BirdNES 2: Forge of Empires -- The Animas Valley

Ah causality. Perhaps someone had the idea of human-pulled carts, then thought, what if we could use these really large beasts to pull them? Hmm, if they were smaller...

Say! These ones are slightly smaller. They would be better for my purposes.

Selective breeding can do wonders.
 
Why would someone without the foreknowledge of chariots or horses decide to breed an elephant to be smaller?

Can be more easily tamed, don't need as much food, can be controlled more easily and etc? :confused: Necessity is the mother of invention as I've read in the terrible book that is Water for Chocolate :eek:
 
Ah causality. Perhaps someone had the idea of human-pulled carts, then thought, what if we could use these really large beasts to pull them? Hmm, if they were smaller...

Say! These ones are slightly smaller. They would be better for my purposes.

Selective breeding can do wonders.

Two things:

1) You can pile goods on an elephant's back, and it can pick them up in its trunk. Both capacities would be diminished by smaller creatures. You also have to consider that hooking up a small draft animal to a cart would not be conceivable in this cradle. All in all, they might as well just build a big cart.

2) To selectively breed, you need to domesticate the creature. Elephants have never been domesticated, only tamed. This is a significant difference from other draft animals.

Necessity is the mother of invention

Incorrect; I cite the numerous examples of technology that never went anywhere in real history.
 
There's nothing preventing elephant specialization, with heavy elephants and light elephants.
 
Why would someone without the foreknowledge of chariots or horses decide to breed an elephant to be smaller?

We don't have the foreknowledge of horses, except for Charles Li ofcourse.
 
There's nothing preventing elephant specialization, with heavy elephants and light elephants.

Except that no one's domesticated elephants.

We don't have the foreknowledge of horses, except for Charles Li ofcourse.

And since for the most part we don't, I say that the likelihood of someone engineering elephants to be hitchable to horses is minimal. At best.
 
2) To selectively breed, you need to domesticate the creature. Elephants have never been domesticated, only tamed. This is a significant difference from other draft animals.

Manonash Lurker: Sorry to come in here but what kind of elephants are in your cradle. There are domesticated indian elephants for what I have heard and read. However if they are African sized elephants then your right they have not been domesticated.
 
Manonash Lurker: Sorry to come in here but what kind of elephants are in your cradle. There are domesticated indian elephants for what I have heard and read. However if they are African sized elephants then your right they have not been domesticated.

Indian elephants are tamed, not domesticated. There is a significant difference.
 
How would elephants' social structures and lifespans affect artificial intervention in their genetic makeup attempts at domesticating them?
 
How would elephants' social structures and lifespans affect artificial intervention in their genetic makeup attempts at domesticating them?

I saw the question, it's just that I'm hardly a biologist. I would assume that the elephant's long lifespan would seriously hurt any attempts at breeding; as for the social structure, it looks as though they aren't quite as... shall we say, generous... with their breeding habits, which would also hamper domestication attempts.
 
How would elephants' social structures and lifespans affect artificial intervention in their genetic makeup attempts at domesticating them?

1) Elephants are pretty damn large - this makes it expensive to keep a breeding herd around. Much easier to tame wild examples.
2) Elephants don't mate that often, and tend to be quite insistent when they do - this makes it very expensive and difficult to control production of offspring. Also see Musth
3) Elephants are long lived - 70+ years (much longer than the bronze age human life span), it'll be about 3-4 generations for you to produce something you want, you'll be operating at a loss all that time, and you need to effectively communicaate to your great grandson what you were looking to produce. Compare this to dogs/horses/sheep, where you can get 3-5 generations within a human lifetime.
4) The large majority of elephants are total gits, don't like being tamed, and tend to stampede or rampage (and are one of the worlds most dangerious animals) - pre-concrete structures you'll have great trouble containing them, and that'll set you back to square 1.
5) We don't know if elephant hereditary is particulary aminable to selective breeding, it could be 10 or more generations to breed out a domesticable strain.

In summary it might not work, and its never going to be worth it.
 
Hey BJ, if you give me a few hours I can get orders in.
 
Thanks! Orders have been sent. Let me know if you have questions/don't like their style.
 
My thing is posted in General. Orders nowish. I'm so elated you havenb't updated yet(which will be the only time i post that sentiment)
 
Orders in, I forgot to put story links in though :(
 
Because sooner is better than later, because, in this case, shorter is probably better than longer and because a map and stats are better than text...(It is a bit weak, I know.)

The Animas Valley​
Update Zero: Foundations, 100 years of building​

The palace of the old Nazarian kings was hardly better 100 years after the last of that line died out. The usurpers of the name and lands were mostly brigands and warlords from the fiefdoms that had once been an empire of some greatness. “Old Nazar” as each of the succeeding kings was called, was not old and his name was not “Nazar” as his title might indicate. Nazar Mufti was his official title and the name inscribed upon the many monuments he dedicated to himself around the city.

Several kings and 30 years ago the Nazar had been attacked by the Ereva from upriver, and lost the rich provinces at the river mouth. His now dead and nameless predecessor had been taken by surprise and beaten badly. The Erevan king snatched the richest lands and now controlled the river from the sea many miles upriver. Rumors from the north told Mufti that the Ereva were reading again for war and he needed to be ready. His spies would be in attendance after lunch and into tomorrow to give him the news from all the northern lands. His warlord neighbors were not reliable allies and bribes may be in order, he thought to himself

Those traveling the furthest were first in attendance and brought news from the far north lands of the Hinsa Hinga and Asran. Both appeared to have grown in strength over the years and the Asran were clearly warlike and barbarous. But they were both too far to be of any trouble to him or to ally with the Ereva. One spy who seemed a bit brighter than the others mentioned that among the Hinsa there was talk of a new and powerful bow that could pierce the bronze armor of the highest quality. Mufti tended to doubt such fanciful stories and reprimanded the unfortunate fellow and told him not to return again unless he had such a “magical” bow to back up his errant words.

Closer to home were the Ksiliotai along the western branches of the Animas and bear people of the great confluence where the two branches of the mother river came together to make a single mighty flow. The Prydda’annwfyn lived in caves and roamed the forests of the central valley like their namesake. Everything Mufti heard led him to believe they were a primitive and uncivilized species of subhuman who grunted rather than spoke. Few visited them and usually only by river where goods would be traded along rocky banks with quiet pools. It was not custom to travel through the “bear” nation so most traders used them as a middle man rather than risk the strange wildness of their domain. None knew what they would do if provoked even though they were rarely seen outside of their dark gloomy woodlands.

The Ksiliotai were another matter entirely. Their expansive domain controlled the west branch of the Animas and few challenged their supremacy. They warred for slaves to farm their lands and build their cities. In Egroiokos, their capital it was rumored that new rulers feed upon the bodies of those they depose. According to the spy the current ruler was Egrois Erutogeros. If the stories were true, such a man might be useful to the Nazar. He would contact him.

His spies sent to Opulenth and Sedaya had not returned and so he would have to leave those nations out of his plans. It was a pity. He had heard that the king of Opulenth was quite wealthy.

Towards the end of two days of reports Multi was tired and ready for the cool sea breezes of his garden and the sweet perfume of his whores, or as he was supposed to call them, his concubines. Four scumbags brought him the remaining news he was after. One was up from Luallen in the south. It was an island nation and of little concern to him. They had been expanding in recent years and were proficient sailors from what he had been told, but they were neither at war nor preparing for war. When he learned they are ruled by women he laughed out loud and sent his informant away with a wave and more laughter. There was nothing to fear from Luallen.

The jungle loving Shekek were far away and entombed in the never ending struggle to rid themselves of growing plants. He would not worry about them. His spies assured him that they had no army and even if they did there was no way to get it from there to here before they were all long dead. Mufti pondered the Kana. They were close. They had an army and seemed a viable contender for long term success in their region. And they bordered the hated Ereva on the east. This might be the opportunity he was looking for to reclaim the glory of old Nazar and set that upstart Drusis reeling back to his riverside mud hut.

Of the Ereva he knew a bit. They were well armed and armored with the best quality bronze equipment. In the last war they used their elephants wisely and with effect. He would not underestimate them as had the previous Nazars. Tomorrow he would meet with his generals and two key warlords who stood between him and the Ereva. After that he would send runners to the Ksiliotai and the Kana with treaties and entanglements. It would be a glorious war.

Diplomacy:

From Nazar Mufti
To Ksiliotai and Kana

War is at hand and the safety of all our rich valley is at stake. The Ereva prey upon nation after nation in search of our tin mines. We have been most generous with it and allowed traders throughout the valley engage in its buying and selling. Should Nazzar fall to the devil king of Ereva, he will claim those mines as his own and restrict access to those he favors. Now is the time to stop him. Stop him dead. Join me; join the Nazar of the Animas as we put the upstart turkey herders to flight and shame.

Notes:
Confidence in your leadership is improving for many of your nations; your target should be at least 50%, if not higher. If your nation is still less than 35% you better find a way to instill confidence in your people soon or they are apt to turn against you.
At the moment all economies are running at 100%.
Order bonus: Veriily, +1 to treasury
Please include new rulers and heirs with your next orders if they change.
Some of you are permitted to include a Policy with your next orders. Congratulations.
Keep an eye on your troop maximum when buying troop, but don’t worry if buying 1 EPs worth puts you a few hundred over, I will “fix it” so you don’t lose or waste money.
 
Update zero Animas map.
 

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