Camelot!

7ronin said:

Your very thorough descriptions have piqued my curiousity. I have downloaded this and will play it shortly.

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Well, great!
I hope that you will find it worthy of being included with the very excellent group in your sig.

I have family coming in to town, so I haven't had a chance to look at it much, but I can give you my initial impressions:

The look and feel of the game is great! You've really done an excellent job of capturing the appropriate atmosphere for a game like this.

So far, I've only played as the Britons (but they use my 3 favorite attributes, so I think they'll be a long-term favorite).

I really appriciate the fact that you can irrigate almost anywhere, even forests and hills. This gives some superb growth early on. I'm not sure how this will impact the long-term game: everyone seems to have pretty large empires by the end of the AA.

Related to this, I've noticed that the AI uses Wagons for Settler units almost without fail. Is there a particular reason for this? I'm not saying this is a flaw, I was just wondering if that's the intention. I was certainly surprised to see the amount of sprawl from other civs so early in the game!

Also, most of the civs tend to be pretty docile - I don't recall anyone starting a war even if I didn't provide resources they demanded. Again, I was somewhat surpised at this given the hostile relationships between of some of these civs historically.

This is one of the best scenarios I've played, by the way. You've really paid a lot of attention to details here, and your hard work really shows. I've seen a few spelling errors, etc., but nothing too distracting. Excellent work!

Haven't seen the Grail yet - but I can't wait to find out what happens!

Acrux:

Thank you very much for your reply.
Very gratifying to read your compliments. Thank you.

I've placed a lot of forest & hills on the map, so wanted to increase the opportunity for cities to grow. I've designed the game to progress quickly through the tech tree, and fast growing cities is part of that.

I also have noticed that the AI uses Wagons as settlers almost exclusively. Not sure why. Could perhaps be that it's taking advantage of the increased movement and transport capabilities? (Although I've never actually noticed that the AI loads any units into the Wagon, and with all the forest I've put on the map, there really isn't much opportunity to take advantage of increased movement.) And yes, there is much sprawl. But again, this is part & parcel of the desire for quick game progression.

There does seem to be somewhat of a reluctance for the AI to go to war; at least early on. Not sure why, particularly since I have given each of the civs a flavor (or Culture Group) and have set the relationships between the germanic invaders and the celtic inhabitants at 0. However, once hostilities do break out (and they do), generally towards the end of the 2nd age, I have been amazed how absolutely everyone goes to war with everyone else. The lines that form on the diplomacy screen from all the "at war with", the "military alliance with/against" & "mutual defense treaty" becomes almost unreadable.

What! No way! Can't be!

Again, thanks for the reply and compliments. I really do appreciate it.
Let me know when you find the Grail!

Wagons ~ I've noticed the AI build these and use them terribly also. They haven't loaded them up with anything and they don't use the full two movement. They do need some fixing I reckon. You want them fast moving? Well try taking off the wheeled selection and give them 1.1 stats and capture. Then they should go out on their own like you'd expect of a wagon. Just an idea.

War ~ You guys got lucky. I had the Saxons up for some fistycuffs with Arthur pretty much from the word go. But they got a damn good hiding and I intend to give them another.

I'll post a fuller set of feedback tomorrow, tis a great scenario.

Rambuchan:

Good thoughts on the wagon.
I'll look at incorporating your suggestions in the update.

The AI will never use land transports, at least not as transports, I'm afraid. So you won't see it load units into the wagons. However, it seems that this doesn't affect the gameplay much in this scenario, fortunately.

Stupid AI.

A CHRONICLE OF THE EARLY DAYS OF ARTHUR, KING OF THE BRETONS.

In the beginning, there was a man named Arthur, who pronounced himself King and he did build a city that he named Camelot! It grew strong and sent out messengers to many parts of the land to declare the great king's arrival. Ye, indeed our peoples did soon cover many hills and river valleys, working and singing in these pleasant climes.

Many we did meet, like the Dumnonii, were quite amazed at the height of Arthur's stead and the gleam on his crown. Arthur knew from the moment he entered their measly court, that their lands would be his some day ('twas true that Arthur had an eye for Copper and holidays in that land they did name Cornwall).

There were also people in the south east, who showed signs of being unfit to rule themselves. Jutes they did call themselves. Arthur knew in his heart that they too would bow at the throne of Camelot! ('Tis such a burden being King of the Bretons)

But not all were so friendly. When our men took to the eastern hills and ye over them and beyond, they met some folk who were rather rough. They did not take kindly to stories of Arthur's greatness. Nay, they bashed us over the head they did.

So we sent many men to the eastern hills and ye over them and beyond and we did bash them many times more than they did bash us. When all was told, they, these Saxon folk, did agree that Arthur's men were superior head bashers and they gave us gold and some knowledge, which we put to use within the turn of a cartwheel on the old Roman roads.

Indeed we now were able to build many blessed things, from stone, dyes, flint and other marvels of this land. This made our people happy and they did worship the pagan gods and we increased our numbers all over this green and pleasant land. To the north we met Cymry, who possessed a fierceness (and sizeable army), so we sat with some mead and agreed to not getting in each others' way.

As we went north still, we found people spoke in strange ways and that they had some knowledge to share with Arthur. These men do seem willing to drink more mead with us than the Cymry hill folk. They call our maidens "bonny" though, so we shall have to keep a wary eye. Arthur has said that he shall enjoy mincing Cymry sharing this peaceful land with them.

One of these pieces of knowledge that Camelot! began seeing, was the riding of horses. It was suggested around the Round table that the Breton Horseman was considerably more effective in battle than anything others possessed at that time. There was a natural urge to find out. So Arthur commanded the training of a few and he put them to work on the Jutes.

Lo! Did they crumble! Their lands were all lost to us in no more than a baker's dozen cart wheel turns and they did find refuge only in the corners of the kingdoms across the Channel, all of whom merry trading began with once they were met.

Arthur was most pleased and he did build a grand Stone Circle, to guide us on the tellings of the heavens. He did also commission a grand Harp player by the name of Taliesin.

All the men and women are now most jolly these days and the druids are chanting in the stone cirlces, whilst maiden frolick to our musicians' ballads.

Arthur, ever the bold and ambitious leader, plans to extend his lands someday he says. After all, he has heard rumours of a Christian relic in these lands. If the rumours are true, it shall well be worth his while claiming it. He knows that owning the whole of this pleasant land shall make it far easier to find what many are referring to as ..........."The Holy Grail"

Azmorg: All in all - and having only played one era in, on one civ - it is indeed an impressive work, especially on the art work chosen. I really appreciate when modders have gone to the trouble. Pretty much ditto on the 'pedia. You've done an outstanding job with the icons, the terrain, the LHs and so on. Tip-top. And I must compliment you on the soundtrack. Very nice indeed, a balanced selection of tunes, very evocative of the time and place and most listenable to (although I wondered about the Spanish guitar tune, it was enjoyable enough to forget about its lack of authenticity). Excellent job here also. Soundtracks are an area I'm really keen on.

Gameplay seems to be pretty well balanced. There are no real sitting ducks to speak off (at least not anymore) and I can see there being a heated contest soon, now that all lands are settled. I've mentioned the Wagons already. You can make better use of them. I wonder how the AI will use their other units. The improvements in the first age all seem well put together. I got the intended double hit with the Henge and the Harp and I'm liking the druid's circles.

One thing is that I'm really stuck for ~ what govt to choose now that I've got to the end of the first age. I've stated my plans, what would you recommend with some pretty large cities?

I can't really say much more at this stage. But it's a very pleasing experience to play this.

Rambuchan:

What a terrific telling of a tale of bold adventure and heroic challenges. Methinks the great Taliesin's reputation is in danger of being overshadowed. Many of the various tellings of Arthur's legend portray him as the last hope of a Christian, Romanized Britain, being invaded by the pagan Saxons and their evil ilk. I like your version. Arthur was, after all, a Celt. Your telling reminds me somewhat of Marion Bradley's "The Mists Of Avalon". Thank you for your contribution to this thread. Your voice is one of the clearest and most thoughtful heard in these halls of CivFanaticism.

Thank you also for the very gratifying compliments about the art work, 'pedia & music; they definitely make the game. I debated long with myself about the extra-Celtic type music (there's some South American stuff too), but I do like the way it sounds, so in the end it got in. Wait 'til you hear one of the 3rd age pieces; it rocks. .

To address your question of gov't types, that is one I have not answered myself with much satisfaction. There are 3 gov'ts available at the close of the 1st age, the Age of Tribes: Druidic Circle, The Great Thane, The Witan.

Druidic Circle is meant to mimic what it would have been like for a tribe/civilization/culture to have been ruled by a religious oligarchy, a priest class. Corruption is not too bad, but unit support is not great (better in smaller settlements) and is somewhat expensive; a reflection of how the warrior class is diminished in a cleric led society. Because things religious take precedence, production cannot be hurried.

With the Great Thane you are the ruler, but not absolute. You are beholden to your vassals, who are semi-autonomous and powerful in their own right. With this system, the people are more oppressed; production is hurried at the expense of the citizenry. Corruption is similar to Druidic Circle, but there is better unit support and it is less expensive. However, with large cities, metropolis sized, unit support is greatly diminished; your vassal lords have a much larger labor pool and tax base, so are more independent, less reliable.

The Witan attempts to sort of synthesize the previous two. It is like a council that advises the leader. Whether or not the advice is heeded, depends largely on the relative strengths of the leader versus the council. Since the people feel better represented, there is less corruption than Druidic Circle or The Great Thane. Additionally, with a greater sense of general well-being, the people are more productive, allowing a professional military class to develop. Consequently, there is greater unit support at the metropolis level, but if it is exceeded, the soldiers are more expensive. Furthermore, the gov’t must pay to have it’s citizens hurry their productive efforts.

So, there is the low down of the governmental situation. As you can see, there are trade-offs. It is difficult to advise which is the best. It all depends on the ratio of towns to cities to metros, and how much expense your treasury can sustain. From the way you describe your city size, I am inclined to suggest either The Great Thane, or The Witan.

Hope this helps.
I greatly look forward to your next installation of King Arthur’s exploits and the tales of mighty CAMELOT!

This scenario caused the game to crash (on only me, apparently) at two points.

The first time was when we went into the second age, which I soon figured out was due to the new music. I could continue playing if I turned off the music option in references the turn before I changed over. The bizarre thing about this, though, is that your new music files are named exactly like those found in the Civilization's original folder, so I don't know what the problem is. However, it would crash every time it attempted to play the second age's music.

The second major problem I confronted wasn't until the end of the game. I attempted to build the Pendragon, but every time it tries to show the wonder's splash screen, the game crashes. I haven't been able to figure out how to fix this yet so I'm stuck at that point. It hasn't crashed at the other wonders I've built though, so it is specifically that the Pendragon that's causing problems.

I agree though with the common opinion that you did very well in creating the atmosphere for the game. The terrain graphics and music chosen are very fitting.

Der Steppenwolf:

First let me be the first to welcome you to the land of Civilization Fanatics.
Welcome!
And even better, your very first post is about CAMELOT!. How cool is that?!
Thank you.
And thank you for the kind words.

Not sure what the problem might be with the music. As you've noted, it seems to be unique to you. My first thought is that you have the mp3 files in the wrong folder; but then why would the first age work? Perhaps it is something specific to the Sounds/Build/Middle Ages folder. Try this: Alter the folder name slightly; take out the space (MiddleAges), or add a "1" to the end. This will cause the game to over look the folder and use the game default folder. If that works, make a new folder within the game's default Sounds/Build/Middle Ages folder, called Org. Copy all the orginal game mp3's into this new folder. Then, one at a time, copy the mp3 files from the CAMELOT! Sounds/Build/Middle Ages folder into the game's default Sounds/Build/Middle Ages folder. By replacing the game's files one at a time, and then replaying the saved game for which you were encountering the crash, you will be able to tell exactly which mp3 file is causing the problem. When you find that out, let me know.

As for the Pendragon problem, I believe I had color issues with the Wonder Splash file. I've attached what I believe to be the corrected file (it works for me).
View attachment Pendragon.pcx
If this still doesn't work, let me know.

Again, thank you for your compliment.
Tell all your friends.

Ok, my two cents (or ören in my case):
First of all, I'll have to agree with the others about the great atmosphere!

I strongly suggest you should rethink the Accelerated Production flag. Not only did it lead to the Pendragon being built 100 AD, that is the 86th turn out of 366, but I think it also causes uncontrolled city growth with no need for aqueducts or sewers to grow to metropoles. That, combined with the high food output in the scenario and with no buildings reducing pollution, led to some serious problems for several civs with pop pollution. For example, in the year 100 AD Camelot (AI-controlled, I played Angles) was a size 27 city with six polluted tiles.

The Saxon Bowman doesn't upgrade to Saxon Longbow, because of the upgrade chain being broken between the Longbowman and the Saxon Longbow.

The Curragh, the Galley and the Longboat should have their Rotate Before Attack flags checked.

Wolfhart:

Thank you for your ören. Need all the ören I can get.

In regards to the population questions: I like the Accel. Prod. because it gets the player into the era where the game is really interesting, which is the search for the grail. I've actually debated removing the Diplomacy win option so that the only way to win was to find the Grail and return it to your capital city, but then I couldn't think what to do with such a great Pengragon Wonder.

I have also experienced the high population with the polution, but it is more pronounced at the easier game settings. Might I suggest you try at the Monarch, or even Emperor level? I think you would find this issue would mostly resolve itself. But I will consider your comment; I have wondered if I have made the terrain too productive in both food & shield.

Regarding the unit upgrade & attack rotation: good thoughts. I will make these changes.

Thank you very much for choosing CAMELOT!.
And thank you again for your ören.

Azmorg said:

I've actually debated removing the Diplomacy win option so that the only way to win was to find the Grail and return it to your capital city, but then I couldn't think what to do with such a great Pengragon Wonder.

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Keep the Pendragon wonder, it contributes to the great atmosphear You could refine it further by changing the texts in script.txt, since it now uses the old texts about elections for UN Secretary-General. Perhaps also make it more expensive or in other way more demanding to build, because now with the Accelerated Production it gets built before the Grail hunt can begin.

Azmorg said:

I have also experienced the high population with the polution, but it is more pronounced at the easier game settings. Might I suggest you try at the Monarch, or even Emperor level? I think you would find this issue would mostly resolve itself.

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I played at Demigod, which rather proves my point then. At least give some building the Removes Pop. Pollution flag. When the green Arthurian landscape is hit by global warming (happened to my territories twice before 100 AD) the great atmosphear suffers a little... Of course, other texts in script.txt could alleviate this, like replacing the words 'Global Warming' by 'Morgan Le Fay' or any other magician you want to blame.

Wolfhart:

Yes, the Pendragon stays. Your point about the scripts file is well taken. Plotinus has made the same observation. This is a needed change and will be done in a forthcoming update.

Back to pollution. The Forge is the only building that produces pollution, so most of it must be coming from population. Perhaps six tiles is excessive, but I think that since we're dealing with a scenario set in a time period that didn't have the same sanitation standards we do, is not some pollution warranted? Then again, if pollution is becoming such a big factor that it alters the game too much... And the Romans were quite good at hygiene & sanitation. Yes, this needs to be tweaked.

One of my goals was to have the game progress quickly. By unchecking Accel. Prod., I think it would take much too long to get to the 3rd & final age. Would you consider giving this a go and providing a report? Either way, I will definately make a building or two reduce population pollution.

Thanks again for the excellent analysis.

This scenario looks pretty good, . Did you make those advisors (the one in the screenie) yourself?

Odintheking:

Thanks for the compliment.
Have you had a chance to give it a go? Hope to hear more from you.

I did not make the advisors. I believe they are done by R8XFT.
Here is the link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=106223&highlight=advisors

Unfortunately, I am not able to do anything other than cut & paste graphics. So, only stuff like tech icons, building pcx's and the like would be of my doing.

Thanks again.

First I want to say that this looks like a very fun game, but secondly I have to say something else...


I can't believe no one has made any Monty Python cracks yet.

BTW whay are we going to Camelot anyway, 'tis a silly place.

Sorry couldn't control myself.

Lord Malbeth said:

I can't believe no one has made any Monty Python cracks yet.

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Well, I was thinking of making the Knights of Knee, but then I'd need to have someone make some shrubery.

Thanks for the compliment.
If you're so inclined, maybe add a little something about your adventure in the silly place.