TSG 244 After Actions Thread

vadalaz

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In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.

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- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
- Did you go for Sacred Sites or a more traditional culture game?
- How many natural wonders ended up inside your borders? Which one was the most useful?
- Did you colonize the other continent?
 
Cultural victory turn 187

This was a comically peaceful game, focused almost entirely on infrastructure and wonders. I built three scouts, an archer and two caravels the whole game (with the exception of the 6 foreign legion late in the game that I wiped Germany out with - he kept settling in between Madrid and Barcelona (King Solomon's Mines site)). I did DoW Germany and the Inca a few times for peace deals. With the gpt from Barringer the AI gives very generous concessions.

I went the more traditional culture route knowing it was a continents map. All the tiny, low infrastructure cities in sacred sites makes getting to Astronomy slow, and then getting to hotels and other tourism boosting techs slow too.

For natural wonders, mine were King Solomon's Mines +500 (Barcelona), My K +100 (Seville) and Barringer Crater +500 (Cordoba). Each of these cities churned out multiple helpful wonders.

For religion I took initiation rites and pagodas, followed by cheap missionaries and Hermitage tourism. The cheap missionaries help me spam the other continent and get a few shared religion bonuses.

Spain50.png


Spain75.png
Spain103.png
Spain150.png
Spain188.png
 
Cultural victory turn 217

Went full Sacred Sites using OWN from KSM after discovering it first (despite it being right next to Berlin). There was an embarrassment or riches in terms of NWs in this game. TBH I think the only NW that made any real difference to my game in terms of yields was KSM. I settled near BC after using the 500g from discovering it to buy a settler, but I never actually claimed the tile; come to think of it, that one might actually have made a difference, doh! I went Liberty first until the free settler, then Piety up to Reformation. The rest of my policies were a mish mash of whatever became available. My religion was OWN, World Church, Cathedrals, Mosques, and SS (I should have just taken Pagodas and Mosques as none of those Cathedrals ever got any great works in them, oh well).

I think I DOW'd Germany a couple of times in the early game to prevent them settling awkwardly between Madrid and Barcelona, while the latter of those 2 cities pumped out settlers to fill that gap. The second time I DOW'd Germany was when I decided to wipe them out using a horde of chariot archers produced by KSM Barcelona. I settled a few more cities SE of Madrid after the Germany conquest while I rushed Astronomy to find the other continent but, on reflection, I should have been more aggressive given the difficulty setting and also wiped out the Inca with my horde, which ended up spending the rest of the game doing nothing (you'll see in the screenshot that they're just parked around Munich). I was concerned that I'd still be finishing them off when I met the other civs and get a bad warmonger penalty, as I was just about at Astronomy, which might have prevented open borders. Doing so would have netted me at least another 24 tourism (as the Inca religion had monasteries), which could have sped up the victory considerably as I won with only 87 tourism total. As I was the first to meet every other civ, I could have parked my caravels and destroyed Pachacuti, then embarked on my voyage of discovery. Bismark helpfully built the Great Lighthouse in Berlin, and I opened Exploration just before Astronomy so it didn't take long to find the others and then get open borders and trade routes going. In the end I think I only bulbed one great musician in Egypt, just before winning.

The main lessons I took from the game were:
  • You can be very aggressive on the lower difficulties without much trouble
  • Sacred Sites is incredibly powerful if successfully pulled off
  • If you get SS going, you don't need to worry about using cultural great people for works or getting the theming bonus wonders (I did, but didn't fill all the slots)
If I were to play this save again I'd just wipe out Bismark and Pacahcuti, then ensure the home continent was blanketed in as many cities as possible while getting to Astronomy. Bulb a few GMs, make a little war; probably would have sped things up quite a bit.

Edit: Just realised I also never bothered to check if Bismark's cities had already bought my faith buildings before I conquered them, and I never annexed them lol

Spoiler Victory screenshot :

GOTM244 victory.jpg

 
Cultural victory T201. An amazing map, a fun and satisfying game, although my finish time might have been quicker if not for two mistakes/wrong decisions.

The first is a common failing of mine: I tend to build things I don't need, especially in case the victory can be achieved quickly. That manifests itself in games like the recent GotM with Huns domination, but also here: I did not need to build factories, or win World's Fair to win the game, or build 5 expands. By trimming the fat, so to speak, I could certainly shave some turns off. I am uncertain about my choice of opening Piety after tradition to do sacred sites 'on the side' on six cities. I think the extra 24 base tourism was certainly helpful, especially since on King you don't need huge base tourism to win the game quickly. On the other hand, it dramatically slows down aesthetics (and rationalism - but do I really need that this game? probably not before finishing aesthetics), which prompted me to invest in World's Fair.

The second mistake was a lot sillier, and also funnier I suppose. On turn 191, I had gifted a city to China, bulbed three musicians into her land, and expected to win the next turn. Only for the game to inform me that cultural victory was imminent, and I needed to become influential with one more civ! In the tourism window, I had not scrolled down, or at least not recently enough, and had not noticed that Inca, one of my island sharers, was top culture. So I scrambled to get some foreign legions out and wiped his cities off the map.
Spain_victory.png


I typically do not replay games, but I am kind of curious if I can manage a much quicker time by pursuing the victory condition with more dedication.
 
t165 Culture Win (with Sacred Sites).

The first 100 turns were by far the most exiting. I settled all three Natural Wonders, and got One With Nature. Barcelona (near Solomon's Mines) turned out far more productive than the capital, and it also had more food with all those fish and crabs around. So I built all of my wonders there.

However, I got forward settled by both the Inca and Germany, and around turn 63 my empire looked rather disjointed:
Screenshot_20240502_001553.png


I couldn't let this go on, so I went warring. After conquering the first Incan city, they offered me Tiwanaku in a peace deal. I accepted the deal so I could focus on Germany, which I decided to eliminate since Berlin was too close to Barcelona. In turn 100 my empire already looked much better:

Screenshot_20240502_014648.png


I now had 4 cities of my own and 4 puppets. I considered clearing the continent before meeting the other civs. But the Inca were only moderately annoyed at my warmongering, so I decided to let them live. They weren't a threat, and could even be a useful trade partner. I still had about 30 turns left to Astronomy, and more cities would mean slower research.

I got a Great Admiral from the Liberty finisher a few turns before Astronomy. He spawned in Barcelona, so I sent him west. He discovered Korea and China early.

Once I had Astronomy the rest of the game was straightforward: Buy/build/upgrade Caravels, find all the others, send trade routes to the cultural leaders, buy open borders with everyone. I considered sending a Great Prophet to Korea for shared religion, but as soon as my prophet spawned, they got a religion of their own. So it didn't make sense to send the prophet over, and I planted it instead,

Spammed cities all over my continent, and won turn 165:

Screenshot_20240503_014341.png


Had 17 cities in the end, and one I gifted to China because they didn't have a coastal city for a trade route.

Notes from the game:

Ruins - spear, camp, 85 gold, 20 faith
early BO - sc, sc, settler (bought), sc, shrine, worker

t9 King Solomon's Mine, 500g
t16 Barringer, 100g
t19 Kilimanjaro, 100g

t18 settled Solomon's mine (Barcelona)
t27 settled Barringer for crazy science bonus (4g 6sc 8f)
t38 founded Catholicism: pagodas, church property (+2g/city)
t42 opened Piety
t44 Pyramids (in Barcelona, like all the other wonders)
t56 enhanced: mosques, rel texts
t64 Great Lighthouse
t82 Sacred Sites
t87 National College (also in BCN)
t113 Oracle
t121 lost Petra which I was building in Seville (Barringer Crater city)
t126 Liberty finisher -> GAdm
t130 Astronomy
t165 won

Fun fact: I had a scout in Santiago when I gifted it to the Chinese, and he happily sat there for the rest of the game (visible in the final screenshot).
 
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Cultural victory turn 187

This was a comically peaceful game, focused almost entirely on infrastructure and wonders. I built three scouts, an archer and two caravels the whole game (with the exception of the 6 foreign legion late in the game that I wiped Germany out with - he kept settling in between Madrid and Barcelona (King Solomon's Mines site)). I did DoW Germany and the Inca a few times for peace deals.
So you got Machu from the Inca in a peace deal, I assume? Did they just offer it to you even though you had no army to speak of?

Man I have to start doing that (DOWing AI without actually intending to fight them). No wonder you always pull off such awesome win times :)
 
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That’s right. The location was great and I took it over without firing a shot! Economic strength has a big impact on peace deals. In a trial run with Spain I had Cerra Potosi in Madrid, and early on the AI would offer all their GPT for peace.

Great strategy with the Liberty GA and Sacred sites combo by the way!
 
Thanks guys! I still think I could have won much faster. The GAdm only spawned about 5 turns before Astronomy, it is slower than Caravels, and has a limited field of view.

Having 4 puppeted cities slowed down my cultural policies by a lot, but I didn't really think of that while conquering. Also I could have prioritized culture more. Or even try for the GAdm before SS, but then there would be a chance of losing SS to someone else...
 
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Won at turn 218.
I played well the first 100 turns but not happy with turn 100 onwards.
My plan was to culturally overtake Rome and Korea, and wipe out the other civs.
But I didn't execute this plan correctly, I focused too much on infrastructure. My army was 5 crossbows and a few conquistadores. They took China out (who had Korean capital which I kept). But getting to the final cities of Egypt and Babylon was hard, they were between mountains and jungle, blocking my 3 range. This took sooo many turns. I should have focussed on army and didn't. I bet that my few units could wipe everything and I lost that bet.
In the end I decided to make peace because I had 2 settlers and 4 musicians ready to bulb culture bomb them. Turns out after making peace they didn't want to give me open borders and my musicians couldn't do concert tour... So I had to wait the last turns out.

I'm not sure my plan was a good plan, and the execution was even worse.

Nice times of the other players!
 
CV turn 145.

Overall, the game went well, but in some places I did not have enough luck, and in some places I did not play perfectly, I think it is possible to improve the result of turns by 5.

Initially, I wanted to try something different from SS, but I didn't succeed. I just don't understand how you can play with 4-5 cities on a continent where you can build 20 cities :) On the 5th turn, thanks to the ruins, I had to accept the 1st institute and I chose the tradition, but after exploring the continent, I realized that I definitely needed liberty. I found King Solomon's Mines on turn 7 (500), Kilimanjaro on 9 (100) and Barringer crater at 17 (100). Barcelona was founded on 15 turn, quickly made a shrine for the pantheon, a monument, a granary and then started spamming Wonders. In Madrid, after 3 scouts, a worker, a monument and a granary, it was possible to spam settlers without being distracted by anything else. The only thing that hindered the emergence of new cities was the restrictions on happiness.
I founded the 3rd city near Kilimanjaro, near Barringer crater only the 6th, because I was greatly hampered by the barbarian camp to the north of it. I even had to buy an archer in Madrid. This delayed religion a little (45 turn) and its strengthening (60 turn). I chose one with nature, initiation ceremonies, pagodas, mosques and itinerant preachers.

Bismarck was a great neighbor - he gave me about 5 settlers, about 3 workers and did not build a single city in the wrong place. Exactly on the 100th move, he came under my cultural influence, and around 111 I captured Berlin. After that, he wished me success and good luck)
Inka gave me a couple of workers and a lot of money. About turn 60, he suddenly offered me a declaration of friendship, thanks to which I could take money from him without war, thereby he bought himself 50 turns of peace. He had 3 cities in total, of which Cusco was the northernmost. On 118 turn, I took one of his cities for peace, and on 129 turn I started the last war and captured the remaining 2 cities.

I thought that with such a start I would be able to build all the wonders in the game. What for? I don't know, but I tried) I even learned IW for Colossus, what I never do anything at all. But in Barcelona, more necessary wonders were being built, and in Madrid I made an additional 2-3 settlers before I started building the Colossus. As a result, I was outpaced when I built about a third (about 80 turn). In Salamanca, I was 7-8 turns late with the MoM (about 90), and in Toledo I was 4-5 turns late with the Terracotta Army (before 95). I didn't learn the Great Wall, and I just couldn't build the Statue of Zeus.
Apart from these 5 wonders, I built all the others. In Barcelona - ToA, Stonehenge, Great Library, Great Lighthouse, Oracle (85), Hanging Gardens, Parthenon (104), Chichen Itza (106, I learned CS at 101 turn, but remembered about the sleeping Engineer only after 4 moves) and the Great Mosque of Djenne. In Cordoba - Pyramids (86), in Seville - Petra (105), Hagia Sophia and Machu Picchu (143), in Toledo - Angor-Wot (144). in Madrid, Borobudur (130).

By turn 100, I had only 13 cities and 3 setters. After the meritocracy, the number of cities increased to 17-18 and I was also able to afford to capture AI cities. By the way, I really enjoyed capturing cities without loss of population and without riots).
In total, at the end of the game, I had 24 cities, of which 20 I built myself. And exactly 100 tourism.

My Institutes : Tradition (5) - Liberty (10) - Republic - Collective rule (33) - Piety - Organized religion - Religious tolerance -Reformation (85, Oracle) - citizenship - meritocracy - representation (127) - aesthetics (138) - rationalism (143, use writer)

On the 127 turn, I got a Great scientist from liberty and wanted to speed up Astronomy with him, but I didn't have enough 14 bulbs! (-1 turn, i didn't need to teach IW) As a result, I got astronomy on the 128 turn. 3 of my scouts, the Great Prophet from Sofia and 4 pre-made triremes were ready to sail in search of contacts. But around turn 115, I made a gross mistake. I annexed Berlin and bought colosseum for 0 by happy. All I had to do was wait one turn and buy a pagoda instead of colosseum. I thought I would have time to save up money to upgrade the triremes, but I was able to upgrade at 128 turn only 2 triremes, another 1 at 129 t. Moreover, I did not improve the most necessary trireme near Barcelona, I think it cost me 1 or 2 turns. I found China, Korea, Babylon and Egypt by turn 131. The last contact I got with Rome was only on the 134 turn with the help of a scout and a Chinese road. Rome had the strongest culture, My influence on him grew by only 10% per turn, but then it became a little slow. The prophet converted him to my religion on turn 142, in 2 turns the influence grew from 77 to 99, but I had to wait another turn before winning. Of course, I could win this turn by giving him a city for a trade route (or just buy the harbor in Barcelona? I didn't check), but I didn't want to give away my cities :)
 
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CV on turn 315. I did Tradition (plus the Honor opener), Aesthetics, Rationalism, and Freedom, and raced towards Internet and then Radar. I put more emphasis on Rationalism than I did Aesthetics. Honor was in anticipation of going all warmongery late in the game but that never happened. Take Honor really early and it's useful dealing with barbs, then fill in the left side later if you need it.

Played peacefully except an early war with Germany where I captured Berlin then took Cologne in the peace deal. Much later, Bismarck declared war on me and I spanked him hard but didn't capture any cities, then took another big city in the peace deal and burned it down. I think it was Hamburg, and he eventually settled New Hamburg on the east coast.

In the end I had 6 cities, all on my continent. I probably should have annexed Berlin a lot quicker than I did because it had the Great Library. I just had 2 natural wonders, Barringer and KSM; Bismarck very quickly snagged Kilimanjaro. KSM was particularly awesome. There never was an International Games.
 

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Thanks for a great game and congratulations on some impressive results. I had a good run too but was challenged by formidable Egyptians.
Some dates:

circa t8 - Liberty opened.

circa t10 - Discovered King Solomon's Mines (500g) right next to a camp and bought a settler.

circa t13 - Founded Barcelona circa 4 tiles east of Madrid. I didn't think the settler would be able to walk all the way to KSM without being captured by barbarians. Without strong military support the settler wouldn't have been able to settle very close to KSM at all. But this was a big dilemma since growth of Kiev borders was also a threat and the clock was ticking:
GOTM 244 KSM situation.png

In hindsight, the starting warrior should have done everything in his power to eliminate this camp, but maybe one of those powerful axemen was spawned, I don't remember.

t13 (also) - Discovered Barringer Crater (500g). Bought a worker.

t14 - Learned Republic.

t15 - Discovered Kilimanjaro (100g) and bought a settler. This settler would head for the Mines.

t26 - With a little protection from the starting warrior, we settled on the cows near the Mines. As the pic below suggests, we couldn't get the settler closer to KSM:
GOTM 244 KSM situation2.png

By then I only had 48g (gah) and the cash flow had stagnated and there were some nervous turns ahead before we could afford to buy the much-desired tile. Luckily, we became friends with Inca and could trade cash for gpt with them.
Meanwhile Madrid finished the 3 big buildings monument, shrine, granary.

27 - citizenship (the free worker policy) learned - this feels like a mistake because I could have taken a settler. But there was no escort available and barbs were spawned near the Barringer crater. Maybe Barcelona should have built a warrior instead of going straight for the monument, but I just don't like building warriors and usually wait for archers to become available.

33 - Pantheon: Goddess of the Hunt (+1 food from camp). Well, this was a mistake I guess. I had tunnel vision and didn't read the wise words about "OWN" in the announcement thread until it was too late. But "GotH" wasn't an awful pantheon.

36 - Sailing

41 - Collective Rule. Settler would head for Kilimanjaro.

circa 50 - Settled near Kilimanjaro. Completed Great Library and picked Drama and Poetry as free tech. Parthenon, Oracle and writer's guild would be completed relatively soon. But all this meant I did not settle the Barringer Crater. I had built two archers and a warrior, but their main accomplishment was to protect workers, clear a camp for Mogadishu, and protect the Kilimanjaro settler.

circa 77 - Founded Toledo near salt and horses as the last core city. Inca had settled Barringer Crater. I would soon relieve them of the responsibility of its heritage :devil: - such a kindness. As you can see in the t82 mini-map below, my free Great Admiral had started to discover the distant civs by now. The land-locked Babylonians would be last, but their culture was weak so it didn't matter in the long run.
GOTM 244 t 82.png


84 - Opened Piety tree.

100 - Took Machu (Barringer) in a peace deal.
109 - Petra in Cordoba.

110 - Sacred Sites. National College in Madrid. Mistake noticed: No aqueduct in Madrid.

133 - Enhanced Religion. Around this time, all the religious wonders, Sistine chapel and guilds are built. Summary of faith:
GOTM 244 Religion1.png

GOTM 244 Religion2.png


142 - Piety tree complete.

156 - Aesthetics opened.

165 - Berlin captured. This was preceded by a pretty exciting war. It was the choleric Bismarck who declared and he actually got Madrid down to yellow defense at one time, before we started to grind him down. His former holdings would become useful for pagodas and monasteries of course. First theming bonus achieved; this was late because apparently I used a writer for culture boost at some point, probably to make sure I reached sacred sites before Inca. But there was also poor GP generation in Barcelona (no river).

166 - Actually used an inquisitor because of cheeky Incan missionaries.

172 - Bribed Rome to go to war with AI cultural leaders Egypt. This would prove important.

183 - Influential with everyone but Egypt. I sent musicians there but suddenly in t206 they refuse to renew Open Borders. This would have to mean war, for which I was sort of prepared, but my forces weren't that strong and on top of that they had Great Wall:
GOTM 244 Egypt.png

I was unable to take them out, but managed to capture Thebes, take Memphis in the peace deal and resume trade with Heliopolis. After that it took 4 turns to become influential. A ridiculous mistake was made: I sent a missionary to Egypt while the war was still going on, in order to buy a great musician near Egypt. But I forgot to build the town where the musician was supposed to be bought! So by the time the missionary got there the tile where the western-most conquistador was standing in t210 above had come under Egyptian influence and there was no good place to build the town.

205 - Aesthetics tree complete.

217 - Rushed Louvre and got the theming bonus.

227 - Cultural victory. Mixed feelings about how darn long it took and how exciting and fun it was. Those Egyptians...surprised they didn't beat me to Petra, but I guess they prioritized Hanging Gardens.

1714983848826.png

It was the first time I explored seriously with a Great Admiral, which was really fun.
 

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I played this game again with the knowledge of the map.
I "Found" King Solomon's Mines on turn 4, Barringer's Crater on turn 7. Founded Barcelona on 12, Seville on 13. Barringer's Crater almost doubled the science compared to the first game, in which this city was founded 40-50 turns later. I immediately chose liberty, without wasting time on tradition. Free Settler - 4 tcity near Kilimanjaro (31 turn). Strengthened religion on the 49th or 50th turn.
Built an Oracle - closed liberty - took the Grand Admiral on 81 turn. No one on the other continent even had a pantheon, so there was no risk of losing the reformation. I learned CS at 84 (101 in first game). On the 100 turn, I received the last contact (with China) and concluded open borders with all foreigners. On the 104 turn adopted the reformation - 44 tourism / turn.
Won on 118 turn. 24 cities, including Hamburg, Tiwanaku and Berlin, but did not had time to capture Cusco, 70 tourism / turn.
 
I played it again and shaved about 50 turns off. I found all the wonders same as before, in about the same number of turns and first to discover 2 of them again, but this time I managed to beat Bismarck and Pachuti to Kilimanjaro with a settler. They were both headed there and I had to block an escorted German settler using a scout; he still settled a city closeby, but out of position and I was able to settle 4 tiles away from his city and claim the wonder. The culture from Kilimanjaro let me fill the Aesthetics policy tree before opening Rationalism.

There were crappy German cities really in the way, and Bismarck built a few wonders that I wanted (Colossus, Pyramids, and one other that I don't remember), so I was tempted to take him out, but if I had done that maybe folks would stop trading open borders with me.

No wars this time, until very late when Rome declared war and tried to take a city I settled in his continent. That city had walls and a castle and was about 70 strong, had an ironclad nearby, and I spent all my gold on an infantry which brought the city strength to 90. I one-shotted the Roman units with the city bombardment and killed a few with the infantry and the ironclad, until he'd had enough and was willing to pay me for peace. Meanwhile Beijing revolted and joined the Spanish empire; I almost liberated it but I was on the verge of winning and I didn't remember how much culture China had when she was eliminated. I did lose a worker that Rome stole on the first turn of the war, but no other casualties.

Kudos to Vadalaz for another fun game. Having 3 natural wonders but none that give faith (unless you take One With Nature) was a nice touch.
 
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Turn 248 finish. Found two natural wonders first and settled them quickly. I don't feel like I played a very optimized game, just built two other great cities on the wonders and built a ton of wonders. Won a few turns after getting internet. Could probably do things a lot faster if I prioritized archaeology or went for sacred sites.
 

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