East Asia mod?

Blue Monkey said:

Main Course -
Even though this conversation took place in Ogedei’s thread -
I’m not familiar with SE Asia prior to the Indianization era which is definitely CE. Even then, two of the three I’m familiar with are already made: Prambanam by Ogedei & Angkor Wat by Ukas with alternative splash by Rufas T Firefly. Borobudur has yet to be tackled as far as I know.

As you requested then, here are some ideas for


Ancient Indian Wonders

Stone Age

The Kupgal Singing Rocks are a location where natural resonance in the huge stones brings forth ringing tones when struck with rocks. There is also one spot that forms a sort of natural amplifier for the human voice. There is some evidence that the site has been “worked” to emphasize and tune these effects. It’s also notable that the tones evoked may have influenced the development of the mantras used in meditation.

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Mythic or Vedic Era
These wonders are associated with “legends from the mists of time”.

Dvaraka is the location of Krishna’s capital in the Mahabharata. It was supposed to be one of the most beautiful cities in the world. The whole city was deluged by the ocean after his death and lost forever.

The 7 Drowned Temples of Mahabalipuram are both legendary and historic (kind of like Camelot). The Indian Ocean Tsunami revealed buildings as it drew back prior to crashing into the shore. Several artifacts were washed ashore which date to the 7th century CE. There are stories of a much earlier (BCE) site, and some tentative underwater exploration, slightly to the north of the revealed buildings.

Juggernauts are not a building. They are giant chariots (45 ft. high) which are paraded on holy days in commemoration of Krishna and other heroes of the epics. They are still in use at present, however their use extends back to antiquity. There are even representations of them in stone, with rotatable wheels, at a few temples.

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Indus-Saraswati (Harappan) Civilization

The remains at Lothal of a Great Harbor are now often interpreted to be some other kind of structure. As a harbor it would include the earliest example of a tidal lock. This wonder would reinforce the reality that the Indus-Saraswati civilization was involved in extensive trade with other contemporary societies.

The Great Granary at Mohenjo-Daro is important because this and other cultures in India are centers of some of the earliest cultivation of barley, wheat, and cotton. I posted some reconstructions of the granary which Ogedei turned into a wonder.

The Harappans were noted for their systems of conduits and sewers, the earliest extant examples of such a civic project. The Great Bath at Mohenjo-Daro and the reservoirs at Dholavira are two wonder-worthy examples.

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Life of Buddha

Although the current structures are later-era elaborations all these sites are associated with major events in the life of Buddha and have been venerated since shortly after his parinirvana.

The Mahabodhi Temple encloses and protects the bodhi tree where he meditated and achieved enlightenment. The tree growing today, although ancient, is a replanting from a shoot of the original tree (which was taken to Sri Lanka by the children of Asoka, who had become Buddhist mendicants).

Sarnath is a venerable deer park where Buddha preached his first sermon.

The Great Stupa at Sanchi holds some important relics of the Buddha. Because of the sacredness of the relics pilgrims frequently took pieces of the stupa as souvenirs. They believed that since the stupa was in touch with the relics some of their spiritual power was transferred to the stones. So successive kings enclosed the structure with larger, more embellished stupas in order to further protect the actual relics.
Ogedei made us a wonder of the current structure which is the elaboration sponsored by Ashoka.

Sri Dalada Maligawa temple is the current location of the Relic of Buddha’s Tooth. Wars have been fought over this wonder. In fact, a wuxia film funded by the Chinese government features the tooth as its macguffin.

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Life of Mahavira (Jain Religion)

Mahavira, a contemporary of Gautama Buddha, was the last and best known of the Jain Tirthankaras. As with many other of these potential wonders, the extant structures are from later eras. It’s the practice in India to continually rebuild and extend sacred complexes. We do the same thing; the Vatican is a perfect example.

Rajgriha Temple was the site of one of the earliest Jain temples.

The Chandragiri temple complex is also important.

My choice for a Jain wonder would be Shri Sammet Shikharji. It's the Jain practice for their spiritually advanced members to become increasingly reclusive. Entire communities grow around these locations, which become much more than just temple complexes. This is the site where 20 of the 24 Tirthankaras achieved moksha.

Here is a gallery I put together of many of the Jain sacred sites.

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Later BCE

Ashoka’s Pillars or Rock Edicts proclaimed his laws, and more importantly the social contract in which he expected all of his subjects to participate. It has the same importance in Indian history as the Hammurabi stele did for the Babylonians. further more, since he used multiple languages to serve the various ethnic groups under his rule, they have become a kind of Indian Rosetta Stone.

There are many monasteries and temple complexes throughout India made by enlarging caves or hewn from solid rock. The Ajanta Cave Temples is one of the best known sites. The earliest use dates back to BCE, although the more elaborate caves are from CE. It is famous for its many murals, which depict both Hindu & Buddhist subjects.

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Wootz is a superior type of steel produced in classical India. It became known in the West as Damascus steel because of intermediary traders & its use in Middle Eastern swords. The Iron Pillar of Delhi is a wonder that demonstrates the advanced metallurgical skills of Indian craftsmen.

The Giant Buddhas of Bamiyan were one of the major pilgrimage & secular tourism sites along the Kushan Empire section of the Silk Road. This post describes how they looked in their heyday.

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Blue Monkey said:

Dessert - Whichever of these wonders you decide to include I’d be happy to help with concept art, pedia descriptions, & related tech icons.




EDIT: Walking around in the rain on my never ending quest for beef jerky & gummi bears I suddenly remembered the Plain of Jars. Laotian wonder anyone?

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Ogedei_the_Mad said:

@Blue Monkey: My to-do list just keeps getting longer.

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1. "Great Baths" should be singular; it was one "tank" (pool), not a collection as a Graeco-Roman "bath" might be.
   
2. Change the "Temple of Khajuraho" to "Khajuraho Sun Temple" - there are many temples at Khajuraho; the Sun Temple is the main one tourists got to see, and the one that set the architectural standard for temples across India.
   
3. "Mahabhodi" should be "Mahabodhi Temple" (or Shrine) the name by itself refers to the tree, the second to the whole architectural complex built up around it.
   
4. It's fine to not have an India-specific government; "Raja" means king, "Maharaja" = Great King, "Vartin" = Emperor.
   
5. In classical India the secret police / spies were called "Eyes of the King"; maybe a similar name would give a little more flavor to the "Den of Spies" wonder yet be generic enough for all the civs.
   
6. I'd substitute "Dharma Yoga" for the "Prajna" tech - the name is inclusive of Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, & even Sikh practices & translates roughly as "the spiritual path of right living".
   
7. What is the "Sila" tech?

Yoda Power said:

6 & 7. Prajna will stay as it is. So will Sila, and in the last era I'll add Samadhi. They will replace the spaceship giving the parts: 1. Right view, 2. Right intention, 3. Right speech, 4. Right action, 5. Right livelihood, 6. Right effort, 7. Right mindfulness and 8. Right concentration leading to Nirvana. And then you win.

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Ogedei_the_Mad said:

"Printing" could come after examinations or maybe even replace it. Printing is too important a technology to leave out and many of the civs involved (including Tibetans and Uighurs) made use of it.

Anyways, here's examples of how I set up the tech tree for my indefinitely-on-hiatus East Asia mod:
Era 1


Era 2


Era 3


Era 4


I've noticed that "Advanced Calendars" appears twice; the second one was supposed to be "Jesuit Astronomy."

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ohcrapitsnico said:

^^ What about the thing(my mind draws a blank) where people took entrance exams before taking government/bureaucratic positions? I think it may be called meritocracy.

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ohcrapitsnico said:

Oh and this really looks interesting, one of the few civ3 mods I'll look at especially since YP is working on it. All the best and I'll be waiting for the end result. If I think of any suggestions/ideas I'll let you know.

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Blue Monkey said:

Now I understand where you are going with that tech line. In the Bharata Varsha (Greater India) mod I'm slowly planning out one of the culture groups I'm developing is the "Mythologicals" - including the Shambhalan civ. You've given me a great idea for a culture group specific victory path. Thanks.

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Yoda Power said:

I guess I can add Printing into the third era, and make it give communication trade.

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Blue Monkey said:

In fact the wood blocks used are thought by many to be a precursor to the printing techniques which were developed in China.

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Blue Monkey said:

Mythic or Vedic Era
These wonders are associated with “legends from the mists of time”.

Dvaraka is the location of Krishna’s capital in the Mahabharata. It was supposed to be one of the most beautiful cities in the world. The whole city was deluged by the ocean after his death and lost forever.

The 7 Drowned Temples of Mahabalipuram are both legendary and historic (kind of like Camelot). The Indian Ocean Tsunami revealed buildings as it drew back prior to crashing into the shore. Several artifacts were washed ashore which date to the 7th century CE. There are stories of a much earlier (BCE) site, and some tentative underwater exploration, slightly to the north of the revealed buildings.

Juggernauts are not a building. They are giant chariots (45 ft. high) which are paraded on holy days in commemoration of Krishna and other heroes of the epics. They are still in use at present, however their use extends back to antiquity. There are even representations of them in stone, with rotatable wheels, at a few temples.

Click to expand...

Yoda Power said:

I'm not too happy about mythical wonders. I might aswell leave the mystic stuff to Ogedeis mod.
This mod should be (somewhat) strictly historical.

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Yoda Power said:

Points taken, I'll see what I can do.

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