Virote's Ancient Greek Scenario - Public Alpha

CivChris said:

i`ve tried a play with the redone map, i`m half way through the archaic times and it seems it works quite fine so far.

i set research rates to min. 8 and max. 25 and it seems all ais are developing really good at times too good ( thrace got greek hoplites already since they have no complete tech tree)

but the "finished" ai`s like thebes, elis and sparta seem to do better, having heroic warriors, amazons and satyrs walking around.

so it might be no bad idea to set a research limit so even the low developed countries will go for some power.

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Sounds good. I hadn't thought of giving the backwards AI such a leg up, actually! It think I'll implement this idea

CivChris said:

and babylonia and india seem to conquer the persian empire

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Sounds like they got very lucky! How far did their conquests take them?

CivChris said:

found another missing entry:

art/uniuts mycenean chariot/ mycenean chariot .ini

one of the ai was building a doric chariot, wich caused the game to crash..
i was wondering, but i think i have not build any of these back in the other game

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Updated. Check first post for new Pediaicons!

CivChris said:

well it could go along greeks techs along like the bosporian kingdom cause it was well influneced through the greek colonisation and the slave trade with the greeks.

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I'll think about it, although this will leave the Macedonian tree with only 2 civs...

I'm actually thinking of merging the Trade and Colony tech trees, since they will both run on good navies, bad-ish land forces and building. This will a) give the player more than 1 victory condition which they could attempt to grasp b) allow the civs much more than amount of improvements than they otherwise would (I'm not going to split the "extra" improvements out among all the trees, but instead I'll give 1/2 of the "extra" improvements to the "Trade-Colony" tree, and half to the Persian/Egyptian/Babylonian tree (which will need the extra slots!)

CivChris said:

so, did you get any of the euromillions for the source code?

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Nope. Not a penny

Sounds like they got very lucky! How far did their conquests take them?

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hm quite far, india, wich always stikes in its north west has taken the bacrtian lands, babylon has captured cities to its east including persepolis, but i`m sure this is only cause i messed with the editor
tried to implement your idea with the free units and unit malus for each city,
and thus changed some of the parameters for the persian government wich very likely caused this deaster

I'm actually thinking of merging the Trade and Colony tech trees, since they will both run on good navies, bad-ish land forces and building. This will a) give the player more than 1 victory condition which they could attempt to grasp b) allow the civs much more than amount of improvements than they otherwise would (I'm not going to split the "extra" improvements out among all the trees, but instead I'll give 1/2 of the "extra" improvements to the "Trade-Colony" tree, and half to the Persian/Egyptian/Babylonian tree (which will need the extra slots!)

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sounds good to me, trade and colonys, well one goes along the other, for many colonys were build as tradepoints.
a) giving more than 1 VC sounds more than good, although there will be many civs and with it many VCs for the player, it is always good to leave the player the oportunity to lead his civ to diffrent goals.
b) sounds perfect again, i, for myself, can get bored, if there are no shiny new building for my cities coming all along


ah since i made my way to keroros alexanders conqest (was quite difficult to get all the files together )

how about using his "mine" graphics? i think they really look perfect like little villages actually, wich gives the map a real "inhabitant" look.

ah and i forgot just came to my mind

might add atmosphere renaming some civs:
Athen civ to Attica or Attiki
Thebes civ to Boiotia or Boeotia
Argos civ to Argolis
Sparta civ to Laconia or Lacedaemonia
Thessaly civ to Thessalia

corinth civ could be Isthmia, but in this case i`d rather stick with corinth

CivChris said:

hm quite far, india, wich always stikes in its north west has taken the bacrtian lands, babylon has captured cities to its east including persepolis, but i`m sure this is only cause i messed with the editor
tried to implement your idea with the free units and unit malus for each city,
and thus changed some of the parameters for the persian government wich very likely caused this deaster

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India and Persia control the same starting government, so I guess the only reason Persia did so bad is because they were fighting a war on two fronts...

I'm glad that Persia seem to always get muddled up in wars with India and Babylon in your games. This is what I want to happen in general, but I plan to make Persia to get better bonuses (units, a better gov't) sooner than India, and much sooner (enough to make a decent impact) than Babylon.

CivChris said:

sounds good to me, trade and colonys, well one goes along the other, for many colonys were build as tradepoints.
a) giving more than 1 VC sounds more than good, although there will be many civs and with it many VCs for the player, it is always good to leave the player the oportunity to lead his civ to diffrent goals.
b) sounds perfect again, i, for myself, can get bored, if there are no shiny new building for my cities coming all along

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Same. I am a bit of a builder...

CivChris said:

ah since i made my way to keroros alexanders conqest (was quite difficult to get all the files together )

how about using his "mine" graphics? i think they really look perfect like little villages actually, wich gives the map a real "inhabitant" look.

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Hopefully, when he finishes and releases his "inhabited" roads, I'll add them in.

CivChris said:

ah and i forgot just came to my mind

might add atmosphere renaming some civs:
Athen civ to Attica or Attiki
Thebes civ to Boiotia or Boeotia
Argos civ to Argolis
Sparta civ to Laconia or Lacedaemonia
Thessaly civ to Thessalia

corinth civ could be Isthmia, but in this case i`d rather stick with corinth

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I was thinking of this only half an hour ago! The conclusion which I came to, is that not only would most people know that, for example, Athens was the chief city of Attica, but they would most likely feel more of a connection when playing the civ to the primary city than the broader region.

India and Persia control the same starting government, so I guess the only reason Persia did so bad is because they were fighting a war on two fronts...

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ah had not checked for that, so it might really be due to the 2 front war and a lil to the units limitation.

I'm glad that Persia seem to always get muddled up in wars with India and Babylon in your games. This is what I want to happen in general, but I plan to make Persia to get better bonuses (units, a better gov't) sooner than India, and much sooner (enough to make a decent impact) than Babylon.

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yepp, they always get on one another, in the other game persia was just acting like "historic" first taking out the newbabylonian empire then going for lydia and fighting the indians all along
ok they missed egypt.. but well nobodys perfect

Hopefully, when he finishes and releases his "inhabited" roads, I'll add them in.

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uh right i`ve read something like that a while back, that`ll add much of atmosphere for sure!

I was thinking of this only half an hour ago! The conclusion which I came to, is that not only would most people know that, for example, Athens was the chief city of Attica, but they would most likely feel more of a connection when playing the civ to the primary city than the broader region.

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well there we go again with "fame" and accuracy
but i guess you are right,most players would rather play athens than attiki....
and after all its a game no hostory lesson

hope your update is doing fine so far, only 2 more weeks till end of the month

since the trun times have not changed much in my changed version
had been toying with the alexanders conquest, well changing the map that is

ah and since i changed the corruption level to the 100% as you said, everything is slowed down a bit for me, wich seems to be quite perfect compared to timescale and the other civs.

CivChris said:

ah had not checked for that, so it might really be due to the 2 front war and a lil to the units limitation.

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That sounds it to me, too!

Hopefully, India and Babylon will both over-extend themselves, and the roles will be reversed

CivChris said:

yepp, they always get on one another, in the other game persia was just acting like "historic" first taking out the newbabylonian empire then going for lydia and fighting the indians all along
ok they missed egypt.. but well nobodys perfect

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Who's to say they wouldn't have taken Egypt after they'd finished off Lydia and Babylon?

CivChris said:

uh right i`ve read something like that a while back, that`ll add much of atmosphere for sure!

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I think so, too. You may see a couple of "inhabited" roads in-game, although it is only a couple of road graphics which I did, to get the general feel.

CivChris said:

well there we go again with "fame" and accuracy
but i guess you are right,most players would rather play athens than attiki....
and after all its a game no hostory lesson

hope your update is doing fine so far, only 2 more weeks till end of the month

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It's going fairly smoothly; just the improvements (which are done "on paper") and the Citizens to go, so should be in almost no time at all!

CivChris said:

since the trun times have not changed much in my changed version
had been toying with the alexanders conquest, well changing the map that is

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So I saw. IMO, it is a very well made scenario You should try playing it, if you feel like something different to mine. It's sort of like RFRE, but in a time period I'm more familiar with!

CivChris said:

ah and since i changed the corruption level to the 100% as you said, everything is slowed down a bit for me, wich seems to be quite perfect compared to timescale and the other civs.

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Nice, nice!

Well, I'm just pre-alpha testing the latest release, which mostly focuses on Scythia. They have a new tech tree, and complete unit, building and citizen lines! Their new capital at Gelonus is also pretty good, situated on a river, and with surrounding resources enabling it to build the Temple of Aphrodite! (which allows a size 3 city)

Growth is slow, and the beginning of the game can be tediously slow, as there is an emphasis on Defense or Exploring. Furthermore, they cannot build any "proper" workers until later in the game, although they do have other units that can do worker jobs (all be it very slowly- extremely slowly on the all-important Steppes!) You can also capture enemy workers (which now all cost 2 pop, giving 2 slaves) and settlers (usually around 4 pop.). For example, these units came from an unguarded Bosporan Settler (who I was at war with ):


Your Settlers are only 2 pop. to start with. However, the slow growth of the Great Steppes and the related problems means that settling still takes a very large toll on your economy, so you'll probably end up with less settlers at first than your opponents. Pontus here (who I'm currently at war with) has at least 3 new cities:


The Steppe Chariot is a useful unit, available whenever you gain Horses (at Husbandry), its the first offensive unit you can build. They helped me take many workers and Olbia in my wars against the Bosporan. Olbia itself is now under siege:


Finally, here's a screenshot of Pontus attacking the Caucasus (I think that's spelt correctly):

What on earth is that unit squatting like a member of Metallica, with the loincloth? It's really quite... ugly.

Those screenies look absolutly amazing though! I can't wait for the full version! Hopefully I'll have time to play it when it's released!

@ Virote:

all looks fantastic can`t wait for the next release
will you only finish up the skythians or will other civs get some finishing as well?

the pontos greeks got 3 settlers already in 900BC might be a bit much, considered all the other civs the med itself might be all settled when you come to the colonization techs...

didin`t you speak of the idea to restrict settling more to med itself somewhere? that might really be a good idea, before sparta ends up with a vast empire in the south africa or china


@ Quinzy:

i think that unit serves as babarian guard, if i`m not mistaken he comes from the great lost civs mod, where he served as tribal guardian

but you`re damn right about him beeing ugly, i always wondered why they woud have a Neanderthal Man to guard their otherwise more homo sapiens looking tribe

Quinzy said:

What on earth is that unit squatting like a member of Metallica, with the loincloth? It's really quite... ugly.

Those screenies look absolutly amazing though! I can't wait for the full version! Hopefully I'll have time to play it when it's released!

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Thanks.

The squating Metallica guy is a Tribal Spearman. I think it was made by Kindred72, although don't quote me on that

In-game, I use it as an immobile defensive unit, which is pre-placed in specific areas of the map (e.g. guarding passes, or allowing access by only specific civs to VPL's)

CivChris said:

@ Virote:

all looks fantastic can`t wait for the next release
will you only finish up the skythians or will other civs get some finishing as well?

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Just the Scythians, this round, although a few civs will have some techs (Thrace, Dacia+Illyria will have a few of the Scythian techs, the Celts+Etruria will have the same techs, plus their culture techs), and those civs will also have many of the improvements/wonders which are also available to Scythia, too

CivChris said:

the pontos greeks got 3 settlers already in 900BC might be a bit much, considered all the other civs the med itself might be all settled when you come to the colonization techs...

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I know... I guess I should up their cost, and increase the pop. cost to a devastating 5 citizens!

CivChris said:

didin`t you speak of the idea to restrict settling more to med itself somewhere? that might really be a good idea, before sparta ends up with a vast empire in the south africa or china

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Terrain was already restricted enough in that sense. However, in the new version, there will be a line of LM Mountains along the Thracian border (where those hills are), with the occasional pre-placed Immobile Guard (assigned to Thrace), blocking up a couple of passages, leaving (early) access only to Thrace.

CivChris said:

@ Quinzy:

i think that unit serves as babarian guard, if i`m not mistaken he comes from the great lost civs mod, where he served as tribal guardian

but you`re damn right about him beeing ugly, i always wondered why they woud have a Neanderthal Man to guard their otherwise more homo sapiens looking tribe

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I quite like the unit, myself...

New update posted

update

had a glance on the biq by the editor and it looks very promising

i like the greek heroes, are they capturable? like you have to free them from the babarians that hold them captive?
and atlantis I´m eager to find out how that will work out in game, quite a long way to go by sea

some minor thing i`ve not realized by myself till now...
although all civs will be playable the mod focuses more on greece culture and myths, so renaming some cities should be neccessary, all endings on "um" should go to "on" and all "us" to "os".
since all um`s and us`s are latin and would just not be fitting

as for playing....

pediaicons.txt animname_prto_barb_barb_immobile_champ is missing, so it crashes right at the start

since i changed keroros alexanders map, i found some new nice solutions for some more coastlines and a better mesopotamia look. i`ll try to fit them into your map so you can check later on if they would be fitting. since minor map changes won`t really effect the gameplay itself, cause i haven`t checked for all areas by now and i`m thinking on keroros idea to have shipable euphrates, tigris and indus as well ganges, to get the right "feeling" for those affected civs.

but as said map changes are minor things, the techtree and completion of the various civs is more important (i really hope to be able to play as athens or persia soon )

CivChris said:

update

had a glance on the biq by the editor and it looks very promising

i like the greek heroes, are they capturable? like you have to free them from the babarians that hold them captive?
and atlantis I´m eager to find out how that will work out in game, quite a long way to go by sea

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Yeah, the Heroes are capturable. I'll be adding more as the mod progresses!

CivChris said:

some minor thing i`ve not realized by myself till now...
although all civs will be playable the mod focuses more on greece culture and myths, so renaming some cities should be neccessary, all endings on "um" should go to "on" and all "us" to "os".
since all um`s and us`s are latin and would just not be fitting

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I really should do this, although I'm partial to the Romanizations just because I'm more used to them...

CivChris said:

as for playing....

pediaicons.txt animname_prto_barb_barb_immobile_champ is missing, so it crashes right at the start

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I'll change this when I get back home. For now, you can fix it yourself, in the editor. It should be one of the last units on the list. You should (by the looks of it) change the first "_barb_" to "_BAR_"

CivChris said:

since i changed keroros alexanders map, i found some new nice solutions for some more coastlines and a better mesopotamia look. i`ll try to fit them into your map so you can check later on if they would be fitting. since minor map changes won`t really effect the gameplay itself, cause i haven`t checked for all areas by now and i`m thinking on keroros idea to have shipable euphrates, tigris and indus as well ganges, to get the right "feeling" for those affected civs.

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Sounds great

CivChris said:

but as said map changes are minor things, the techtree and completion of the various civs is more important (i really hope to be able to play as athens or persia soon )

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Athens will be next, I think. Persia may take a while, just because they need a lot of extra improvements/wonders, so they'll need to grab any free slots...

Turns out it was a pediaicons problem...

ViroteGreecePediaicons.zip

like always, extract the update into your "ViroteGreece\Text" folder.

This is also being posted in the first post.

hm... din`t have much time to play lately :-(

so (not just to keep this in the front row of interest) i wonder if you`ve gotten any further with it virote?

i`ve cechekt for the scythian update, but to be honest... they are just not my tipe of civ to pick out

meaning: i`m despreatly waiting for athens and a diffrent view from the doric one that i`ve played quite a lot...

I haven't spent much time on the mod, although Athens are well under way, ATM

The tech tree is done, and I'm now adding the units.

In the early game, Athens is going to focus on the defensive. Their early units (particularly offensive ones) will be very expensive, although they will have a good defensive starting unit, and one of the earliest siege units in the game.

Naval warfare and Culture are where Athens will reign supreme, with many useful ships right from the start of the game, and many high-culture producing wonders, which can only be built in the capital. With a fair bit of tweaking, Athens will be in line to win a one-city cultural victory.

Update posted! The update allows a playable Athens.

A note for when you get to the Archaic era as Athens- there is a tech (Tyranny) which, due to gameplay reasons, comes a long time in the era after I would have Athens research it. However, the Turannos government, and a Tyrant unit (upgrade to their king) both come much earlier in the scenario. The current tech only really allows a powerful Tyranny-based wonder, so it may be renamed at a later interval...

Work on the trade tech tree is now coming along smoothly - if slowly! The tech tree is pretty much all panned out, and I've also made most governments now work on the "new system" of unit maintenance.

I've finished the trade government, and I'm now working on the units. Here's a little teaser, a Lydian scout finding himself in a spot of bother!

"Holy Jason & The Argonauts, Batman!"

damn had to go through quite some pages to find it again

so any news on this? haven`t checked it for a while and as i cramped out my civ i went for a lil greek game, but abandned it due to the trun times

there must be a way to get it faster

i hope you`re still on this virote and just have a break cause of summer

Hey there. I'm still working on it! (albeit a little too slowly )

Sorry about the turn times, I dunno how to reduce them, really. From what I've noticed, they die down a considerable amount after a few turns (5-10, IIRC). I think the initial turn times are caused partially by the barbarians attacking cities (this definitely causes a large lag when I watch them do it...)