The Cold War Deluxe; 1950-1991

Hi El Justo: Well, when I got SDI I still could not build any space parts. But I did some checking in the game and game editor. It turns out that to build space parts you need the small wonder Advanced Missle Defence. This wonder can be built by a Nuclear Club member, and the tech required is Ceremonial Burial, which everybody has to start the game. But you also need a Solar plant in the city in order to build Advanced Missle Defence. I did not build any Solar Plants, since I had Nuclear Plants (100% extra output vs 50% extra output). So hence, not able to build AMD, and without AMD, no space ship parts, and no Space Race win.

So a couple things suggestions, IMHO:
1. Kill the requirement for Solar Plants to build AMD. Make AMD something that is tech dependent only, and much higher on the tech tree.
2. In a grander scale, get rid of Space Race victory entirely. Seems too easy for the U.S to win that way. Plus, unless the U.S. has been very sucessful at keeping a big, big secret, I don't think anybody has built a starship yet in 2005, let alone 1989.

I think I may tweak the rules, and see if the U.S. is more agressive in the game, if it can't win through Space Race. One thing which surprised me in my both games playing Canada and WP, was the pacifity of the U.S. In my game as WP, by turn 200, the U.S. had a huge advantage in military might (2-1 in military units overall, 4-1 advantage in armour) compared to the WP. But the U.S. did not launch a single invasion. Even, poor defenceless Cuba was left alone all game by the U.S., which stunned me, even after I cranked up the temperature in Miami early in the game with the tactical nukes stationed in Cuba.

I am sure that the game would be far more entertaining if I could entice the A.I. to start cranking out invasion forces supported by Nimitz battlegroups, but the A.I. did not even build one Nimitz carrier. Had three Forrestal carriers, and as far as I can see, they were all stationed in ports.

I have played a lot of Civ III, and agreee with the many many comments that state the AI sucks, especially at amphibious invasions, but if the AI could not win at Space race, maybe it would be more active.

Anyway, just my humble thoughts.

BTW, is Klyden still looking for players for the PBEM game?

silver69 said:

3. When you have a right of passage agreement with a nation can your troops move thru theirs. example in my game greece blocks the entrance to the Med and the french fleet has to go aroound the long way thru suez. can it be implemented into scenario where with right of passage you can share same space/hex as allies?

Click to expand...

it cannot be done

maybe in civ4

I_Batman,

good to hear from you again...Klyden hasn't yet responded to the invite but yeah, we do have some open spots.

i believe the warsaw pact, china/india, the ME and Israel/Iran/Pakistan (i know...that's one carzy alliance) positions are still available.

@krazydude
iirc, you said that you'd be any civ. this is correct?

yes el justo! any civ will do

A way to get the ai to conduct naval operations is to drastically increase the movement rates of ships. They will invade... they will suck at it, but they will do it.

No I had rare case of the U.S. being invaded. Course it was in Alasks but they poured in almost 30 units, which I bombed to a pulp

Sorry I have not been around much, but I have actually been busy with work (which is a good thing belive it or not) and another project (not related to Civ) as well.

I am up for a PBEM game, although I have not done one.

I Batman, I would be interested to know what setting you were playing the game on. I have not played as the US much in my games. As an enemy, they have not been the most active of positions, but I have had them bomb the crap out of me on a regular basis and they also seem to like to build subs. I have seen some of the more advance carriers, empty, chasing down my subs. They have yet not to take out Cuba, although the time has varied greatly in the games I have played. An actual invasion for them seems to be something the AI won't try out that much although I have seen Brazil invade Africa, Canada invade North Africa, and the WP invade the UK, so it is happening.

While increasing the speed on the merchants might make the AI be a bit more active with invading, I have a tendancy to think that is a poor trade off for what the human will do with that same advantage with transports. Right now, you can't invade very far away and have to often take your chances with enemy subs and air when you do. The AI certainly knows full well where enemy transports lurk and loves to bomb the crap out of them if they are not well defended.

What do you mean you don't have one?

I am up for a PBEM game

Click to expand...

which civ do you prefer?

warsaw pact, china/india, the ME or Israel/Iran/Pakistan

Me I already told you America All the way.

Klyden said:

Sorry I have not been around much, but I have actually been busy with work (which is a good thing belive it or not) and another project (not related to Civ) as well.

I am up for a PBEM game, although I have not done one.

I Batman, I would be interested to know what setting you were playing the game on. I have not played as the US much in my games. As an enemy, they have not been the most active of positions, but I have had them bomb the crap out of me on a regular basis and they also seem to like to build subs. I have seen some of the more advance carriers, empty, chasing down my subs. They have yet not to take out Cuba, although the time has varied greatly in the games I have played. An actual invasion for them seems to be something the AI won't try out that much although I have seen Brazil invade Africa, Canada invade North Africa, and the WP invade the UK, so it is happening.

While increasing the speed on the merchants might make the AI be a bit more active with invading, I have a tendancy to think that is a poor trade off for what the human will do with that same advantage with transports. Right now, you can't invade very far away and have to often take your chances with enemy subs and air when you do. The AI certainly knows full well where enemy transports lurk and loves to bomb the crap out of them if they are not well defended.

Click to expand...

Hi Klyden:

I have played Canada at Emperor, and WP at Deity. I am in the midst of my second game doing WP, Deity. In all three cases, the AI does the typical AI dumb stuff. Yes, the U.S. loves its B-52's and B1-B's, and occasionally F-111's, and bombs the crap out of the WP as much as possible. Went 175 turns in first game, and U.S. was totally tame outside of bombings. Playing Canada, sat astride a third of the world when I stopped playing. Amphibious warfare I saw was me and someone razed two far east WP cities. In game two, regading amphibious warfare, saw UK take Rabat. Went 200 turns into that one. That was it for amphibious invasions. In both cases, US built a ton of Sturgeon class subs, and pounded cities with those, but never landed troops.
Looks like the U.S. is not interested in invasions, since they built no Marines.

In my current game, (at turn 92) I have sat back as WP and let the AI go nuts. Brazil just wiped out Argentina, and following turn unsuccessfully attacked Cuba, so I think you are right about short jumps by the AI.

And like you, in this third game, I have seen some carrier action by the U.S.
They sent 3 Forrestal's to hammer the WP far East. Unfortunately, I had to sink them with Bear's before I could sort out how loaded they were with aircraft. I know there were at least a few fighter's on board. What floored me that of the three carriers, only one had escorts. Dumb, dumb AI.

I agree that altering movement for ships is not the best idea. In fact, in a perfect world where we would all have Cray's at home, I would like to see bigger oceans, same movement rate, to more closely emulate the true hide and go seek of sub warfare.

Guess the only way to have the two super-powers really face off is have human players on both sides, given the Civ III AI.

And yes, like you, I have not done a PBEM, but would like to give it a try. El Justo has been talking about it, using I believe your 8 civ modification. I would like to give this a try. I have played about 5 of the mod's from the site, and this one is the most fun. I

- On a bit of a tangent; I’ve seen two different nationalities units on the same tile in my game.

France captured Dresden and deployed two F100 Super Sabres' and a Dassault Mirage (i think) on the airbase next door, on top of two German Leopard 1's. Strange!

- Also, prompted solely by nationalistic fervour, i would like to see the Royal Marines at least equivalent to USMC. Primarily because my paternal grandfather was a Royal Marine during the war and I’m biased.

- While I’m on the subject shouldn't Britain's Special Forces unit be the Special Air Service as technically all Royal Marines are Commandos except those involved in combat support. If they have to be amphibious then perhaps they could be Special Boat Service (like your Navy Seals).

- On the subject of turn times (which we're not). I have managed to mitigate the problem of unit build up on my game by reducing the size of the alliances to two (WP/Cuba/Yugoslavia vs. NATO/Australia/Japan/SE Asia). This has resulted in almost perpetual warfare which i appreciate is entirely against the reality of the Cold War (by definition "Cold") but has kept it ticking along nicely.

I have a degree in History and have always loved the Cold war. I think it's the exercise of power without the context of open warfare that intrigues me, what today is usually referred to as "soft" power. Something America used to have in bucket loads before this administration threw it out with the bath water.

Anyway, polemic over, I’ll go back to bombing now... damn I love those B52's

IvorEd

Drivebymaster said:

Allright how many is that?
Me
El Justo (I think)
Klyden (I think)
BlackbirdSR-71
Esteban

And add to the list if you can

Ohh got bored again

BORED AGAIN CLICK ME

Click to expand...

El Justo said:

which civ do you prefer?

warsaw pact, china/india, the ME or Israel/Iran/Pakistan

Click to expand...

Is that the same game ? If so, put me up for the crazy Isreal/Iran/Pakistan alliance !

Esteban,

you got it.

okay...there's 2 spots open for the PBEM game.

SEATO (Australie/NZ/SE Asia) & the ME. i changed my mind and decided to be china/india

I_Batman,

would you want one of those 2 remaining civs for the PBEM?

EDIT: it appears that there's just one civ left...SEATO. let me know. i have your email, too.

lastly, here is a shot of some extra terrain stuff i've been toying w/ for the Vietnam spinoff.

it's Route 1!

El Justo: Do you have any idea when the Vietnam one will be available? Also, any idea when we can start the PBEM?

Keep up the good work!

El Justo said:

I_Batman,

would you want one of those 2 remaining civs for the PBEM?

EDIT: it appears that there's just one civ left...SEATO. let me know. i have your email, too.

Click to expand...

Yeah I was about to point out that the ME is actuall Iran/Isrea;/Pakistan My email is pbg82@hotmail.com, so let's start this asap ! I just can't wait

okay...we're ready to go.

I_Batman has agreed to play as SEATO.

i'll figure out the particulars, gather the emails and send it out.

just to confirm:

USA - Drivebymaster
WP - Klyden
China/India - me
S America - krazydude
Africa - Viper275
Euro - Blackbird SR-71
SEATO - I_Batman
Esteban - Israel/Pak/Iran

El Justo said:

okay...we're ready to go.

I_Batman has agreed to play as SEATO.

i'll figure out the particulars, gather the emails and send it out.

just to confirm:

USA - Drivebymaster
WP - Klyden
China/India - me
S America - krazydude
Africa - Viper275
Euro - Blackbird SR-71
SEATO - I_Batman
Esteban - Israel/Pak/Iran

Click to expand...

Looking forward to this. Only human I have played is a buddy of mine, who unfortuantely does not like playing scenarios. Should be fun. Guess I better sharpen up my naval/amphibious skills playing a civ like SEATO.
Gotta teach my pilots to swim.