LK125 - Warlord, Carthage, Oasis, Monarchy

pigswill said:

PS If we're going for war then I reckon domination would be easier and faster than conquest.

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Actually, I think domination will be tough due to the large block of useless desert in the game. Trying to get any city up and running in that area, yet alone giving it some culture will be rough.

pigswill said:

Before I start playing are we going for space or conquest. Greyfox and I are looking to the stars; Bede and Swiss Pauli want to slake their bloodthirst. LKendter has the casting vote!

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Seeing as I am not a big war fan, we will go to the moon. We still want to reinforce our borders with Saladin to keep him honest.

We really need to grow a lot of our cities. We have a lot of cottages needing to mature. We may even want a few more workers, as we have plenty of dead area forest to chop to speed up needed buildings.

LKendter said:

Seeing as I am not a big war fan, we will go to the moon.

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So less and more

We still want to reinforce our borders with Saladin to keep him honest.

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Nah, we can get a Defensive Pact with him and give up military . But he won't attack when pleased, so we'll be fine with him unless we get drunk and do something regretable. Mansa, if anyone, is the one to watch. In the spoiler, Backstab should read Dogpile...

Oops, may have time tonite/tomorrow.

LKendter said:

1520 AD
I really love the shrine we have at $40. I must really thank Shaka when he rises from the dead.
(IT) I refuse to give Mansa steel.

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pigswill said:

So time to give up warfare and reach for the stars via the moon. 15 turns of peace.
1520.
Whip FP in Ceteweyo.
Defensive Pact with Saladin.
Various other trades, generally profitable.

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Arggggggggggg - invalid turn from pigswill. He replayed from 1520 that I already played.
Pigswill - please edit your post to blank to avoid further confusion.
Do you have time to replay from my 1565 AD save, or should I skip to Swiss Pauli?


Heroic Epic - Utica
Globe Theater - Getoweyo, as it has a ton of flood plains and two food bonus tiles.
Wall Street - Ulundi
Oxford - Carthage
Forbidden Palace - Should decide ASAP
National Epic - Carthage
Iron Works -

Planed wars - Spain

==============

Signed up:
LKendter
Bede (swapped)
Pigswill (currently playing)
Swiss Pauli (on deck)
GreyFox

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

That confused me. See above.

Edit: Got it, will play tomorrow.

Started playing from 1565 save .

First thing I did in 1565 was get a defensive pact with Saladin.

In 1565 I also traded nationalism and liberalism to Roos for Sci Meth. No-one has discovered physics! The race is on. Switch research from steam power, let's get that free GS.

I also disbanded our obselete axe and archers to save a few pennies. In the same vein I traded ivory to Mansa for 11 gpt.

I put up some signs above cities to remind myself what I'm meant to be building there.

In 1571 I whipped Carthage for 3 pop to rush SoL. Then this happened:-


This called for a revolution in 1574. HR to Representation, Slavery to Emancipation and Decentralism to Mercentalism. It would take three turns of anarchy but the age of the free specialist had arrived.

I got bored with nothing happening so in 1589 I settled a new city down south and named it Thapsus. It should turn into a decent production city in time to help build a spaceship.

Then something happened! Physics was discovered in 1595 and a free GS (Plato himself ) appeared. Left him awaiting decisions in Carthage. If we're staying with bureacracy then maybe settle him as specialist in Carthage. Alternatively he could build an academy in one of our emerging science cities. Turned research to communism for that wonderful SP civic (even better than mercantilism imho).

In 1601 Ulundi eventually finished Wall Street which helped finances significantly.

Looking around the map oil is in short supply with none in the confines of our subtropical paradise empire. So I built Sicca in 1607.


Then it was 1610 and the end of fifteen peaceful turns. Various tiles got improved, a few units were built and arranged into neat stacks around the empire, several buildings got built, Christian missionaries were dispatched in anticipation of the Church of the Nativity and a few trades were renegotiated for slightly better prices. It makes a pleasant change from war war war.

Research is now up to 80%.


Here's how we compare to our rivals:


Here's the 1610 save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/90414/LK125_AD-1610.CivWarlordsSave

Summary:

With having the giant copper statue, I agree the age of the specialist has arrived.

Heroic Epic - Utica
Globe Theater - Getoweyo, as it has a ton of flood plains and two food bonus tiles.
Wall Street - Ulundi
Oxford - Carthage
Forbidden Palace - Should decide ASAP
National Epic - Carthage
Iron Works -

Planed wars - Spain

==============

Signed up:
LKendter
Bede
Pigswill
Swiss Pauli (currently playing)
GreyFox (on deck)

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Got it.

If we're running specialists then we should be in Pacifism as well. I'd also propose that we get back into Slavery in order to rush basic infrastructure in our new towns, but also to rush Labs when we get to computers. Only Mansa and Sal are in Emancipation and we have quite a large happy surplus.

EDIT: Pigswill - did we have lots of Emancipation anger, or did you swap to grow cottages more rapidly?

Finally, I'll burn the GS on a fair chunk of Biology unless I hear to the contrary by tonight (CET).

EDIT: Biology would be a key part of the food and whip/specialists strategy I'd favour up until we're actually building spaceship parts.

I switched to emancipation for rapid cottage growth.

If we're sticking with specialist strategy then communism/SP is not a priority atm so better switching immediately to biology then maybe finish off steam power; railroads or AL after steam?

Pacifism sounds complementary to specialist strategy though its worth thinking abut which GP we need and how many.

pigswill said:

I switched to emancipation for rapid cottage growth.

If we're sticking with specialist strategy then communism/SP is not a priority atm so better switching immediately to biology then maybe finish off steam power; railroads or AL after steam?

Pacifism sounds complementary to specialist strategy though its worth thinking abut which GP we need and how many.

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Thanks for the info on emancipation.

I'm a bit of a space cadet in my private games and my standard beeline is Electricity-Radio-Computers. Then it depends on the situation whether I go for a beeline to Industrialism or to Rocketry. I need to check the tech situation in a bit more depth to be sure, but my feeling here is that we might go to Rocketry first seeing as we have good base production (and military) and then find out where the Alu is (Indy) to accelerate Apollo. I'd trade in Railroad and Combustion later, and potentially Steam too as the AI likes these techs. If we're lucky we might even trade in Assembly Line.

Specialist wise, they're all useful at this stage. Even if we get an Artist, we can save him to spark a GA with the Engineer from Fusion. A prophet can build another shrine or join Ulundi depending on the relative returns. Scientists are very useful and although I don't think we'll get an Engineer, if we did, we could maybe look at using 2 of them on most of the Space Elevator.

Finally, Commie is done in 1 and will allow the Kremlin which, with access to stone, will generate some reasonable payback, so I'll finish it off.

That was, well, a bit dull really. We're all snuggly with Sal and so, surprisingly, is Roosy. Boney's under the Arab yoke from here to eternity and only Mansa looks on, envious but ineffectual.

Sal has got Railroad, so when we finish Steam Power (and I think it's only needed after Computers) we can get it from him. Utica will complete the Kremlin in 2, but don't trade Commie to Sal until it's done, as he's got a Great Engineer hanging around.

I mainly spent the turnset setting up some irrigation chains in old Spain and for poor weedy ShortU. The cheeky wee city of Thaenae got founded just north of Carthage because, well, it uses some FPs that I couldn't bare to see wasted:



The rest of the time was spent on city micro and whipping. We had a GS that was burnt on Electricity and our next G-Man will be born in Cetoweyo in 4: should be a Prophet, but I'm running (short term) lots of Merchants as both would be nice settled in Ulundi. Carthage is working its cottages and running scientists. Ulundi's running merchants aplenty: we're just under break-even at 90% science. There's a city whose name escapes me that Sal is pressuring a bit, so it got a Stupa and is running two artists to try to claim back its fat cross. One piece of micro to note is that Seville's Observatory might as well be rushed after getting the chop benefit from a farm that's being clear-cut.

We hit 20 million citizens, woo for us:



The barb city of Scythian is garrisoned by 3 rifles. Our Eastern Army is keeping an eye on it (all fortified except a Jumbo). With Biology farms, I'd attack it at size 2 and keep it, but it's GreyFox's call, not mine.

Summary:

Heroic Epic - Utica
Globe Theater - Getoweyo
Wall Street - Ulundi
Oxford - Carthage
Forbidden Palace - Should decide ASAP
National Epic - Carthage
Iron Works -

Planed wars - None

==============

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Bede
Pigswill
Swiss Pauli
GreyFox (currently playing)

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: Space.

Agreed with previous player, indeed a nice change of pace without the war.

I didn't even bother to attack the barb city ... it is a crappy location, hard-pressed for food, we don't need more cities, and America is going to take care of it for us anyway.

Research wise: I got Radio and Computers as planned. Then decide to finish up the remaining two turns on Steam Power, before heading for Railroad. Thereafter, we should go for AssLine then Industrialism for Aluminium/Factories.







Wonders wise: We got Kremlin, and I go for Eiffel.



Great People wise, we have 2. First a prophet, then a scientists. Suggest keeping the prophet for a GA, and the scientist to lightbulb part of Fission.





Trade wise: I have renewed trades to squeeze as much gold from AIs as possible. Next player should try doing that again in his inherited turns.

Production wise: I have some cities set to produce research until computers is in, at which point they start building labs. One point of note is that production cities like Ulundi should build the lab as well, even though they have no need for science multiplier, reason being lab speed up space parts.

I have also been producing Bud Miss prior to computers. We only have 3 cities with Bud Monastries, so these 3 should concentrate on producing Bud Miss after building the lab, since each converted city brings 3gpt. I concentrated on converting the northeastern cities.

Civic-wise: End turn, some of our cities are being hit hard by Emancipation, one city even register as high as 6 unhappy faces for emancipation penalty. Thus I made a 3turns revolt (sorry, one turn will occur in the next player's initial turns).



It is my opnion that Bureaucracy's benefit is now far outweighed by Free Speech. I was contemplating on switching to UniSuff as well, since we have the Kremelin, it boost production, and the 3rd civic switch is free (changing 2 civics or 3 causes 3 turns of anarchy). However, I think right now we can benefit more from the representation bonus. We do not have that much money to rush things, and we are not in a hurry to rush things anyway ... research is currently still the bottleneck.

>>> The Save (1700AD) <<<

PS> LKendter, the FP is already built in Cetowayo (IIRC) prior to my turns

GreyFox said:

We do not have that much money to rush things, and we are not in a hurry to rush things anyway ... research is currently still the bottleneck.

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I like the Free Speech move: maybe I should have revolted to it when I went Slavery/Pacifism. Forgot to check it. However, I think you somewhat missed the point of my revolt to Slavery: it was to enable the slave-rushing of as many labs as possible (and then re-adopt emancipation). Looking at the save, I don't think you whipped any, and the whipping of the labs would have eliminated the odd citizen who was too angry to work because of emancipation pressure.

The longer I play civ4 (and the more I get stuck in my ways ) the less keen I am on whipping as a general strategy particularly in the late game. I'd rather having citizens turning cottages into towns than metamorphosing into 30 hammers (variable with speed)

pigswill said:

The longer I play civ4 (and the more I get stuck in my ways ) the less keen I am on whipping as a general strategy particularly in the late game. I'd rather having citizens turning cottages into towns than metamorphosing into 30 hammers (variable with speed)

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True, but when the whipped citizens are working mines (as they would mostly have been here) then whipping can still be very good for accelerating important infrastructure. Indeed I benchmarked my whipping strategy against the result of GreyFox turns and, though I whipped harder than I would have normally in order to revolt on the same date, I was just under 100bpt ahead in 1706 which will stretch, I believe, when all the cottages are again being worked.

Opps ... sorry, swiss ... I knew I am missing something ... But I usually don't whip a size >15 city ... the grow back period might not be worth the whip esp when the lab adds extra food leak if you are unhealthy. However I more I think abt it, I more I feel you might be right ... whipping the labs might yield slightly better results ...

Not trying to be defensive, but your benchmark is not a fair one since (1) I have been focusing on growth throughout my 15 turns instead of commerce like you did, figuring that it is better to have a large pop working on all cottages when lab is on-line, (2) I have a 3 turns revolt

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http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK125_AD-1740.zip

1700 AD
I don't see much to change except a few cities where I fire a specialist to get more shields to complete their buildings sooner.


1724 AD
(IT) We complete the Eiffel Tower.



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Summary:
Those 15 turns didn't feel like late game turns. All I did was worker actions, and a few building decisions. Most cities are working on long-term builds of labs or factories.

I set our next goal to be plastics (via construction) to see if we can get three gorges dam.

Heroic Epic - Utica
Globe Theater - Getoweyo
Wall Street - Ulundi
Oxford - Carthage
Forbidden Palace - Getoweyo
National Epic - Carthage
Iron Works -

Planed wars - None

==============

Signed up:
LKendter
Bede (currently playing)
Pigswill (on deck)
Swiss Pauli
GreyFox

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: Space.

LKendter said:

I set our next goal to be plastics (via construction) to see if we can get three gorges dam.

Win target: Space.

Click to expand...

Surely we want to get to Rocketry and start Apollo in Utica before Plastics? And can't we trade in combustion? And Assembly line, too?

Iron Works - already built in Utica some while ago.