ALC Game #5: England/Victoria

cabert said:
pyramids are still an option (not built yet AFAIK), but being financial makes the specialists a not so good option (well, an academy would still be good!)

About whipping, i don't share Eggolas' opinion : it's time to whip as many happiness buildings = temples as possible, wherever possible (the axeman "bug" can still be used, 25 hammers towards a temple is good)

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. When I frequented the other civ forum, there was a lot of discussion about whipping after a slingshot. The general consensus was that the short-term advantage was not worth the decrease in population in the capital. You have a tremendous beaker advantage now over the other civs on your continent, one of which is financial and organized. This is the time to increase your relative research and production advantage, not squander it and let Washington catch up.

To me, the power of a financial civ increases exponentially with the advent of CS and Bureaucracy. But it requires that you rapidly increase the size of the capital to get the biggest relative advantage that you can. This is what makes the Liberalism slingshot a foregone conclusion. Otherwise, it becomes a race that could fall to America or someone on the other continent (not likely Monty or Isa).

A temple is nice, but seriously, it is not required for quite awhile. It's only a +1 happiness per temple. This early in the game, you'll get more from getting the wine, gems and furs into play (+3, +4 with forge), cottaging everything in London and making the other cities specialized, slave city-states providing London with happiness and health resources and the military units as well. Furthermore, Monarchy gives an immediate happiness boost of +1 for a unit and +1 for the wine (plus the additional commerce).

As for Monty, we simply have a disagreement as to tactics. I would prefer to block him off to the north by placing a city north of his capital, thereby leaving Tenochitlan open to invasion at any time (e.g., maces) without any buffer city to slog through. I would hone my CR skills on the barbarian city with the furs.

His Jaguar warriors will be useless against maces and he will build lots of them like the loony he is. Even if he goes for Longbows and gets them, CR2 maces are more than a match for Longbows.

In a nutshell, the achievement of the CS slingshot requires that you reevaluate all your options and the strategies you wanted to pursue for the ones that maximize the long-term benefits you'll reap from catapulting to a sizeable tech lead (pun intended). I have never lost a space race or Liberalism slingshot on Prince or Monarch difficulty after achieving the Oracle/CS slingshot. It simply puts a player in a powerful position to leverage the 50%/50% increase in the capital and the beaker lead of the CS, but only if one grows the capital quickly.

Your power rating is very low. You will probably have to buy some peaceful turns with Monty and pay him back later. If you switch to Monarchy and rework tiles, you should be able to get it in about 10 or less turns. With London having three units, that's 8 happiness cap. Taking the barbarian city right now (you have the axes), yields a quick one for the fur. Take your shock Axeman. He alone can do it. Moving the warrior south of London to London after HR is a cheap +1. Cottage the grassland hills. Cottage the plains. Cottage everything! :)

I'd run the new settler to the far NW to capture the fish/river position on the coast. [edit: nah, send it to the far east coast above Teno ... cut off Monty and his northward expansion leaving him to the jungle and his friends Isa and George. Let Monty develop the jungle, head for Machinery after Monarchy and take him down with Maces. You need lots more workers also. The CS slingshot leaves you militarily weak for awhile, but you'll get that back fast with Hereditary rule and larger cities. HR and Expansive work together well.

You can get to Machinery after HR fairly easily and in the 150AD period I suspect. Cottage like crazy in London. Move tiles around. Build a library there, not the monastery. Library is 25% to beakers, Monastery is 10% and you don't have open borders to spam religion yet (and don't need it). When HR comes, immediately build the winery.

Don't let Monty take a position above his capitol (broken record ... I know). Capture the eastern coast after taking the barbarian fur city. Better yet ... use the first settler on the east coast first and get another one chopped out for the west coast fish.

Tile micromanagement will shave a few turns off HR, MC and Machinery each bringing it to you well before 1AD. Build workers to spam cottages and build roads connecting cities and working the wine. It won't matter if George, Isa and Monty build towards you then. The maces will crush them, starting with Tenochitlan. I hope it's a nice city cause it's going to be yours!

Remember that forges work with gems to increase happiness.

Finally ... Caste System vs. whipping ... now is the time to decide. You'll get a quick border expansion to a city at the cost of some early turns of growth by utilizing an artist and the ability to use priests, merchants and scientists shouldn't be dismissed. Whipping on the other hand turns food into production. I would favor the caste system at this stage, but then I would probably head in a different strategic direction with a space race victory by the 1700s as the goal, while still taking as much of the continent as I could with my Macemen and Redcoats.
 
ok about quick growth, but look at london : all this food!
a 2 pop whip while on the verge of growing will end up as a 1 pop loss for a few turns only (working all the food). connecting happiness is always a good point, but you need the tech!
AFAIK hunting isn't researched yet, monarchy isn't researched yet, iron working isn't research yet (needed to cut the jungle on the gems), so happiness is still somewhat difficult to get.

edit : sissiutil, did you consider the philosophy option when choosing CS? in a cultural game, taoism and pacifism are very powerful, ankor wat is also a good wonder (and you have stone) that no AI could take
 
Eggolas said:
Does researching Masonry prior to researching either Mathematics or Construction reduce the research time for those last two? I know it improves the research rate on IW (In one case it dropped by 10 turns). I never could figure out which techs reduce the research time of which later techs and I'm too lazy to go into Worldbuilder to find out. Actually, I'm afraid if I go into Worldbuilder, I might start using it. Is there a thread that discusses these?

Technology Research Explained.

Masonry is a pre-req for Construction, so researching it ahead of Construction is required anyway, but yes it drops the research time (about 20%). The research time for Mathematics should be unaffected by the knowledge of Masonry.

In addition to that, though: Aqueducts and the Hanging Gardens both require Masonry, so Mathematics without it is Forts plus better chops.

Also, the number of other civs that know a tech makes a difference in research times. It's more likely that someone else will research Math while you are researching Masonry than the other way around (pure speculation on my part).

Finally (hint), there are other reasons one might want Masonry right now.....
 
Sisiutil : I think the time has come for you to decide on victory conditions; CS slingshot having given you a tech advantage gives you more options. Could go for early domination, conquest,culture,space race. We're all going to have our favourites and reasons why you should follow them. In the end its your game and your choice.
 
Eggolas's goal of a space race vic in the 1700s would truly be something to watch, as I have never gotten a space race vic even in the 1800s (I kinda suck though). Sisiutil, if you think that this is a feasible goal, then I say spaceship. Otherwise, cultural is my personal favorite.
-jcw
 
Well, Philosophy is possible with the Great Library Scientist, OR with a Prophet...although a religion would be nice.

As for getting Metal Casting, it isn't as necessary now that Bureaucracy is in Force... The point of Metal Casting is to get a % Bonus for super whipping... which Bureaucracy Does. You really do want to whip in your Capital because the pop loss is reversible.

So now in London, with the Bonus you can whip a Not Started Axe for

35*1.5/1.5=2 pop (And 60 production),
or a Just Started Axe for
33/1.5=1 pop (and 60 Production)

So to MM Slavery now, Start an Axe, rearrange the tiles to get 3 or Fewer Base Production, wait one turn and whip.... one population for 60 production

Other things to whip in London
Library with 1 to 29..90 production for 2 pop
Settlers with 1-9..120 production for 3 pop (20 'Extra' production)
Temple with 1-19...90 production for 2 pop (10 'Extra' hammers and a free Happiness in 10 turns)
Monasteries with 15-29...60 production for 1 pop



However, I do tend to agree with Eggolas, whip your capital just a bit more for development, and keep the whip up in York for Defensive Axes, but REXing for a Mace Crusher might be better than Axe Rushing (you won't need Cats yet so no Masonry needed)

So at this stage if you want to try the Cultural, I'd
Prioduction wise
focus on Settlers and Axes with Library at the Capital, once Capital has spit out a Settler or two, a Worker or two, and got the Library, Stop the Whipping and grow cottages.

Researchwise, get Monarchy, Monarchy is better for the Happiness than Calendar. (1 Resource AND the Civic)

Once you have that and Polytheism, and no Masonry and no Alphabet,
(Or if you finish Poly way before the Prophet appears Research Alphabet to Literature)
The Prophet can be used to get Philosophy
... then you can research
Literature (GL and the Trade for Hunting and Iron Working),
Masonry,
Monotheism,
Machinery
and build the A.W. in London (A.W. then just run Priests with the excess food)

Those Priests can then be used to make Prophets for Christianity and Islam, and Build whatever else is needed, while you are "acquiring", Hinduism and Buddhism with Maces. (and then the Prophets can be used for Shrines)

The GL should be started somewhere with lots of Chops+Conventional production available (if decent food whip that place a Granary and a Library and then start on the GL the Conventional Way), and the Scientist it Generates should First go to London for an Academy

PS I'm assuming Judaism has already been founded.

The nice thing is that other than
Monotheism[+Masonry],
Literature[+Alphabet]
and eventually Music[+Drama]
This doesn't divert from the Rifle Beeline with your NORMAL research, all the religions are founded by Prophets

Note: this works for a Space Race Win two (Music is sort of useless, but the religions help ensure happiness with FR and Temples and help you get to Sci Method sooner with Monasteries)
 
Whew! Lots of discussion, lots to try to absorb, lots of decisions to make. Lemme see if I can break it down a bit...

Barbarian city and settling the north: The one problem with keeping that barb city is its location. Our preferred location for a city in that area is one tile SW, where it can snag the horses and cows as well as the wine and two of the furs. This was part of the thinking, in fact, behind moving Hastings one tile W, to make room for this city. So unfortunately, I may raze it. But I see the sense in getting cities there and in the NE corner to bring some valuable resources on-line and cut off Monty. Speaking of my disagreeable neighbour...

Warmongering: Yeah, I like the idea of honing my Axe's promotions on barbs first. And now that I have Axes, I'm not worried about conflict with Monty, even if he's up in power. Knowing the AI, its most likely Archers. Maybe Jaguars, but they're not much of a match for Axes with their anti-melee bonus. Some intelligence would be handy, so perhaps an OB agreement and a little scouting is in order before hostilities commence. I have Axes, though, and the means to produce a lot of them. I'm not inclined to let that advantage go to waste while I wait for Macemen.

Research: Hoo boy. The CS Slingshot creates almost too many options. On the one hand, I'm tempted to go after Masonry, bring the stone on-line, and give the Pyramids a run; HG is tempting too. But researching Masonry sooner rather than later sounds like it would prevent my impending Great Prophets from popping Philosophy. Of course, I could plan on the Great Library and a Great Scientist for that, and use the GPs for Theology and Divine Right.

In any case, it might make sense to switch from Mathematics to something else for the time being--Masonry, then Monarchy? It would mean forgoing the Cats for awhile and relying on numbers if I do any warring. I've done that before, so I'm not uncomfortable with it. (And VoU, you're damned hard to please or impress, you know that?)

Whipping and Bureaucracy: A balanced approach makes sense. London has the food production and granary to recover from a little pop rushing, but not too much; I don't want to deprive myself of the benefits of bureaucracy. A Library makes sense as the next build, then cottages all over. That's a good point about Washington; as a Fin/Org civ, he's definitely my biggest long-term competitor that I've met so far. Monty and Izzy are just short-term nuisances with a couple of prize cities.

Victory: Spaceship in the 1700s? Wow. Ambitious. You're right, though, with a CS slingshot done, I have to sit back and decide how to best take advantage of it, and combine that with the big, overall goal to guide my decisions from this point on. Just from the different recommendations of the posts, I can see there's a danger of becoming very unfocused and scattered and thereby squandering the advantage I've gained.
 
Sisiutil said:
Whew! Lots of discussion, lots to try to absorb, lots of decisions to make. Lemme see if I can break it down a bit...

Barbarian city and settling the north: The one problem with keeping that barb city is its location. Our preferred location for a city in that area is one tile SW, where it can snag the horses and cows as well as the wine and two of the furs. This was part of the thinking, in fact, behind moving Hastings one tile W, to make room for this city. So unfortunately, I may raze it. But I see the sense in getting cities there and in the NE corner to bring some valuable resources on-line and cut off Monty. Speaking of my disagreeable neighbour...
Don't keep it. It is quite a bit inferior compared to the preferred site. Just have a settler nearby when the axes go to work.

Warmongering: Yeah, I like the idea of honing my Axe's promotions on barbs first. And now that I have Axes, I'm not worried about conflict with Monty, even if he's up in power. Knowing the AI, its most likely Archers. Maybe Jaguars, but they're not much of a match for Axes with their anti-melee bonus. Some intelligence would be handy, so perhaps an OB agreement and a little scouting is in order before hostilities commence. I have Axes, though, and the means to produce a lot of them. I'm not inclined to let that advantage go to waste while I wait for Macemen.
By all means, keep the axes coming. Getting intelligence seems wise, it'll allow you to wield your forces far more efficiently than simply stumbling around trying to find a city.

Research: Hoo boy. The CS Slingshot creates almost too many options. On the one hand, I'm tempted to go after Masonry, bring the stone on-line, and give the Pyramids a run; HG is tempting too. But researching Masonry sooner rather than later sounds like it would prevent my impending Great Prophets from popping Philosophy. Of course, I could plan on the Great Library and a Great Scientist for that, and use the GPs for Theology and Divine Right.
Screw the 'Mids. Make better use of Expansive and let your cities grow to gargantuan proportions. Hereditary rule lets you put happy wherever you wan t it to be. Using the Prophet for Philosophy sounds good to me. The AI seems to get after philosophy real quick, for whatever reason, and snagging Taoism ensures you'll have the minimum optimal amount of religions to go after a Culture victory. Then get Masonry. You have better uses for GSes than burning them on techs. The Hanging Gardens seem to hang around forever. Haha...get it? *crickets chirp* Anyways, 'Pults would be great. You could even nurture some pretty tough ones too...

In any case, it might make sense to switch from Mathematics to something else for the time being--Masonry, then Monarchy? It would mean forgoing the Cats for awhile and relying on numbers if I do any warring. I've done that before, so I'm not uncomfortable with it. (And VoU, you're damned hard to please or impress, you know that?)
I nearly cried when I thought about the logistics of a paper slingshot...don't you need Theocracy to do that?

Whipping and Bureaucracy: A balanced approach makes sense. London has the food production and granary to recover from a little pop rushing, but not too much; I don't want to deprive myself of the benefits of bureaucracy. A Library makes sense as the next build, then cottages all over. That's a good point about Washington; as a Fin/Org civ, he's definitely my biggest long-term competitor that I've met so far. Monty and Izzy are just short-term nuisances with a couple of prize cities.
If you dwarf him, no worries. If he gets out of line...well...what else are redcoats for?

Victory: Spaceship in the 1700s? Wow. Ambitious. You're right, though, with a CS slingshot done, I have to sit back and decide how to best take advantage of it, and combine that with the big, overall goal to guide my decisions from this point on. Just from the different recommendations of the posts, I can see there's a danger of becoming very unfocused and scattered and thereby squandering the advantage I've gained.
It depends. I'd chase down machinery while fighting Monty so Izzie can be done in with Maces, hopefully before she even finds her way to Feudalism. Get drama soon if you want a culture victory...the longer you have those theatres the better. It'll help the border pops as well...
 
Sisiutil said:
On the one hand, I'm tempted to go after Masonry, bring the stone on-line, and give the Pyramids a run; HG is tempting too. But researching Masonry sooner rather than later sounds like it would prevent my impending Great Prophets from popping Philosophy. Of course, I could plan on the Great Library and a Great Scientist for that, and use the GPs for Theology and Divine Right.

You've already grabbed Priesthood, so the Great Prophet that's due in 14 turns will want to research Polytheism, then Monarchy. If you have both of those, Philosophy will come in if you haven't researched Masonry.

I'm not convinced that I would pay a high price for Philosophy at this point. You aren't running a priest game (so Angkor Wat isn't very interesting), you aren't running specialists (so Pacifism isn't very interesting. Besides, you are gearing up for war anyway - expensive).

I would be leaning toward Masonry Poly Mono, which you should be able to research before the GP pops, then grab Theology, swap civics, and start cranking out high XP units. That will also bring reduce the cost of Monarchy (cheap happy) when you are ready to bend that route.

This is all off beeline, but the Redcoat beeline isn't the goal, but a means to achieve it.

This is, of course, all operating on the assumption that your plan is to capture Tenochtitlan.
 
Yeah here is the split,

Tenocitlan Now (go for Monotheism, and Theocracy Great Prophet).. so 2 promotion Axes [possibly Philosophy later with G.Scientists]

Tenochitlan Later (go for Polytheism, Monarchy, Philosophy with Prophet, use A.W. to Run priests in London... to get the Rest... G.Scientist for Academy in London)


Basically your 'Short term goals'
would be

Monarchy
Monotheism
Literature
Machinery

"Religious" techs Philosophy, Theology, DR all obtained through Scientists/Prophets

The question is what order

I personally think that the Bureacracy makes a Mace rush more significant

So in London
Library(Whip), Monasteries, and Temples [Axes if all buildings done], Angor Wat.
cottage as much as possible
Whip if
1. significant excess food (focusing on comerce will help with this)
2. 31-45 or 61-90 hammers needed for project
3. Happy limit

GLib city
Granary, Library (whip whenever Literature is discovered), Great Library (Chop)

Other Cities
Granary, Barracks, Axes
Produce Settlers/Workers when at happy limit, Axes, etc. when below pop
Whip every 10 turns (ie as soon as the last whips unhappiness wears off)


I'd say Monarchy, then Math and Literature (make sure Alphabet doesn't finished before the Prophet pops) for Philosophy
Chop out the Great Library while researching Monotheism and Machinery
Once A.W. is built, use the Excess food to run some Priests to get Theology (unless the Prophet has already appeared)

Then start getting Theocratic Maces to finish off the Aztecs

other possible bit of advice, try and connect your roads, etc. to Izzy, this might allow one of your cities to pick up Buddhism which you can spread to make your National Religion when going Theocratic v. Monty. It might encourage Izzy to support you/start a Holy War v. Washington (you can switch to Hindu once Monty is dead and you want to attack Izzy while pacifying Washington)

i think the Mids are a Long shot, but something you could build somewhere if you have nothing else to do (cheap gold at least)
 
Pyramids . . . could be close. You'd have to get Masonry for the stone, Mathematics for the chopping and Monarchy for the larger pop in London to work hammer tiles. If you can achieve that by 100BC, I think you've got a chance to snag it.

If it goes beyond 100AD . . . enjoy the gold I think. Someone has to be building it.

The question of whether or not to tackle Monty now with Axes is a matter of preference I think. He will want to move north, if for no other reason than there are resources up there. You could let him settle the cows area to the NE and just hammer Tenochitlan, cleaning up the coastal city when it hits 2 in pop. Or you could race him to it with your first settler. Darn difficult question. A successful attack on Tenochitlan coupled with a financial powerhouse London (and HR ... handles the unhappy people in Teno when it comes out of resistance) pretty much secures the area north of the jungle. I would wait for maces and a size 9 London with cottages everywhere and the winery, but Monty is loony and might do some strange things given enough time.

It would be best to catch him in a war with Isa or George and then attack him as he moves his units south.

If you use maces you will not need cats. On Monarch, I've used CR1 maces to take out 20% cultural cities with no problems and 50% city wall cities with minimal losses. CR2 maces will rule until they have longbows. Axes generally require the cats or larger numbers by this stage.

Don't whip London. Let it grow to unruly proportions while you research Monarchy (rework tiles). Bring it on line and a size 7 or 8 London will be happy.

Focus: Nah, you'll stay focused. Think about what you want to accomplish and forget about the distractions (e.g., Pyramids) along the way. If you don't whip London, then perhaps Caste System is a better choice. All those nice artists in newly captured cities . . .

Monty now or later, axes with cats or maces without. Catch him in a war or start your own. Lots of choices, should be interesting. Just remember that long term, Washington is your adversary unless Isa takes him down early.
 
I've never been one calling for a cultural victory because I don't see this as an All Maps Challenge or an All Victory Challenge, but as an All Leaders Challenge. However, if you're going to deliberately go for a cultural victory just to show how one is done, this seems like an excellent position to try it. Personally, in this situation I think a domination victory would be much, much easier than a cultural victory. If you are considering it, though, then I think Cabert had a very good point when he mentioned doubling of cultural output after a thousand years. The earlier you get culture-producing building built, the better. Luckily this could dovetail quite nicely with other plans for a more general building of your civ, since both religious and research oriented buildings produce culture.

Regardless of victory conditions, I would whip a little in the capital but not too much. That means that you can't count on the Bureaucracy boost to whipping and you will need those forges online soon. Monarchy fairly soon soon would also be good for London.
 
I'm still not comfortable with Monty--um, um, Alive. He's a loose cannon, and by geography, pointed right at a vital resource. Terminate with extreme prejudice.

Besides, if you are looking for Culture, then getting the Holy City and a shrine if possible is a priority. I'd say axes and cats and Tenochtitlan is yours.

The longer you wait, the more real the chance of a war on two fronts becomes. If you think you have an edge, use it to cull one of the psycho's from the looney bin fast. Besides, you need to take and recolonize the Aztec lands to get the research lead for either Cultural or Space Race wins. Even with many cities producing commerce (from cottage spam), you'll have a tech lead on Izzy when she starts to act up...
 
Regardless of victory it's probably time to be boosting commerce with a few cottages, combined with bureaucracy in London with monastery and library that would be useful.
I'd advise building GL in Hastings; it would help spread out culture and would prevent gp 'contamination'.
Going for pyramids would be flash but I'm not sure how it would be useful; if not planning on multiple specialists representation will be limited and you'd be better off researching monarchy direct for winery.
 
Round 5: to 1 AD

Well, I was kind of in a holding pattern this round.

Oh, I made progress, of course, just maybe not as much, nor as dramatically, as one might expect. I did get Open Borders with everybody, but I did not commence hostilities with Monty, and here's why:





Sigh...of COURSE Monty is building his cities on top of hills! By the time I get a stack over to them, no doubt they'll have walls, too. There is no way I'll be able to take those cities without catapults. No way on Sid's green earth. Not even with me whipping Axes everytime York reaches 4 pop.

Anyway. It wasn't all bad news. My Woodsman II Warriors kept a-wanderin', and one of them found another seafood resource:



Very conveniently located, that. It bodes well for a nordic fishing village up there later on.

Since my Axes weren't going after Monty right away, I had them do a few practice strokes in the northern woods. Too bad a few barb Warriors were foolish enough to get in the way. Heh.





Since Hsung-Nu wasn't in my desired location, it got razed. And a glorious new English city arose beside its rubble and ashes:



It was very convenient to have the river there, since it meant the city was connected to trade routes and resources right away.

The gold captured from the barb city allowed me to upgrade one of my Woodsman II Warriors to an Axeman. He will be very convenient for protection and harassment of my eventual enemies. My other Woodsy II Warrior kept going south and found America's capital:



Unfortunately, I had him go too far south, and a barb Axe ate him for breakfast. He was on a wooded tile, but that doesn't help a Warrior much against an Axeman. Oh well, I got very good use out of this well-travelled Warrior.

Now here was something interesting. I was all ready to send my Woodsman II Axe to start harassing Monty when he declared war on Isabella!



Hmmm, what to do? Especially when BOTH of them came to me on the next turn, asking me to join in on their respective sides. I turned them both down; Isabella's too far away for me to attack right now, and Monty, as I mentioned, will require Catapults, which I'm working towards. Let them fight and weaken each other. Which is what they did; both Washington and I, the non-combatants, rose in score well above them during their war.

(I should mention that Washington built the Pyramids during this time. I may have to take those from him at some point...)

Regarding research: yes, I kept cottage spamming around London and Hastings. At the start of the round I changed targets to Polytheism, which would be needed for Literature, and made Monarchy--my next tech--a little cheaper. Hereditary rule and wine are certainly keeping everyone much happier. After those two techs, and after seeing Monty's cities, I went back to the Mathematics -> Construction path for catapults. Well, with one diversion:



Since I did not yet have Masonry, the GP was able to pop Philosophy (so now I won't have to use my first Great Scientist for it). I suppose I could have left it, but it only took three turns:



And another barb city appeared, in a perfect spot, too: right in the exact location we had specified for that northeast city. It will have marble, crab, cow, and a second source of copper available:



And I wasn't done. I figured I could afford one more city, another one we had all agreed upon:



So, what else? I still have not adopted a state religion, and Monty and Isabella made peace, and have both cancelled their Open Borders with me. That does not bode well. Good thing they're both different religions. I have two Buddhist cities and I think I should, perhaps, adopt it as my SR when I go to war with Monty--which is imminent--to keep Isabella off my back at the same time.

Speaking of Monty. He has built a city just east of York, north of his capital, south of my newly-captured city of Mycenian. He has a worker on a tile right next to my Woodsman II Axe. Oh boy, he's asking for it. It's time to start putting a dent in him. I have Masonry now and started building a wall for Nottingham in case he comes at me that way, which is likely.

What I hope to do is snag that worker in a turn or two, park my Woodsman Axe outside his capital to preoccupy him, and then finish Construction and start building catapults. I would also like to get that second copper resource on-line in case he manages to pillage the other one.

After I have construction, I'm planning on going for Hunting for Spearmen (Monty has Chariots), then Metal Casting and Machinery so I can start throwing Macemen at him.

Overall, I felt a little disappointed I didn't start warring with Monty, but as you saw, without catapults, it just wasn't practical.

Regarding the use of the whip, which has been a feature of this game, I am still swinging and snapping it. But not quite as often. As I said, York usually feels the sting of the lash when it reaches 4 pop, to produce a couple of Axemen quickly. I whipped a library in London, but nothing since, to allow it to grow and better take advantage of bureaucracy. I whipped granaries in my new cities once they reached 2 pop. But that's been about it.

Using the whip this way takes a lot of concentration. For several turns, I had to keep going into every city screen every turn to check on all the whip-related minutiae, slow or stagnate the city's growth when it was unhappy, accelerate it when it wasn't, remember to whip the granary in the queue now that it has a hammer, etc. (Too bad there's no easy way to tell how many turns of unhappiness a city has left.)

Frankly, it all gets a little exhausting and slows the game down (which is why I'm posting this so late). So I'm easing up on the whip in most of my cities as they grow. At least, as I said, Monarchy and wine have made it all much easier.

Here's the save file.
 
Does it feel strange not to be at war by 1ad? In terms of whipping then I guess you do usual division of cities into commerce and production; the only difference being that commerce cities just grow, production cities are whipping cities. Cats should be as easy to whip as axes (easier as they don't require resources).
Still not sure what victory you're going for.
 
Can you explain to me why you didn't join the (harass) war with Isabel against Monty? He will be your target anyway and a joint war gives a good relation boost with your relgion war dog Isa. At a next fase you could get Isa attack the Yanks and join in the war (or stab her in the back).
 
victory condition : i feel cultural is becoming a long shot now. Do you have any buddhist and indhouist monasteries built?
How about confucianist monastery? and Taoist?
If you still think about cultural it's in the next 20 turns that all those should be built, and you could just go on building a few more cities.
Your next GP really should build a shrine outside london into a 2nd "big one", and the 3rd should be whipping culture building like there is no tomorrow.
I don't worry too much about london, with early stonehenge and early oracle + palace + early (well, more than 1000 years to go) library, it's going to be legendary without too much efforts.
But i fear the other 2 wanabe legendary will have a hard time.

Space race may be better, but you don't have alphabet yet! I'm not sure you'll be leading in tech for very long.

I fear (well, not THAT fearsome) it's another domination game we're going to see. My guess would be to switch to buddhism to keep isabella off your back while you get to catapults (barracks every where?), then start whipping cats in every city but london.

How are the roads going to monte's lands?

PS : not to criticize, but just my 2 cents, i would have accepted to join isabella into the war. Just pillaging monte would have been enough, and axes manage chariots with some ease.
 
Now you finally have a good solid empire with lots of good cities (woohoo NE barb city right on the spot, sooooooooooo nice) it is time to decide which way you want to go. I am declined to say that domination is propably the easiest. Monte will be taken out first and from there you can consolidate your position. Especially when macemen will appear. Interesting game indeed. Wonder what you are going to do.
 
Monty has a fairly poor capital for a non-financial civ and a nice sea port for England. Nothing special, but nice.

The jungle is still not developed. That raises the question of whether or not to strike south and drive east to finish him off. Those jungle cities can't have much culture, so your unaided axemen may be able to finish them off.

One criticism: It's 1AD, you have 7 cities and 4 workers. The Rice near York still hasn't been farmed. Your tile improvement is lagging badly from what it could have been and you'll not be able to develop the commercial jungle until you build a lot more workers. It would have been better to sneak a worker build in cities as you went along the last 700 years.

Why is Nottingham building walls? Monty is pathetically weak as you can see. His capitol is horses, cows and nothing else! His jungle tiles are not being cleared very quickly, so I can't imagine that you're seriously considering a possible attack on the city itself. Build another worker, please. :) Or build the library. Move some axes in that direction and build a nice road to his gem city.

The scientist in London has me baffled a little. But then, other cities' tiles are not improved.

I really don't mean to be overly critical, you're doing fine, but you had CS and extended irrigation 750 years ago. You added only two workers in the interim. Your worker count should have been much higher by now and far more tiles improved to the benefit of growth and economy.

One quibble: A cottage on the grassland hill north of London would have been nice. You always have enough hammers to work there as it is and you could always mine the hill later in a space race for production should it be required.
 
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