GOTM 46 First Spoiler - end of ancient age.

Egypt were ery slow coming around the choke in my game, and when they did, it was to settle the dyes so they veered away from Spain. I don't think they met ever in my game, but then again Spain was eliminated pretty early.
I know I took a huge gamble on attacking Spain so early, mostly because I've tried exactly the same thing in a lot of previous gotms and a few hundred years later, I am the one biting the dust

This is my first emperor and GOTM, so I was just hoping to survive. I didn't expand too fast, but then Spain and Egypt engaged in a 1500 year war in the desert north of my starting position. I built up my military and captured all the Spanish cities and Egypt's city next to the iron. I have to say it wouldn't have been possible without the help of Egypt and Spain completely destroying each other. They must have had over 30 units slaughtered each

ainwood said:

You're right - and about the cause as well. Bonus settler instead of bonus worker. Sorry about that....

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Anyway - in that game I belive that's fully possible to quickly outrun Spain before the AI get any advantage of this. In fact in my game ( one with problems - but this is another thing ... ) I conquered Barcelona after building just 3 JW ( and nothing else ) so it's in my advantage that Barcelona was founded so fast. Spain even didn't manage to build any other city !!

Regards

I'm a wuss and this is my first GOTM attempt so I choose Conquest. 1st city where I am, quickly spot Barce and Thebes, granary in capital and make babies for coastal cities since lots of water and gold. Spain does not like this but I just hold them off and beg for peace.

Along comes Iron working and guess what, no iron for me Head for Monarchy, irrigate lots, chop down jungle, making 7 cities in all. Throw Jags at Spain, trigger Golden Age take one city but not the one I want with the iron. Run out of units and make peace, using Golden Age to complete Great Library.

End Golden Age, Egypt are now threatening, but grovel some more while I build try to build Archers, free techs to Middle Ages...

And still no bloody IRON!!!

So, how many bows and arrows does it take to break a city wall?

Criptonite said:

So, how many bows and arrows does it take to break a city wall?

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Units can't break city walls. Use some catapults. Even if you fail in breaking the walls, it's likely that you get some enemy defenders weakened.

Regarding holding Egypt at a choke: I did it mostly because I wanted to hold their expansion into my land, trade benefits weren't a goal (even if there were some).

maybe it would be better for them to meet and fight each other? Dunno. But my town on the choke point proved crucial later as it had the Iron.

It looks like I got bit by the Curse of the 100k. I tried that again, basic strategy being to set up a few wonder pre-builds, on a small map maybe the difference would give me an advantage. Well, the Spanish and the Egyptians were settling in my face in no time. Being a builder so early meant I had few units, and I failed to block the chokepoints. The extra AI settlers were a tough surprise, things might've turned out differently without that, but I can't complain on that point, everyone dealt with the same thing.

1000BC stats: 4 towns, 15 pop, 5 Jags... you get the point. Probably my worst ever!
My next plan was to build jags to upgrade to swords, but hold off on the GA until I could get a second core going, which would allow me to continue building Jags without unhooking the iron. I had built up a force of 9 out of 10 swordsmen in my stunted empire, and two turns before I was to attack the Spanish and capture some core cities, the 'polite' Egyptians sneak-attacked me, triggering an unwanted GA in 370BC. Most of my forces were destroyed just trying to hang on to what I had. I lost spices, hung on to the iron town even though the iron got pillaged, you get the idea...
Fortunately I never gave up on the wonder pre-build, and in 170BC I achieved the Great Library. Unfotunately, in the wonder cascade, Egypt drew the Great Wall. What remained of my forces were wiped out in a failed attempt to take a city Egypt had planted in my core, so, peace.
So, in 70BC the Aztecs finally limp into the middle age. Preparing to fight the Spanish again. No leaders so far, man would that have helped! Plans for a 100k victory are scrapped until next month. If anyone gets a chuckle out of seeing Jove fall on his face, please have a good time with this one!

Next spoiler.... Montezuma's Revenge

@Jove

Oh, my man, what have you done.

There are only 2 wonders, I can think of in PTW, that could be helpfull for 100K:
- Pyramids, but it's value is degraded because of the small map
- Internet, but it's way too late available
Those 400 GLib shields could have meant 13 swords or something.

You probably were thinking of achieving your 100K goal by building culture and grow big (in that order). But it's nearly always the other way round, grow big and build culture.

A lot of us were attacked, including me, by the polite Egyptians. Because Egypt mostly looked stronger than Spain and Bella most build the provocative good wonders, most people were attacking Spain first. And then quite a few were attacked by the Egyptians. Cleo always takes me by suprise (somehow I think women are more peaceful )

I admire your MA-date though. I got rid of my neigbours in the AA, a so had a lot more territory but still reached MA not until 70AD.

btw

Jove said:

If anyone gets a chuckle out of seeing Jove fall on his face, please have a good time with this one!

Click to expand...

Yesss,s I did

Redbad said:

There are only 2 wonders, I can think of in PTW, that could be helpfull for 100K:
- Pyramids, but it's value is degraded because of the small map
- Internet, but it's way too late available

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IMHO all happiness producing Great Wonders are helpful, because they allow you excessive pop rush once you are in communism. And that is the way to go. If you have any doubt, check SGOTM6. This implies also the great power of The Pyramids.

@tao

I grant you the Gardens, Chapel and the Cathedral, but surely not the Oracle. And I don't think you would want to build any of them...

Of course, theoratically you can include any wonder that furthers your game could be named as useful. For example Smith for reducing your cost, Sun Tzu en Leo for speeding up your conquest part of the game.

I just mentioned the wonders that more or less directly contribute to the goal:
Pyramids for helping to get many cities
Internet for providing culture.

I promised a few pics:

Here's my 1000BC screen:

I was a bit timid w/r to number of citites I own. I've got 6 of my own + two of Spain's at this time.

And I entered the MA in 210BC:




It's a bit hard to see b/c of the resolution: all RCP=3 cities but one and all RCP=6 cities but one are up and running.

Medieval Age link

DBear's GotM46 Anc--Open:

Starting decision
I decide to start 1w on the hill by the coast. Looks good at the time but in retrospect not so. Lots of nasty jungle to the w. Start researching pot at max for grainaries. The original idea was to use the jags for scouts. We learn pot in -3350 and start alpha at the time we spot Barcelona. Spain has a 2nd city already? Spain does not give us any fair trades, so against all sound judgment, I decide to go aggro with my javs.

Looking death in the eye
My 2 javs attack Barcelona, defended by a warrior. First one retreats, second one DIES. I retreat the first jav, and Spain starts comin' after me. After getting some reinforcements, a jag finally wins in -2950. Waste of a GA, I know, but I'll take what I can get. Another healthy jag loses to a redlined warrior in the freakin' DESERT. It's official. Jags SUCK! In -2750 my last archer and warrior retreat to capital. Whip for archer. We barely hold them off, and I have visions of red ambulances going off in my head.

Unexpected benefits
Spain retreats, and I get them to cough up BW + Alpha + 10 in -2590. And they were winning the war! Time to get more cities out. I have an archer climb the hill near Barcelona to spy on them while Capital builds settlers. In -2230 Second City is founded. Spain tries to send a settler pair, I set up a line to block and run into an Egyptian warrior, trading them alpha + 9 for wheel in -2070. Next turn, the dyes are roaded at last.

Round two
In -1910, Spain tries to extort pottery. We refuse, they declare. We chase down the settler pair and take slaves next turn. I panic in -1725 when an Egyptian settler pair nears the capital, but they end up going into the jungle. Second City is connected in -1675. Two turns later, we learn IW, start writ. We see iron just outside Egypt. In -1550 Tlatelolco founded, shortened to El Loco.

Getting Izzy's attention
In -1350, Spain audaciously builds a city right next to our archer and jag. Naturally, we raze it. We then make Izzy cough up writ, mystic, HB + 21. Still can't get Barcelona yet, tho. In -1250 we build Eldorado on the ruins. We name it Eldorado as it's next to the gold hill. Egypt founds El-Amarna 3ne of Eldorado in -1175. Egypt is getting pushy. We trade maps in -1100. Damn, Egypt has some nice land.

QSC stats
These are downright pathetic
Score: Firaxis 174, QSC 1474
Land: 56 squares, 4 towns.
Population: 4 happy, 1 content, 2 unhappy.
Buildings: 3 rax, temple.
Production: 29 food, 51 shields, 5 gold.
Units: 1 settler, 3 workers, 2 slaves, 6 archers, 1 jag.
Experience: 6 vets, 1 leet.
Diplomacy: 2 contacts, no embassies.
Tech: BW, IW, Alpha, Writ, Pottery, Wheel, Warcode, HB, CB, mystic.
We have 132 beakers toward Poly.

Iron man
In -950 we build Border Guard on the isthmus to filch iron. Border Guard is roaded by next turn. In -670 Texaco Station is built in the desert. We finish Poly in -610 and use the lone scientist gambit to start researching monarch. We trade poly to Egypt for mason, law, philo + 45. Trade Poly to Spain for math, TM + 2.

Opportunity knocks
Spain takes El-Amarna from Egypt in -570. I open embassies to both countries in -530 and tell Spain to give us El-Amarna, they refuse. We declare war and take El-Amarna next turn. We capture Barcelona, with 2 slaves, in -470. Build Portside on the se peninsula next turn. Turns out Barcelona was sitting on horses and I didn't even realize it. We move to cut the iron outside Santiago, but Egypt takes it in -130.

Lead on
In 150, we get a message that the Iroquois, wherever they are, were destroyed. In 190 we get a leader outside Madrid, but I don't know what to do with him. in 310 the gambit pays off as we get Monarch, trade it to Egypt for Construct, 118, spice, WM. The Hanging Gardens have already been built, so I use the leader to rush the FP in Barcelona, renamed Forbidden City. We trade WM with Egypt in 430 and see that Spain has some offshore towns. Next turn we build Welcome to the Jungle to put pressure on Egyptian jungle towns, and in 450 we learn currency, FINALLY entering the MA. This is one ugly game.

@Redbad:
I have to agree with your wonder selection. The library wasn't really my first choice anyway, more what I ended up with. I was anticipating 2 things though. 1) that I would have a lot more cities, and setting aside one or two for wonders wouldn't be such a drag and 2) on a small map there would be room for way less cities than usual by the end, and so the extra culture might help. But looking back now, I'm not so sure this approach would be the right one even under good circumstances. OTOH, this approach made for an odd game. The Great Library was the main reason I was sunk, but once I was sunk, it was the only reason I survived to reach what looks like an eventual victory.

And I'm glad you enjoyed all this, Redbad. I had mainly you in mind with that comment. My karma feels better already!

@DBear: Interesting that we found two completely different routes to the same lousy destination. My sympaties.

1.27

Objective:
Monty the Diplomat – Yep, I decided to use the Aztecs to their worst potential in this little escapade.

Opening:
Moving worker NW to the game forest revealed the other game forest. I decided to move the settler west – coastal, river, and 2 forest games plus a flood plain and dyes in the city radius. Since I was taking a long view toward high science production in Tenochtitlan, I was primarily interested in maximizing commerce. The coastal location with access to most of the river tiles seemed the obvious choice. Tenochtitlan’s initial builds were jag x 3, settler, jag, settler.

(@EsatP – how did you rush the Colossus in the capital if you founded it in 4000 BC? Perhaps I misunderstood your post?)

Research started on Alphabet at max possible. I met both Spain and Egypt in 3400 BC. Based on the tech situation, it was obvious they had already met each other. I blocked the choke between myself and Egypt anyway, as I didn’t want them flooding me with settlers. I also set up a jag warrior picket fence between myself and Spain, which kept them out of “my” territory until they learned Map Making.

Early Tech Progression:
Alphabet learned in 3050 BC
Writing learned in 1990 BC – Traded with Egypt and Spain for Bronze Working, Masonry, The Wheel, Ceremonial Burial and Warrior Code, as well as some gold.

Code of Laws learned in 1350 BC – During the interturn, I first purchased Pottery from Egypt for 2 GPT and 4 gold. I then traded Code of Laws to Spain for Iron Working, Horseback Riding and World Map. Two turns later, I traded Code of Laws, WM, 2 GPT and 8 gold to Egypt for Map Making.

The Builder-Instinct Faux Pas:
There were a few wonders that I wanted to make the high-science game progress, and one of the keys was the Pyramids. Normally I would trust the AI to build the Pyramids for me, but I started getting nervous when neither the Egyptians nor Spanish had started by 1950 BC. Tenochtitlan was about to complete another settler in 1950 BC when I decided to flip it over to the Pyramids.

One advantage of having only 6 civs in the game was that I could predict when the AI started building wonders from the F11 screen (all 6 capitals show up there for a long time). I knew that Spain was working on the Colossus in Madrid, but only one of the offshore AIs was working on a wonder (and that capital had just grown to size 4). I decided to gamble that I could out-build the AI to the Pyramids even though I had a bit of a late start. I quickly improved tiles around Tenochtitlan and joined some workers into the town…..and then sat and watched as my plan backfired.

Spain completed the Colossus in Madrid in 1750 BC. OK, no problem there. However, that meant that Spain had kicked off an early GA. Of course, I also knew that Spain would spit a settler out of Madrid before starting another wonder, so I wasn’t that worried.

That is, until 1300 BC, when the Zulu completed the Pyramids. The ensuing cascade worked against all efforts to salvage my investment in Tenochtitlan. Persia completed the Oracle in 1275 BC, meaning that Spain (in their GA) swapped their Oracle build over to the Great Lighthouse.

In 1250 BC, I bit the bullet and purchased an embassy with Spain. At this point, I found they would complete the Lighthouse in 4 turns and I couldn’t possibly beat them. To make matters worse, there was nowhere for me to cascade my shields in Tenochtitlan. Ultimately, I grumbled a lot and built a 212-shield harbor in my capital. That was a granary and five settlers worth of production down the drain. :shakehead

Plan B – Land Grab for a second core:
Learned Philosophy in 900 BC – traded it to Egypt for Mysticism. I then shut off science to start upgrading my military. I had managed to squeeze in a town at the Egyptian choke point to grab iron, so I started upgrading jags to swords.

Egypt was a culture hog, so of course my iron town flipped to them in 800 BC (even though it had a temple, it didn’t have much culture). I had to resort to buying “my” iron from Egypt for WM, 5 GPT and 39 gold. At least these trades with Egypt kept them off my back, as I see they were somewhat aggressive in other’s games.

I declared war on Spain in 730 BC and my despotic GA was triggered during the interturn when a jag was victorious on defense. Progress against Spain was rather slow, partly due to insufficient troops (I really only had 3 productive towns at this point) and partly due to really crappy RNG. Meanwhile, Egypt marched an impressive number of troops all the way across my territory to attack Spain, which they finally initiated in 470 BC. Egypt didn’t capture anything in Spain, but they did kill some units for me.

I removed Spain from the mainland in 70 BC and gave them peace for an off-shore town, Republic, WM and 14 gold.

By the way, I got no Great Leaders during the AA (16 elite victories).

Other tech:
Learned Literature in 310 BC – Traded it to Egypt for Math, WM and 74 gold (hoping that Egypt will build the Great Library for me).

Learned Currency in 50 AD – Egypt learned Polytheism in 70 AD, I traded Currency for it, and FINALLY entered the Middle Ages in 70 AD. That is a really sad and misguided effort for a fast diplo attempt, but I was still holding to my longer view.

I did send out one suicide galley (which immediately sank), so I still don’t have contact with the off-continent civs at this point.

Here is a screenie of my situation at this point. The overall plan was to build up a number of coastal cities at RCP4 (for high commerce later on), and build the Forbidden Palace in Tlacopan (even if I had to build it one stick at a time).

Ohhh - next mistake - in Teotihuacan (2230 was settled) city must be on coast....
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2190 - Colossus in Tenochtitlan (a mistake, it is spent the leader)
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@Shigella

Our swords cross again, I too went diplo. And I entered the MA in the same year you did. But I wasn't struck by the mishap you encountered in the AA.

After my first Jag saw the horribly closeby Spaniards and two turns later the Egyptians, I decided for war first. Tenochtitllan became a settler factory and the other cities build barracks and jags.

With the opponents so nearby and it being a small map there was little need for horses. Plan was to build jags, research iron working, stop research and upgrade the jags. Only to attack when sufficient jags were upgraded as I didn't want an early GA, as result of having to fight with jags. Science went so awfully sluggish that I insisted on a lateMA/earlyIA-GA.

When my jags discovered there were no more civs on our cozy continent, I figured I would have time until navigation before intercontinental contact between the civs was established. So the war could be fought the ugly way. I had build Tlaxcala at the iron-choke between us and Egypt. Because of it's strategic value I whipped a temple after ten turns. And Tlaxcala won the cultural battle for land from nearby Heliopolis.

Spaniards build the Colossus (very good for science) and started on the GLight. Glight could be quite handy but in any case it prevents Madrid from building warstuff. So war started against the Spaniards. Around 650BC when my troops were at the gates of Madrid (GLight had been build), the Egyptians attacked Tlaxcala and disconnected its iron. But I had stationed suffiant troops in Tlaxcala and was now in posession of Santiago-iron,

Next turn Madrid was captured and peace was offered to Spain for all they had, leaving them only with Sevilla. Of course the chance of Madrid flipping would be great, so in 570BC I suprise-attacked Sevilla forcing Bella into retirement. The war against Cleo lasted until 10BC. The picture below is taken right after she lost her last city Elephantine. In between we had 2 5-turn peaces for catching up with Cleo's techs and for regrouping the troops. Cleo only had a few chariots and her GA did start before she was down to 2 cities. And she didn't build any wonders.

But I managed to get 2 leaders out of the wars: one building the FP in Madrid and the other building an army. In the end the army saved the day because a few turns before the end of Egypt, Cleo did a strange thing:
A galley of hers had circled the continent and returned to Elephantine. I think it had a settling-party onboard that didn't find a good spot. I was very happy because now there wouldn't be the settler-in-a-boat-syndrom. We attacked with 10 swords and a sword-army. But Elephantine was heavilly defended and we suffered bad RNG. At the end of the fight it was one redlined spear against two healthy swords, which ended in a elite-spear and two dead swords. Next turn the galley left again sailing towards sevilla. We attacked again, the sword-army now killing the elite-spear and the remainder of the other swords killing a new spear. In Elephantine we capture three settlers and the Egyptians are gone. So the galley sailed of empty or perhaps carrying millitary

Somewhere along the way we were informed that the Iroquois had left us. So there are now three of us. Shouldn't get much less when you're going diplo.

Capt Buttkick said:

I've got no idea what to do to get more leaders. ....Anyone have any suggestions on what else I could do?

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Have you studied this one by SirPleb ?

Redbad said:

@Shigella

Our swords cross again, I too went diplo. And I entered the MA in the same year you did. But I wasn't struck by the mishap you encountered in the AA.

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Ahhhh, so the game is afoot!

We may be even on the MA date, but you clearly have the advantage in development (and still have your GA in hand).

I'll be curious to see if I even come close to catching the lead you are certain to take during the MA.

Thanks for referring to my idiocy as a "mishap", but I would more fairly compare it to a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Redbad said:

Somewhere along the way we were informed that the Iroquois had left us. So there are now three of us. Shouldn't get much less when you're going diplo.

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Why don't you go ahead and eliminate either Shaka or Xerxes. You know you want to.

I see you've submitted already, so I'll assume the three of you survived until the UN was completed.

See you in Spoiler 2.

Redbad said:

Have you studied this one by SirPleb ?

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Well, I had read and forgot about that... so thanks
Going through the list, there's not much, if anything, that I'm not doing already, though. The we-wouldn't-get-an-MGL-to-save-our-lives crew of the XTeam over in the Sgotm are excellent teachers of the strategy although the RNG mysteriously deludes us w/r to leaders. They recently played a winning AWD without generating one! single leader Maybe some of that luck has rubbed off on my solo games...

Anyway: I'm not complaining that much
Seems like I quite often get that one crucial leader for an FP or a palace jump at just the right time which imhso is more important than a huge amount of leaders when going for a military win.
Guess you can't be lucky with the RNG all of the time

Vanilla 1.29, open.

Hi all. This is my first GOTM and my first 1.29 game, so I won't bore you with my miserable result. I had quite a number of surprises during the game. I'd appreciate any help you can provide to understand what happened. I'm particularly worried about the last question: it looks very much like a bug to me. Here go my questions:

1- Civilopedia say Alphabet gives Junks (1/1/7), which then don't exist. Why is this?
2- Initial city near river gave 2 food, 1 production, 3 gold. Why 3 gold?
3- Archer have ZOC. If there are 2 units together being attacked, the archer gets a free shot. If enemy moves near archer, it doesn't get a free shot. Is that the rule?
4- Spain declared war, attacked one of my cities and lost their unit. Then my capital had 1 extra happy face for a few turns. What triggered happiness? How many turns does it last? Does it only apply to capital?
5- I had a city at distance 5SW1SE from capital. I created a new city at distance 5NW. A previous city further away suffered increased waste next turn. I thought that (considering rounding down) both cities would have the same rank. What went wrong?
6- A 1 pop city is destroyed when invaded, but a 1 pop capital isn't. Is that true?
7- Possible bug. Tenochtitlan is built in the initial location. It builds an archer and is set to build a jaguar. At a certain time food is 18, production is 6, culture is 9. Luxuries rate set at 100%. Game forest is being worked, there's a forest in the initial 9 squares, there's another game forest in the 21 squares. Press Enter to end the turn and... guess what? The jaguar isn't built! City size is now 2, border expanded, food is 0, production is 9, the 2 game forests squares are being worked. Why didn't the production of the second citizen add up?

Thanks for your help.