DMOC's Immortal Game #2 - Boudica

Round 5: 65 BC to 385 AD (31 Turns)

Well, we finally got to see some wars go on.

First of all, to begin the round, I researched Priesthood knowing that it was an optional prerequisite of Code of Laws and therefore it would reduce the time needed for CoL.

Well...it didn'nt. CoL cost 852 beakers before Priesthood and afterwards. ???

Anyway, I finished the tech in a timely manner, with only Pacal II knowing it prior to my discovery.



Next up, Civil Service.

Sitting Bull asks me to cancel deals with Mao...no no no.

I made this deal with Gilgamesh.



I have two wine sources in my territory. By the way, that trade above was full price (Gilgamesh had 100 gold in his treasury).

Finally, after some chopping, whipping, and slow, slogging production, I managed to muster enough forces to feel safe for a declaration of war.



Darius I has monarchy, but not feudalism, so I shouldn't be seeing any longbows (and I didn't this round).

I also bribed Mao in the war. Mao was either pleased or friendly with Darius when I bribed him (I swear that at one point he was friendly with Darius this round, though it might have dropped to pleased for that one turn. What a backstabber). In the future, with Mao in the game, I will definitely try and use him as bribing bait considering that he's willing to declare on anyone at pleased stance (check the screenshot). The weird thing is, he's annoyed with Sitting Bull yet Mao won't declare on him.



I also made this trade with Pacal, again at full price.



Several turns into the war, I managed to reach Susa, and was surprised at how weakly defended it was. Darius didn't even try to whip some units.



At the cost of one catapult, I captured the city, and kept it, knowing that if I razed it another AI would just resettle a city there.

After a few turns of healing/recuperating (I forgot a medic! ) I assaulted the capital, which was also weakly defended. This must explain why Darius and I were neck-to-neck on the power graph. He should have whipped another crossbow considering he had Machinery for a while.



At the cost of two catapults, I attacked the city and burned it to the ground.




















Kidding, I kept it. Check out the loot!



2 wonders and a scotland yard! No more barb concerns now.

Mao also proved he was no slouch either and captured a marginal southern city of Darius, who is now reduced to two cities.

Civil Service was researched while the bulk of my forces were resting in Persepolis, and I ended the round. I was first to Civil Service, by the way.

[To be continued in next post]

[Continued from previous post]



Note: All images in the second installment are in spoilers again since I made them bigger and the pages in this thread are likely to be image - heavy.

The main decision that I have now is whether to continue the war or not. On the plus side, Darius is weakened so there is likely to be little left of him. On the minus side, one of his cities is poorly placed. If I continue the war, it will likely be to capture the northern city, Pasargadae, which is a great cottage site despite that its got some impassable ice. Darius, as of now, has three cities left (one isn't visible -- it's to Pasargadae's west).

Here's the city Mao captured:



Nothing particularly dangerous.

Darius is willing to throw in the towel.



I could probably see if I could get some more expensive techs, seeing as the gold Darius is offering is all he has left. If I am forced to take this, I will just remove Meditation because I can research it quickly.

My plan, though, is to continue the war, scouting out Darius's new capital. If it's capturable, I will attack it. If not, I will sue for peace as Darius won't ever be a threat again.

In terms of technology, here's what I can research.



I'm thinking of going the Aesthetics/Literature path to unlock the epics and then from there go Paper > Education. Pacal II is the only AI with Aesthetics (and Literature as well).

I also have a settler hanging around, waiting for this city to be founded.



The settler has been there before the war, and now that it is nearing completion, I will probably settle the city first thing next round, but cottaging it. Vienne, one of my three core cities, is producing enough Great Person points and has enough food.


Now for some in-depth stuff.

Domestic advisor.



Technology advisor. I have Civil Service on everyone.



Power graph. See Darius' drop in power.



Map of my west lands, which is producing the vast majority of my commerce.



Map of the east.





So this is my plan that I will follow. Feel free to add/criticize/congratulate (especially congratulate).

I will basically check to see if I can capture Pasargadae. If I can, then I'll do it and keep it as it is another great commerce site. Persepolis is even better with its two irrigated corn. After capturing Pasargadae, I'll just raze Darius' last two cities if Mao hasn't gotten it already so my cities aren't unhappy.

In terms of research, go Aesthetics/Literature then Paper/Education. I shouldn't have much of a problem raising my beaker count. Charismatic is doing a GREAT job here as you can see my top 3 cities are all size 9-10 and Vienne could be size 11. With representation, that's basically 3 extra population points for me, so my cities will have very high populations pre-1000 AD.

For Great People, Vienne is 16 turns away from my second Great Scientist who will bulb Philosophy. At this rate, it looks like Liberalism is in the bag.

Civics. I now have the Pyramids and will switch to Representation/Bureaucracy/Caste System (a 3 civic switch) first thing next round (it's actually better to do civic changes in war than in peace since in war little research gets done anyway). Unfortunately, Pacal II and Gilgamesh have Hereditary Rule as their favorite civics so I'll be missing out on that.

I think I am relatively safe in terms of diplomacy. I have 2 annoyed AI's, 2 cautious AI's and 2 pleased AI's. Sitting Bull and Darius I are the annoyed ones but Darius is a non-factor and Sitting Bull is the worst enemy of 3 leaders. Gilgamesh and Pacal II are cautious--that's fine with me as both are kind of far away. Mao and Sal are pleased, which is great since Mao is the closest to me.

The save, as usual, and awaiting your comments.

DMOC said:

First of all, to begin the round, I researched Priesthood knowing that it was an optional prerequisite of Code of Laws and therefore it would reduce the time needed for CoL.

Well...it didn'nt. CoL cost 852 beakers before Priesthood and afterwards. ???

Click to expand...

It doesn't reduce the beaker cost of the tech but it adds a bonus to your science. If you check the research bar every turn you'll see that you gain much more per turn than what you see in the upper left corner. It's the same thing with civs knowing the tech.

Didn't get to read everything nor look at the save yet so I'll save further comments for later.

Rusten said:

It doesn't reduce the beaker cost of the tech but it adds a bonus to your science. If you check the research bar every turn you'll see that you gain much more per turn than what you see in the upper left corner. It's the same thing with civs knowing the tech.

Didn't get to read everything nor look at the save yet so I'll save further comments for later.

Click to expand...

Really? Wow, I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing it.

Does this apply to ANY tech that has multiple prerequisites?

Darius' new capital would certainly be worth it, since it's green lands rather than the plains you seem to get on this map. The risk of dangerous troops (xbows) is not present since he no longer has iron, so my vote would be for continuing the war.

And yes: Mao is a backstabber. So... don't forget to guard your borders with him.

DMOC said:

Really? Wow, I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing it.

Does this apply to ANY tech that has multiple prerequisites?

Click to expand...

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/tech_research.php

Yes as long as they are arrows on the tech graph. You get an additive 20% bonus per tech with arrow.

Note this means that you always have at least one 20% modifier except for those with no "arrows" going in (starting techs, Divine Right, Astronomy, any others?)

PaulusIII said:

Darius' new capital would certainly be worth it, since it's green lands rather than the plains you seem to get on this map. The risk of dangerous troops (xbows) is not present since he no longer has iron, so my vote would be for continuing the war.

And yes: Mao is a backstabber. So... don't forget to guard your borders with him.

Click to expand...

I forgot about crossbows requiring iron so I will definitely go after Darius' new capital.

timmy827 said:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/tech_research.php

Yes as long as they are arrows on the tech graph. You get an additive 20% bonus per tech with arrow.

Note this means that you always have at least one 20% modifier except for those with no "arrows" going in (starting techs, Divine Right, Astronomy, any others?)

Click to expand...

I will remember this for the future.

I will post the next round by Monday, or Tuesday.

It seems to me that there are 3 Persian cities to the north: one to the west of Pasargadae and one probably on a small island off-shore.

Trv016 said:

It seems to me that there are 3 Persian cities to the north: one to the west of Pasargadae and one probably on a small island off-shore.

Click to expand...

Nope, you can see it in his trade screen, just Ecbatana and Gordium are remaining apart from Pasargadae. The Persian borders in the sea result from the capture of Persepolis (haven't readjusted yet).

didn't take a look at the save but at glance it seems clear to finish him.
All you get from leaving him is -happy and culture problems.

I'm hoping mao will help get the job done by razing the southern persian city. If not I guess I'll have to do it myself. I would like to get some technologies for peace, hopefully something like machinery.

Definitely finish the Persians. Is Mao still in the war? If so, you will want to make sure he doesn't grab any more of Cyrus's cities.

Good job so far!
Certainly finish off Darius.

I was little bit surprised to see you did not use War Elephants, but I get it now - you have no Horseback Riding. Pity, these beasts rock!

On a related note, I see that Mao has neither ChukoKoNus nor longbows yet... If there are any juicy cities he has, I would even consider going for HBR while you mop up Darius and then hitting on Mao hard and fast, before he gets to his UU.

Dunno, maybe I'm too belligerent, but I would very much love to see Boudicca's traits played to the maximum.

And, you want to switch out of Slavery? Heretic! Why not whip some infra into your captured cities first?

Round 6: 385 AD to 990 AD (46 Turns), Part I


Moving along here since I need to finish this game by a certain date unless we want this game to last until the middle of August.

I first started off with a double civic switch.



Representation for increased happiness/beakers and Bureaucracy to boost my capital. I still needed to whip some buildings in my cities so I stuck to slavery.

I also founded Verlamion.



It will be a decent city. I was thinking about cottaging it but later on near the end of the round I was thinking of converting it to a future Globe Theatre city for drafting.

Oh, by the way, barbarian cities have culture?!?



This is only the second time I have seen this happen.

Anyway, back to the war. I rested/healed most of my stack and moved them to capture Pasargadae, but unfortunately, Darius gave me a surprise when he discovered Feudalism and has several longbows defending!



There actually should have been 1 more longbow in the city. Where did that one extra longbow go?



I moved my scout to that hill, and a longbow decided to chase after him. Maybe he was scared of my scout who can't attack? Well, I wasn't complaining.

Breaking through Pasargadae was, as expected, difficult. I only had three catapults available, and I was attacking across a river as I didn't want to risk wasting an extra turn moving a tile north.

I decided to attack the city with all three catapults first, fully expecting them to die -- and they did. After the catapults did their duty, this was what Pasargadae's defenders looked like.



At the cost of several swords, I captured the city. I took advantage of the fact that I had a chariot with me to steal one of Darius' workers, bringing my total to seven.



My stack was now basically ruined and injured, and there was no way I could capture another city (Darius' city of Gordium up north had several defenders IIRC not including that extra longbow and swordsman outside of the city. I sued for peace despite that I only needed 3 more XP to my first Great General.

Darius offered this at first.



I switched the peace deal so he would just give me Sailing and Monotheism.

Mao also made peace with Darius soon, without vassalizing him.

On the tech front, I finished researching Aesthetics and went on to Literature to unlock both epics.

Pacal, meanwhile, captured the barb city.



Once again, barbarians have proven to be extraordinarily helpful on this map. Mao lost 5 troops trying to capture this city (horse archers and chariots). Pacal now has 15 cities!

Literature didn't take very long. Up next was Paper.



Midway through discovering Paper, I traded away Civil Service to three leaders, Darius, Gilgamesh, and Saladin, neeting Machinery, Feudalism, Calendar, and Horseback Riding from them (I also had to include some extra gold on my side of the deal in several cases). This had the effect of putting Pacal II in his limit for "We Fear You Are Being Too Advanced," but everyone else is still willing to trade, except for Sitting Bull but who cares?

I used that Woodsman II scout, the same one which fooled Darius' longbow, to explore. He found Gilgamesh's territory to the east of Pacal II.



Not much really happened now that there was peace. In terms of Great People, Vienne soon generated my second Great Scientist, and what did he do?



So now I am the first to Philosophy. Is it just me, or is the tech pace in this game really slow? Perhaps it has to do with the abundant plains on this map. Anyway, I adopted Pacifism and Caste System to quicky generate lots of Great Scientist specialists in Vienne.

There was also some good news, albeit rather insignificant when concerning my empire, on the diplomatic front. Sitting Bull declared war on Gilgamesh (655 AD). It wasn't a phony war as proved by the two or three great generals born out of the conflict.

Darius continued to be a pain by founding a stupid city taking Persepolis' culture.



Lest I forget, Pacal II continued to be a wonder-whoring maniac this round. He constructed the Sistine Chapel and the Hagia Sohia, just to name a few. He also constructed the Apostolic Palace in Mutal.



I voted for him, of course, to gain the +2 diplomatic points. He still remained at cautious, however.

While I was exploring, I couldn't resist laughing at Gilgamesh's capital.



This reminds me of Gilgamesh's capital in the Charlemagne (Carolus Magnus) Immortal University. This capital, though, is MUCH better.

While I was researching Education after Paper, I managed to get my THIRD Great Scientist.



He bulbed the rest of Education. This is why I kept my science at 0% so that I could accumulate wealth and the scientist would waste minimal beakers from bulbing.

And if you can believe it or not, after 18 turns of construction in Bibracte:



I completed the Great Library. Pacal II is STILL the only AI who has knowledge of Literature, and this was perhaps the one wonder he decided not to build.

Soon after the construction of the Great Library, Mao declared war on Sitting Bull. I will join in if he or Gilgamesh asks me to. Also, Darius I became a free state (he vassalized voluntarily to Saladin in the middle of the round) again which means I can target him again, and I think I will, considering it's just three cities I have to deal with now.

I researched Liberalism until there was one turn left to completion, and then I ended the round.

[To be continued in next post]

[Continued from previous post]

Round 6: 385 AD to 990 AD (46 Turns), Part II


We're onto the second part of the round and that means it's time for all the boring stuff like advisors, etc etc etc.

Domestic Advisor



Civics



Technology



Trades



GNP Graph



Power Graph



Map of my empire



Map of the world




Well, it seems like I'll have to conquer quite a bit of territory for domination, as I only have 14 percent land area at the moment.

However, this is my immediate plan, and of course, as usual, feel free to congratulate or disagree/criticize/suggest .

• I will finish Liberalism and pick Nationalism as the free technology. As an alternative, I could research Nationalism and pick up Military Tradition as my free tech, which is more expensive. This has the benefit of letting my Camulodunum city develop itself a little further to build the Taj Mahal.
• I will build the Taj Mahal in Camulodunum, which is the northern coastal production city.
• I will convert my southern fish city to Globe Theatre
• I will somehow obtain Engineering/Theology/Drama for the upcoming wars.
• I will use Theology to adopt Theocracy to get Saladin to friendly and make 5 XP macemen to upgrade to rifles.
• I will tech to Printing Press > Replaceable Parts > Rifling and amass an army of riflemen to take over Darius and then Mao.

Just for additional information, my next Great Scientist is due in 25 turns in the capital. Saladin and Mao are also still pleased on the diplomatic front.

Save:

DMOC said:

However, this is my immediate plan, and of course, as usual, feel free to congratulate or disagree/criticize/suggest .

• I will finish Liberalism and pick Nationalism as the free technology. As an alternative, I could research Nationalism and pick up Military Tradition as my free tech, which is more expensive. This has the benefit of letting my Camulodunum city develop itself a little further to build the Taj Mahal.
• I will build the Taj Mahal in Camulodunum, which is the northern coastal production city.
• I will convert my southern fish city to Globe Theatre
• I will somehow obtain Engineering/Theology/Drama for the upcoming wars.
• I will use Theology to adopt Theocracy to get Saladin to friendly and make 5 XP macemen to upgrade to rifles.
• I will tech to Printing Press > Replaceable Parts > Rifling and amass an army of riflemen to take over Darius and then Mao.

Click to expand...

Are you sure that Macemen can upgrade to Riflemen? I thought that they upgrade to Grenadiers (I'm not 100% sure though).

As for choosing between Military Tradition and Nationalism, remember that Boudica's Aggressive trait applies to gunpowder units, but not mounted units. So maybe try to leverage Aggressive by building primarily gunpowder units. I therefore don't see much use for Military Tradition in the short term, compared to some of the economic techs that you can research next. My suggestion, therefore, is to get Nationalism as the free tech and follow up with Gunpowder (or maybe trade for it) and economic techs.

Check diplo with Pacal for cash. If he was building the GLib he will have a bunch of gold on hand for trade if you want it. Just an idea.

Given your pretty healthy tech situation, would you consider teching Nationalism then let your Great Scientist give you printing press (or a good portion of it)? You can then use Liberalism to get Replaceable parts and leapfrog into rifling? Saladin would be the only threat to getting Liberalism first, and you'll know when he gets Education on board.

Or is that too risky on immortal level?

@JBossch - the tech screen shows Pacal with only 50 gold.

Artichoker said:

Are you sure that Macemen can upgrade to Riflemen? I thought that they upgrade to Grenadiers (I'm not 100% sure though).

As for choosing between Military Tradition and Nationalism, remember that Boudica's Aggressive trait applies to gunpowder units, but not mounted units. So maybe try to leverage Aggressive by building primarily gunpowder units. I therefore don't see much use for Military Tradition in the short term, compared to some of the economic techs that you can research next. My suggestion, therefore, is to get Nationalism as the free tech and follow up with Gunpowder (or maybe trade for it) and economic techs.

Click to expand...

I am 100% sure macemen upgrade to both grenadiers and rifles. I actually do the process of getting a bunch of macemen to city raider 2 and then using the great merchant from economics to get enough money to upgrade them all to rifles in my offline games.

You do have a point. Military Tradition is not very appealing since Boudica won't get the extra combat promotion to cavalry. She will, though, get them for macemen which I can upgrade to rifles. I think I will get Nationalism as the free tech.

Kev said:

Given your pretty healthy tech situation, would you consider teching Nationalism then let your Great Scientist give you printing press (or a good portion of it)? You can then use Liberalism to get Replaceable parts and leapfrog into rifling? Saladin would be the only threat to getting Liberalism first, and you'll know when he gets Education on board.

Or is that too risky on immortal level?

@JBossch - the tech screen shows Pacal with only 50 gold.

Click to expand...

I was thinking about self-researching Nationalism and using Liberalism for something along the road, but after pondering for a while, I don't think I will do this. It's not that risky in this particular immortal game but it's just that Replaceable Parts and Nationalism have the same beaker price IIRC, and if I get Nationalism sooner, I can start the Taj Mahal sooner and that golden age will boost my research while I tech to Rifles.

By the way, I don't have a Great Scientist, I used it to bulb Education.

---------------------------

In terms of military, I'm thinking of adopting Theocracy ASAP (which will make Saladin Friendly towards me) and making an army of CR2 C1 macemen to finish off Darius. Those macemen will then be experienced veterans that will be upgraded into more potent riflemen.

And to pay for the upgrades, I'm going for Economics. I'm pretty sure I have no threat to getting that free Great Merchant.


By the way, why does Sitting Bull tech so horribly? It's 990 AD and he doesn't have POLYTHEISM.

DMOC said:

I was thinking about self-researching Nationalism and using Liberalism for something along the road, but after pondering for a while, I don't think I will do this. It's not that risky in this particular immortal game but it's just that Replaceable Parts and Nationalism have the same beaker price IIRC, and if I get Nationalism sooner, I can start the Taj Mahal sooner and that golden age will boost my research while I tech to Rifles.

By the way, I don't have a Great Scientist, I used it to bulb Education.

Click to expand...

I thought Replaceable Parts was pricier in terms of beakers, so that makes sense - unless you were really feeling wild and wanted to hold off and get rifling as your Liberalism tech. Probably not worth it - not sure if rifling is more expensive either. On lower levels I sometimes head for steel if I have a tech lead like this with Liberalism one turn away. Cannons are great and unaffected by the flanking damage, and some of the pre-reqs are very tradeable.

I know you used the GS for education, but you said you had GS coming on board in about 25 turns if I recall. Thought it would work out given that would be enough time to tech Nationalism and a portion of PP before that scientist could be used to complete PP. Moot point anyway.