if he choses to run again.

Honorable Domestic Advisor Sir Donald III, I acknowledge your request for Judicial Review and will make the appropriate postings tomorrow.

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Thank you for your commendation. I return it in regards to Cyc's prompt and organized procedure of this court!

Your Honor, please also examone Post #40 in this thread, as I have another JR request for you.

Also, once His Honor reviews the Proposed Poll (DG5JR14), I request that he personally deliver it to poll.

Sir Donald III has requested a Judicial Review concerning the powers of the Vice President in regards to creating a Turn Chat Instruction Thread, if the President has not done so within the 24 hour period prior to a scheduled Turn Chat. The Law in question pertaining to this situation that Sir Donald III would like referenced is Article G, Section 2 of the Constitution.


This request has been accepted and has been listed in post #4 of this thread as DG5JR15.

DG5JR14

After review of the proposed Section of the Code of Laws put forth by Sir Donald III , and finding no conflicts with existing Law, I recommend that this legislative document be submitted for ratification by the House.

To Sir Donald III,

Sorry I missed you request for a JR in post #40, and thank you for bringing to my attention. I will honor your request and post your ratification poll for you, as soon as I can get confirmation from Octavian X, in his post above, that he is signing off on DG5JR14.

DG5JR15

Sir Donald IIIhas asked for a Judicial Review of a newly ratified Article of the Constitution. The Section of this Article in question, G.2, is listed below:


The question that SDIII asks in regards to this Section is:

Does the Vice President have the right to create Turnchat Instruction Threads if the President has not done so within 24 Hours of the Pre-specified time of the TC?

In the eyes of the Chief Justice, the Turn Chat Instruction thread is not seen as "an instruction". It is an announcement with links and guidance to not only the Council Leaders, but to all citizens of Japanatica. It is a thread that allows those Council Members an opportunity to complete one of the most important part of their jobs.

Organizing Turn Chats is one of the most important parts of the President's job. One of the main aspects of this is the timely posting of the TCIT. Even though the Vice President follows the President in the Chain of Command, and can be seen as the President's Deputy, posting a TCIT is not comparable to posting Instructions in a TCIT. There is a separation of protocol, so to speak, when go from a Leader position to the Chief Executive position. The latter having more complex responsibilities.

So, to answer SDIII's question in regards to Article G, Section 2, no. The Vice President does not have that right.

DG5JR14

I find no conflicts of the proposed laws with existing regulations, and ask that the law be submitted to the people in a timely and expedient manner.

DG5JR15

Reading the Chief Justice's reasoning, I am inclined to agree with him, though not entirely. In contrast to the his opinion, however, I do feel that a Turn Chat Instruction Thread does qualify as an 'instruction.'

I think that a TCIT, which always mentions the specific time of a chat, it is an instruction in that is specifies when and where a chat will be taking place.

I also find in this way for reasons of plain common sense. It would be rather difficult for a Minister, Governor, or Deputy otherwise, to post any instructions 24 hours before a turn chat if there is not a TCIT.
Since chats are scheduled ahead of time, anyway, it's a matter of convience for everyone charged with posting instructions. The TCIT gets up if the President is unable to do so in situations where he is absent due to circumstances beyond his control. Leaders are able to do their job without worrying about an absent President. Quite frankly, we save a lot of hassle, and no one gets hurt.

To directly answer the question at hand, yes, the Vice President, as deputy and assistant to the President, has the right to create Turnchat Instruction Threads if the President has not done so within 24 Hours of the Pre-specified time of the TC.

even though i agree with cyc on most legal things, on this one i must agree with oct

The Deputy will be permitted to conduct the
affairs of the office as directed,

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that plain and simple states it right there

well thats my attempt to start discussions in the judical thread

DG5JR15 Submitted by:Sir Donald III

If no instructions have
been posted for an office within 24 hours of the upcoming
Turn Chat...

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Because this Article refers to the instruction posters as "an office" I am inclined to believe this includes the office of the President. The wording as is suggests that all offices have a deputy that can take over if instructions are not posted. If there is no instruction thread, instructions cannot be posted, and the game could face delays or stoppages. In order to preserve the tempo of the game and to uphold the usefullness of the Vice Presidency to fill in for unexpected absences, I find that it is within the VP's purview to create the turn chat instruction thread if it has not been posted 24 hours before the turnchat is schedueled to begin.

Black_Hole said:

even though i agree with cyc on most legal things, on this one i must agree with oct

"The Deputy will be permitted to conduct the
affairs of the office as directed,


that plain and simple states it right there

well thats my attempt to start discussions in the judical thread

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....or during a planned Absence of the elected official.

Well, there ya go, Black_Hole. You said it yourself, "as directed", although you left out the other allowable time, a planned Absense. Now that the Judicial Review is over, we (I) can explain my Opinion a little better. The question asked was referred to the above Article. It did not say that the VP was given direction by the President to create the TCIT, nor did it say there was a planned Absense. In fact, by its wording, it suggested that niether situation was present; "...does the Vice Presiden have the right to create..."

So, sorry, but I based my Opinion on the Article and the question. I would really like to thank you for voicing your opinion in this matter and would like to hear more about my response. Please keep it up!

Sorry to say, but I disagree with all of you on a technicality:

"Article D. The Executive branch is responsible for determining
and implementing the will of the People. It is headed
by the President who shall be the primary Designated
Player. The President shall take direction from a
council of leaders and from other elected and appointed
officials via the turnchat instruction thread. The President
shall be tasked with control of worker actions."

Nowhere in article D does it say who shall be in charge of establishing the turn chat instruction thread. I take it from Article N that this right is then maintained by the citizens - ie anyone can set up the TCIT, since any citizen can perform any action "not forbidden by the forum rules, or by this constitution."

Please forgive me if I have missed part of the constitution that is relevant, and it does actually expressly say that the president is the only person allowed to set up the TCIT.

Also, we should ammend article N to restrict citizens from disobeying the code of laws, on the basis that the constitution does not forbid it? My understanding is that the COL is a "governing law," not part of the constitution itself, and thus not expressly included in article N. I thus request a judicial review on whether the constitution (article N) actually requires citizens to follow the code of laws.

Thanks in advance

Civman2004 said:

Sorry to say, but I disagree with all of you on a technicality:

Nowhere in article D does it say who shall be in charge of establishing the turn chat instruction thread. I take it from Article N that this right is then maintained by the citizens - ie anyone can set up the TCIT, since any citizen can perform any action "not forbidden by the forum rules, or by this Constitution."

Please forgive me if I have missed part of the constitution that is relevant, and it does actually expressly say that the president is the only person allowed to set up the TCIT.

Thanks in advance

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In my opinion, Civman2004, you technical point resolves our disagreement. In quoting Article D of the Constitution, you you posted:
It is headed by the President who shall be the primary Designated Player.
It says the President shall be the Primary Designated Player. It is not the responsibility of the President to post the TCIT. It is the responsibility of the Desinated Player. Let's say the President had a death in the family, and therefore asked the VP to take over her duties for a while. Then the VP would be the Primary Designated Player and would be responsible for posting the TCIT. This is because it's the responsibilty of the DP. That is why you or I don't post the TCIT. It's that easy. Because this is a responsibilty of the DP, once the Constitution states that the President is the Primary DP, the TCIT issue is resolved.

If the President has not posted that she has a planned Absense and/or has directed the next person in charge to attend to her duties, then she still retains all of her duties during said period of time. Being Primary DP is one of those duties. In having that duty, posting the TCIT falls under the list of all the items required of the Primary DP.

If we wanted to be so technical, we could make a Law stating the requirements of the DP. Would you like to write it up?

Civman2004 said:

Also, we should ammend article N to restrict citizens from disobeying the code of laws, on the basis that the constitution does not forbid it? My understanding is that the COL is a "governing law," not part of the constitution itself, and thus not expressly included in article N. I thus request a judicial review on whether the constitution (article N) actually requires citizens to follow the code of laws.

Thanks in advance

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Civman2004 has requested a Judicial Review of Article N of the Constitution in regards to the question of amending said Article to include the Code of Laws as part of the ruleset referred to in it.

His actual question is, "whether the constitution (article N) actually requires citizens to follow the code of laws".

This request has been accepted and is listed in post #4 of this thread as DG5JR16. This Court encourages all citizens to participate in discussing this matter before and/or after the completion of Judicial Review.