WW2-Global

I have just started the new German special game at SID level and have reached turn 2. I have managed to take Warsaw, Danzig, and Copenhagen, but I did lose a couple of tanks and a few infantry division. That's alright though. Having said that, I am sure I will have some problems invading France because of their much larger cities and more powerful units. Not to mention they have British air cover in the northen parts. I have vowed to play this the way Hitler player out the war. So no attacking Turkey or Spain or any other country that was not attacked by Germany (at least as long as I deal with Britain, France, and USSR - after that it doesn't matter). I got Adolf Hitler as the military leader produced by one of my elite infantries. Looks like he'll personally lead the attack into France. I am not sure - but did Germany attack Norway and Sweden? I read somewhere that they took over Norway or something like that. If they did I'll attack Norway. France sent in a truck load of tanks and infantry as usual. The tanks have been dealt with (I think there were about 20). The border cities have been reinforces with all my infantry and all the units that need to heal. I won't be able to assault Paris till I have atleast 15 Panzer IIIes anyways. So we are gonna have the phoney war now, at least on my part I won't attack. Boy I am gonna have to get used to losing a lot of units now because of no armies.

(Rocoteh: I feel silly when asking this, but I don't know a lot of the acronyms used in this website. What does OOB stand for?)
 
eaglefox: OOB is wargame-speak for Order of Battle. ;) Which is the list of units that each side starts with at the beginning of a scenario.

Grizx: Yes, I agree, there are still several countries I've yet to play too, that is the beauty of it. I was a muffin head and put my Forbiddien City out somewhere in Central Asia(Astrabad?). It is east of Chelyabinsk on the main rail line anyway. I put the hidden palace between there and Moscow in one of those little cities in the Forest, I could kick myself for that. :blush: There were definitely better places to put it, but corruption/waste is not a huge issue in this scenario.

I don't think the order you build things is a big deal for Soviets, since you get as much time as you want to build up peacefully. One thing I would mention regarding infrastructure is to chop down the forests BEFORE you build the railroads; I did not realize that was a mistake for a while. A stack of 10 workers will chop the trees in 1 turn, and build the rail line in 2, which was fine for me.

I've yet to see a lot of combat, so don't have a lot to say yet about their units. The mech corps is next to useless though; compare it to a T-34/76. Your air units to start are woeful except maybe for the I-16s. I use the bombers for recon though. The Pe-8 is expensive but stupendous! Range AND power, what a combo! I also like the KV-1s for defense so about 40% of my tanks are those. I just started a war with the Axis after Italy left when I asked them to leave my territory,so I will have some more comments soon I imagine. I wiped out 45+ Axis units in my territory, including about 30 Pz IIIg, so it is going to be "interesting" to see what Germany does next.
 
eaglefox said:
I have just started the new German special game at SID level and have reached turn 2. I have managed to take Warsaw, Danzig, and Copenhagen, but I did lose a couple of tanks and a few infantry division. That's alright though. Having said that, I am sure I will have some problems invading France because of their much larger cities and more powerful units. Not to mention they have British air cover in the northen parts. I have vowed to play this the way Hitler player out the war. So no attacking Turkey or Spain or any other country that was not attacked by Germany (at least as long as I deal with Britain, France, and USSR - after that it doesn't matter). I got Adolf Hitler as the military leader produced by one of my elite infantries. Looks like he'll personally lead the attack into France. I am not sure - but did Germany attack Norway and Sweden? I read somewhere that they took over Norway or something like that. If they did I'll attack Norway. France sent in a truck load of tanks and infantry as usual. The tanks have been dealt with (I think there were about 20). The border cities have been reinforces with all my infantry and all the units that need to heal. I won't be able to assault Paris till I have atleast 15 Panzer IIIes anyways. So we are gonna have the phoney war now, at least on my part I won't attack. Boy I am gonna have to get used to losing a lot of units now because of no armies.

(Rocoteh: I feel silly when asking this, but I don't know a lot of the acronyms used in this website. What does OOB stand for?)

eaglefox,

OOB = Order of Battle.

Thank you for the report.
German forces invaded Norway and Denmark April 9, 1940.
Sweden was never attacked.

I really appreciate feedback and playtest-reports on this special
AI-version since I assume it must be fine-tuned.

Its possible that its now to hard to play against AI.

Rocoteh

Link to download of the special AI version:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2705773#post2705767
 
Rocoteh,

I feel compelled to defend the basic scenario in its current form as you have developed it. Sure, there are minor things that can be adjusted here and there, and there may yet be some good ideas for making the AI better in the basic scenario. But in the big essentials I beleive you have the scenario about right.

There are a couple of suggestions I have read in recent posts that concern me a bit as I think they could well unbalance the scenario.

Railroads. I accept that the rail system in the game engine is not what it could be. But you have developed the scenario to his point with a very good balance, I think. Although not totally realistic, I beleive the current role of railroads is very, very good and contributes a great deal to playability of the game. To further nerf railroads would be a mistake in my opinion.

The scenario has grown and developed with the existing rail system and to change it much would be to unnecessarily modify a core compontent of the existing game balance.

City Anti-Air Defense Improvemnts. I too have experienced losing lots of bombers to City anti-air defenses. My first reaction was to get angry and throw things at the computer and to think this needed to be changed.

However, on reflection, I have realized that the strong city anti-air defense plays a big role in forcing palyers to rely on something more than just an uber air force to win. For example, my in last Brtiain game I had a big air force. I must admit that my armed forces were probably unbalanced with too much air power. This worked while I was fighting the Russians and Japanese in the open, but the Germans were well defended in their cities. I could not bomb them into defeat. I had to use artillery,infantry, and tanks. This is good. A lopsided force with just an uber air force should not be able to win. I could still use my bombers to hit tile improvements and to take out roads and rail to isolate objectives (after I had defeated the German fighter force), but I avoided air attacks on cities where my bombers would get decimated. Again, this is good. So I built more armor and then moved in with my artillery and tanks, with air in support. Again this is good. In the real world, Berlin was not taken with air power. Air power was critical, but not in and of itself, decisive.

I do acknowledge that the AI's tend to lose most of their bomnbers by mindlessly bombing cities with city air defense improvments. But on balance, I think it is better to deter human players from relying too much on uber air forces. I would recoomend leaving the strong city air defenses as they are. It makes for a better game and forces human players to build a combined arms military.

Again, these ar just my opinons and others may have legitimate counter-arguments.

Now for a very minor adjustment suggestion. You might consider stating the British CV's in the British isles at Birmingham. From where they start now,(Edinburgh and Belfast I think) the AI sends them on the first turn straight into the North Sea with a minimal escort where they get sunk right away. I think that by starting them at Birmingham the AI might not do this stupid move.

I will be away for the rest of this month and unable to play or post. I will be back in May, so please don't interpret my absence as loss of interest.

I have started a 1.8 SID Germany game and so far the changes you have made for 1.8 appear to be very good. I am going to suffer bad withdrawal symptoms for a while. I may get to post one game report before I go, but if not I will on my return.

Thanks again for all your hard work on this great scenario.

Grizx
 
Grizx,

Thank you for your comments.
I will have them in mind when working on version 1.9.

I think you maybe right when you say that the current balance with
regard to railroads and city anti-air defense is good.
I understand from many playtest-reports that I have read that bombing
a city taking heavy losses can be frustrating.
However if one consider the alternative: Cities bombed to ruins after 3-4 turns
of airstrikes the current system is better.

Notes have been taken on the British CV:s. I will change the starting
positions for them.

Welcome back with more posts when you are home again.

Rocoteh
 
Germany vs AI SID:
Not much to report yet, only in my 3rd turn. I have managed to destroy five British battleships, 2 British battlecruisers, a few british light cruisers, and 2 french battlecruisers at the cost of 95% of my initial sub fleet, two heavy cruisers and 2 S-boat flotilla. I made a silly mistake when I forgot that the S-boat flotillas have only three movement points.:sad: Oh well. The AI stupidity with aircrafts and ships continues - nothing anyone can do about it though. French have a lot of forces on the mainland. They keep moving almost their whole force into my territory and then out again for no apparent reason. They totally refuse to attack my cities with their infantry, which is good in a way cause they will have some defense left when I attack them. But they end up losing a few forces everytime they cross. The French are now at war with Turkey again, although usually the Italians also declare war on Turkey right after, but they haven't this time.
1) I did mention this in an earlier post - maybe you should remove all the subs that the minor nations have. It doesn't matter whether they have it or not because they are the basic subs and are mostly conscript anyways. Removing them will definitely decrease the chances of unhistorical wars.
2) Shouldn't there be mountains on top of Spain all through the French border. I always thought there were.
3) If we go to the editor - Rules - Civilizations - and in that section check the box that says Build Often Artillery units, will it force the AI to make more artillery forces? I have seen the AI sometimes bring out its artillery units to attack cities in the Napoleon scenario, and was wondering if its the number of artillery units that influences the AIs decision whether to use them in an offensive way or not.
4) I think artillery units should be capturable.
5) I think Sicily should be moved one square in the North-West direction. Its way too close to Tunis.
 
eaglefox,

Thank you for the report and comments.

1. However it will also reduce flavour.

2. It have always been first priority that cities shall not starve,
but I think I can add mountains and still avoid that.

3. It will sometimes increase AI production of artillery. However its since a long
time documented that AI can not handle artillery in a relevant way.
Thus this is a problem in all scenarios which includes artillery-units.

4. I will consider it.

5. In 1.9 it will be linked to the mainland.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh
 
Well, I've started up a 1.8 SID game as Soviets, and I think I'd put down some notes, let you know what's going on.

Right now I'm sitting at Week 19, 1940, and the game is the least active I've yet seen. So far, the Italians have been largely defeated in Africa (only Tobruk left), the Germans have captured Mainland France (Brest and Marsailles razed, Paris captured early with 25 pop, usually germans have to bomb it down to one). Japan isn't doing nearly as well in asia as they usually do, having taken *many* turns to capture Hong Kong, and other than a few island cities and Pushing the Chinese back to the mountians, not much else has changed. There does seem to be some back and forth near Bangladesh however, with Thailand elimated (Bangkok razed) and Rangoon, Hanoi, & Nakon Ratchasima controlled by Japanese.

The AI does seem to be building somewhat more sensible forces in 1.8, with lots of transports with 6 units in them, (SS Inf, US Marines, ect...) Escorted by Bismarks, BBs, and the occasional Destroyer flotilla. Germany has worn down its forces to Me109s and about 5 other bombers, which probably explains why paris was captured with so many people. The US also managed to capture the Kurile Islands with an amphabious landing early on, which suprised me.

Other things of note: Germans have taken Copenhagen, Spain and portugal haven't been attacked by anyone, but somehow the Germans have captured Gibraltar, (amphib or moving through spain, don't quite know) Japanese have captured Davao, Fakfak, and Sarmi, but lost Sarmi soon after capture. French still control south Vietnam (Hue & Saigon). China still has three mountian cities and Kunming left. There has been relatively little city razing so far, but that might be because so little has changed hands. AI Razed cities so far: Amsterdam, Brest, Tripoli, Tekro, & Bangkok. All of the other small Europan civs are untouched. I would guess the same for S.America, haven't been watching, but nothing seems to have happened.

As for me, I captured all of Communist China within the first 10 turns or so, just barely beating Japan the Yenan, and I am 2/3 of the way through Turkey, which is a real though nut to crack with all of the new fortresses and units on mountian terrain. It's been mostly take city, heal everything, repeat. Other than that it's been almost exclusively infrestructure, with my cities producing nothing but workers for the first 7-10 turns, then moving to buildings. I now have 350 workers improving the countryside, with my cities starting to finish up factories, moving on to heavy arty when finished. After I finish with Turkey, I'll probably move onto Sweden and Norway.

So, overall, fun game so far, with the axis seeming to have some problems, especially the Japanese. I have a suspicion that the British are going to start to overpower them in SE Asia, especially once they beat the Italians in Africa.

More updates as things progress. (if you want them, of course)
 
Silver,

Thank you for the report.

"Japan isn't doing nearly as well in asia as they usually do, having taken *many* turns to capture Hong Kong, and other than a few island cities and Pushing the Chinese back to the mountians, not much else has changed." Silver

However it seems (from this and other reports) that China for some reason
have problems with Japan in version 1.8. If I interprete your report right
China have lost 6 cities to Japan.

"The AI does seem to be building somewhat more sensible forces in 1.8, with lots of transports with 6 units in them, (SS Inf, US Marines, ect...)" Silver

That is positive.

"AI Razed cities so far: Amsterdam, Brest, Tripoli, Tekro, & Bangkok." Silver

Reports on city-razing are very interesting. None of the cities you mention
had Wonders. It seems like Wonders stop razing 95% of the time.
If this estimate is right or not can only be decided with more reports
on city-razing.

"I now have 350 workers improving the countryside, with my cities starting to finish up factories, moving on to heavy arty when finished. After I finish with Turkey, I'll probably move onto Sweden and Norway." Silver

That is an impressing worker-force!

This is an interesting playtest and I am looking forward to follow it.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

Link to download:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2705773#post2705767
 
What's the assault on the Gleiwitz radio station you're always talking about, Adler?
 
eaglefox,

How in the world did you sink so many British BB's and battlecruisers so quickly? What did you use to sink them? And what were your losses like.

I know what you mean about the E-0boats. I forgot about the range and lost mine too.

Grizx
 
Grizx: He mentioned that he lost 95% os his starting U-Boats, not surprising considering he was hunting "big game".

Rocoteh: I was not going to post again so soon, but have run into a problem. I just researched the tech for Mech Corps 1941, and I can build them in my cities, but I can't upgrade the 1939 units! I am going to see if I can upgrade them in the various palaces, but am I missing something? :confused: The pedia I am using says they can be upgraded, but I am using one of the versions modified by other players.
 
Sasebo, eaglefox

Sorry I missed the part where the losses were listed. Still, that's pretty good and probably worth the cost.

Grizx
 
Grizx said:
eaglefox,

How in the world did you sink so many British BB's and battlecruisers so quickly? What did you use to sink them? And what were your losses like.

I know what you mean about the E-0boats. I forgot about the range and lost mine too.

Grizx

I don't know how many subs Germany starts with at the start of the scenario, but I had 11 subs remaining at the end of the turn (that's more like 85% loses, i think - not 95%). I also lost two S-boat flotillas, and 2 Heavy cruisers. I used the two german battleships to sink two british battlecruisers, and then I threw all my sub force at the british battleships, british light cruisers (5 of 'em, i think), 2 british heavy cruisers, and the two french battlecruisers.
 
Grizx said:
Sasebo, eaglefox

Sorry I missed the part where the losses were listed. Still, that's pretty good and probably worth the cost.

Grizx
It definitely is worth the cost. The way I see it, Germany can rebuild its entire sub fleet in the few turns without even bothering to allot any production time to them. British AI on the other hand, will never have so many battleships again simply because they don't build them.
 
Great Britain Emperor v. 1.8
1941 Report

We had ended 1940 in control of Africa, Turkey and Italy with our target Bordeaux to allow easier movement of Canadian and UK troops. Soviet Russia had declared war near the end of the year but we had repulsed most attacks.

Throught the first few months of 1941 we were dealing with Russian attacks near Meshed and Trabzon. We pushed them back and took Khiva. War with Russia ended by week 11 and we refocused back on our European offensive on Germany.

Combining Mobile Artillery, air power and Matildas we eventually broke through and took Marseilles and Bordeaus. From that point on we poured in units and ground down the Germans. The Russians took Norway in the meantime. We helped the French take more cities in China (actually the French took four cities with our airpower in support.

We finished off the Germans at week 41 and the Italians at week 42. We had expected the Russians to get into the mix as the Germans weakened but no war with the Russians until week 43.

Our force was now so powerful that in the last nine weeks of the year we took drove the Russians back and now hold Leningrad, Stalingrad and a line in front of Moscow. The Russians counterattacked in China and took all the French cities. We held them back and just started counterattacking and have taken two Chinese cities.

In the meantime we have been pushing back the Japanese who have lost the Phillipines (the Americans took one city and also have taken the Kurile Islands). We hold everything south of the Phillipines except for the four Dutch cities.

With Comets on line we have a definitive advantage and it is only a matter of time until we finish off the game.

A few observations -

Emperor is now too easy for me as Great Britain.

The Americans have stacks of 25-40 continously exploring the ice barrier. I suggest you consider removing the radar or lookout towers - somehow they feel ownership of them and they are wasting units that running up and down the ice. Most strange!

I support removing armies from future versions - unnecessary advantage for humans.

Japan seems much weaker in this game - never took all the Chinese cities.

A note to other players - if necessary give your allies needed resources - they are your allies and it will pay off!

I will finish this off and give your AI German game a try. Must say I was hoping for something that did not interfere with the OOB. Perhaps you should consider ramping up some of the unit generating wonders for the AI - that way we have the correct starting OOB but the AI gets some production advantages - as in the Civil War scenario. Just an idea!
 
Bob1475,

The US forces were exploring the ice barrier and the arctic wastes of Canada well before Rocoteh put the outposts in. I suggested he put them in to see if they would cut down on the wild goose chases in the arctic. Both the British and Amercian navies were also heading for the arctic in the early game. In fact the US AI regularly sent the enitre US Atlantic fleet up towards Hudson Bay.

From what I have seen so far, the outposts do tend to stop the US and British AI's from sending their navies into acrctic Canada. It is too bad it does not also seem to work for ground forces. But given that it does seem to work with the naval forces I would tend to leave the outposts there. At least I am positive they are not the cause of US arctic exploration.

I suspect the US needs more transports or a transport wonder - it might be worth trying and I think Rocoteh is looking into it.. I think the ground forces are just trying to find a land route to Europe or Asia.

Grizx
 
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