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Warlord
Immortal Domination
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Immortal Game: Saladin
- Thread starter Gwaja
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Gwaja
King
I understand that this game is a 20-year-old game and many many players have attempted many many different approaches. In the early days, it was indeed fun to explore the possibilities and try out different things, but at this time, many of us seem to believe that nearly every possibilities have been explored. So now, we tell ourselves and new players to ignore religion all in the interest of "strong" and "optimal" play, despite the fact that religion, clearly, is a big part of gameplay. I see wonders, buildings, techs, civics, great people, and leader traits all tailor made for that, and yet, here we are, mostly ignoring many of them just because it doesn't help us win at the highest level as fast and easy as possible. All I can say to that is PFFT. And yes, Obsolete, back in the early days, would have said the same too.
If founding a religion or two, even converting to one early, running Priests and settling them, and building religious wonders are all considered somehow bad play, so be it. I'd consider it as nerfing myself to make the ongoing map a bit more challenging, I suppose? Why is it that I am telling myself that almost 90% of the time, I should ignore all other specialists other than Scientists... I can't speak for others, but that defines limitation which takes away variety, which CAN lead to burnouts. I know it HAS, and WILL, for me; hence why I have taken long breaks away from this game. I am not saying that the game completely lacks any kind of variety at its current state, but this kind of thinking certainly DOES eliminate large part of it. If I choose to defy all this and somehow make myself look like a bad player because I am not using "strong" or "optimal" gameplay, so be it, as long as I am having fun playing a "video game." And no, I don't restrict fun in a video game to just winning at the highest level at all cost as fast as possible.
I fondly remember people posting games like "roleplay challenges" back in the early days.... placing certain limitations or forcing us with certain rules of engagement. Those were the fun games where it encouraged us to try something funky.
Gameplay that punishes you for making bad choices? If I were stuck in a way of thinking that utilizing a gameplay element that was clearly designed as a large part of the game is considered as "making a bad choice," I would either end up rinse-repeating similar type of games at the macro level over and over where certain gameplay elements are encouraged to be completely ignored like as if it is a written textbook rule, choose to defy this and try different variety, or quit... because at that point, the game is no longer considered a good game for me to play. It is like playing a shooting game with bunch of different weapon types, only to see that people completely ignore certain types of weapons because they suck at beating the game at the highest difficulty level.
Not sure what happened to Lain, but I am pretty sure that it had nothing to do with @Henrik75 regularly posting his videos. If anything, we could use more people streaming to bring more interest back into this game.
If founding a religion or two, even converting to one early, running Priests and settling them, and building religious wonders are all considered somehow bad play, so be it. I'd consider it as nerfing myself to make the ongoing map a bit more challenging, I suppose? Why is it that I am telling myself that almost 90% of the time, I should ignore all other specialists other than Scientists... I can't speak for others, but that defines limitation which takes away variety, which CAN lead to burnouts. I know it HAS, and WILL, for me; hence why I have taken long breaks away from this game. I am not saying that the game completely lacks any kind of variety at its current state, but this kind of thinking certainly DOES eliminate large part of it. If I choose to defy all this and somehow make myself look like a bad player because I am not using "strong" or "optimal" gameplay, so be it, as long as I am having fun playing a "video game." And no, I don't restrict fun in a video game to just winning at the highest level at all cost as fast as possible.
I fondly remember people posting games like "roleplay challenges" back in the early days.... placing certain limitations or forcing us with certain rules of engagement. Those were the fun games where it encouraged us to try something funky.
Gameplay that punishes you for making bad choices? If I were stuck in a way of thinking that utilizing a gameplay element that was clearly designed as a large part of the game is considered as "making a bad choice," I would either end up rinse-repeating similar type of games at the macro level over and over where certain gameplay elements are encouraged to be completely ignored like as if it is a written textbook rule, choose to defy this and try different variety, or quit... because at that point, the game is no longer considered a good game for me to play. It is like playing a shooting game with bunch of different weapon types, only to see that people completely ignore certain types of weapons because they suck at beating the game at the highest difficulty level.
Not sure what happened to Lain, but I am pretty sure that it had nothing to do with @Henrik75 regularly posting his videos. If anything, we could use more people streaming to bring more interest back into this game.
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Clearly you are treating the game as a video game. I am not, that's why we are speaking a different language. I disagree with many of your claims. I don't think everything is explored and understood, I don't think you should not use most of the game features, religions, different specialists. I even think almost every building is worth building under some circumstances. I think there is a lot of variety in the game, even if you don't intentionally choose sub-optimal plays.
I think this is a place where you are supposed to discuss and investigate strategies as it is named strategy&tips.
I think this is a place where you are supposed to discuss and investigate strategies as it is named strategy&tips.
And that is not what I or anyone else to my knowledge said. Just to be clear.
Gwaja
King
Exactly. And that's what it is all about, isn't it.... finding some cool fun strategy that satisfies our Civ needs in general, whether it be a simple video game or something else totally. Nah... I think we all speak the same language... Civ language that is.
IIRC, Lain got a very professional job and girlfriend and it's probably a good call to stop uploading especially if it felt like a job/not as fun as the game used to be for him, which was the vibe I was getting since he sounded so passionate years ago. He's also extremely strong of a player and must find it hard to improve further which if I reached that point I too would lose interest. Good on him honestly. We overlapped with uploads roughly a year or two, although I started out as a mere immortal player with bad habits and much less knowledge and have improved over the years, we haven't had much interaction apart from me giving him my utmost respect and encouragement as I should since I learned a lot of my high end strategies from him, so I doubt my channel has any effect.
I'm with Gwaja, and the way I see it is there's two "playstyles" I have;
fun/relax mode for immortal building tons of wonders, religions, random/suboptimal wars, take 1v2s or even 1v3s and win easily, which sure, isn't the most challenging way to play but sure is a nice way to relax and have fun in the game which I can do any time of the day,
OR
Hammurabi deity isolation and most other deity maps which have you on full tryhard mode, doing everything with maximum optimizations. I have to be concentrated and really in the mood to play like these, my uploads and gametime would cut drastically if this is the only way I played.
I like to mix A and B up. 50/50 split or 33/66. I shouldn't speak for Lain but I'd burn out real fast if I only played style B. But everyone has their preferences. Do what you find fun, ignore sampsa if he tells you forges are bad and enjoy yourself.
Hope Lain comes back. I learned the most from him, he's a Civ 4 Legend.
I'm with Gwaja, and the way I see it is there's two "playstyles" I have;
fun/relax mode for immortal building tons of wonders, religions, random/suboptimal wars, take 1v2s or even 1v3s and win easily, which sure, isn't the most challenging way to play but sure is a nice way to relax and have fun in the game which I can do any time of the day,
OR
Hammurabi deity isolation and most other deity maps which have you on full tryhard mode, doing everything with maximum optimizations. I have to be concentrated and really in the mood to play like these, my uploads and gametime would cut drastically if this is the only way I played.
I like to mix A and B up. 50/50 split or 33/66. I shouldn't speak for Lain but I'd burn out real fast if I only played style B. But everyone has their preferences. Do what you find fun, ignore sampsa if he tells you forges are bad and enjoy yourself.
Hope Lain comes back. I learned the most from him, he's a Civ 4 Legend.
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Gwaja
King
Just the kind of game I wanted to play. ^_^
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