Greek police shooting sparks riot

Yeekim · Dec 8, 2008

philippe said:
you don't get it do you?

No, sorry, I don't.

philippe said:
You eastern europeans constantly spew on how much you guys hate russia, but when you say a harsh measure should be done, you grab back to soviet policies.
and me saying "disgusting" means, i find those policies despicable, so your third part of your post is just another blind rave. It's silly really.
for the rest, i'll ignore your strawman.

If something is a strawman here, it is your equation of "soviet justice" and "harsh measures". The vermin used potentially deadly weapon (and it would have been anything but pleasant death) to assault policemen who as far as the article tells us, had done nothing particularly sinister to provoke it. So he totally deserved the bullet he got in return.
His comrades are apparently following suit, except that they are also destroying property of innocent people, whose only crime is apparently that they dare having it.
And my disdain for violent anarchist scumbags stems from the fact that I am familiar with a piece of history related to them that you probably do not know about.

hossam · Dec 8, 2008

RedRalphWiggum said:
If this had been the Russian, Chinese or Venezuelan police I reckon we would be seeing a very different response form several posters here

you better not be talking about me

philippe said:
how many poeple do not deter when a cop is standing before them with a gun? would you do anything when a shot pierced your leg. how would your buddies react.

"oh shi-, let's GTFO here".

Exactly RRW, i'll tell you something, Slavs actually love repressive tactics and enforcement. But they have to keep up the appearance they are becoming "western" so they will condemn the actions of "rogue states law enforcement", but when it comes down to it, poeple like yeekim and winner want to gun down dissents, just like father state back in the days.

id imagine if you were so bold as to attack a police officer you would be bold enough to keep attacking even if he brandished his weapon. infact that kid getting killed just inspired more riots.

Bugfatty300 · Dec 8, 2008

philippe said:
Hans van temsche, a murderer with a loaded rifle was taken down by a policeman with a shot in a non-vital area. If a fat Belgian policeman can do it, no doubt the descendants of Greek freedomfighters can do it.

Nope. Bad advice. If someone is throwing bombs at me then I'm aiming for center mass. No time to aim at legs, shoulders. That is just ridiculous Hollywood nonsense. Themsche was shot in the abdomen. He survived. Not a very good example.

philippe · Dec 8, 2008

Yeekim said:
No, sorry, I don't.

If something is a strawman here, it is your equation of "soviet justice" and "harsh measures". The vermin used potentially deadly weapon (and it would have been anything but pleasant death) to assault policemen who as far as the article tells us, had done nothing particularly sinister to provoke it. So he totally deserved the bullet he got in return.
His comrades are apparently following suit, except that they are also destroying property of innocent people, whose only crime is apparently that they dare having it.
And my disdain for violent anarchist scumbags stems from the fact that I am familiar with a piece of history related to them that you probably do not know about.

oh you mean the Russian rioters in estonia? (especially after the removal of a soviet memorial for fallen soldiers)You think i'm ignorant?

I condemn any death by the state as long as there was an suitable alternative.

In my opinion a non-lethal alternative was available.

In fact i think the police man himself didn't actually want to kill the guy. maybe we could ask him.

But it was you who suggest gunning down poeple, and i'm sorry but that is a thinking pattern for repressive trash. wise up or be stuck backwards. (there is still hope)

hossam said:
you better not be talking about me

id imagine if you were so bold as to attack a police officer you would be bold enough to keep attacking even if he brandished his weapon. infact that kid getting killed just inspired more riots.

just like in france right, whereafter sending police with the exact means i said got the situation (which was way worse)"under control" without any more casualtie?

holy king · Dec 8, 2008

oh damn, i missed the point where the "anti-communists" come out and cry for law and order and gulags for lefties...

nice one, winner...

holy king · Dec 8, 2008

oh and about the actual shooting:

not even the cop himself claims the boy was throwing something at him and he shot him in self defense.

he claims it was a warning shot and a ricochet hit the boy.
bystanders claim he targeted the boy directly.

hossam · Dec 8, 2008

philippe said:
oh you mean the Russian rioters in estonia? (especially after the removal of a soviet memorial for fallen soldiers)You think i'm ignorant?

I condemn any death by the state as long as there was an suitable alternative.

In my opinion a non-lethal alternative was available.

In fact i think the police man himself didn't actually want to kill the guy. maybe we could ask him.

But it was you who suggest gunning down poeple, and i'm sorry but that is a thinking pattern for repressive trash. wise up or be stuck backwards. (there is still hope)

just like in france right, whereafter sending police with the exact means i said got the situation (which was way worse)"under control" without any more casualtie?

well, in france where there two lone officers under attack by 30 people?

philippe · Dec 8, 2008

holy king said:
oh and about the actual shooting:

not even the cop himself claims the boy was throwing something at him and he shot him in self defense.

he claims it was a warning shot and a ricochet hit the boy.
bystanders claim he targeted the boy directly.

don't you know those bystanders are terrorists and dissenters and should be sent to the gulag for their crimes? After all they didn't help the policeman kill more :rolleyes:

holy king · Dec 8, 2008

furthermore, in berlin some guys took the opportunity to squat something and squated the greek embassy. :lol:

philippe · Dec 8, 2008

hossam said:
well, in france where there two lone officers under attack by 30 people?

hundreds of poeple. Imagine a north-african zombie horde in a left4dead setting, and you are getting close.

hossam · Dec 8, 2008

philippe said:
don't you know those bystanders are terrorists and dissenters and should be sent to the gulag for their crimes? After all they didn't help the policeman kill more

stop acting like they were just minding they're own business when the police started shooting up 16 year olds :rolleyes:

he chose to break the law and take part in attacking a police officer, he brought it on himself.

Bugfatty300 · Dec 8, 2008

holy king said:
oh and about the actual shooting:

not even the cop himself claims the boy was throwing something at him and he shot him in self defense.

he claims it was a warning shot and a ricochet hit the boy.
bystanders claim he targeted the boy directly.

If that is the case then fire the cop. They shouldn't fire period unless they are in immediate danger. Warning shots are nonsense. If it's a police policy then they should change it.

hossam · Dec 8, 2008

philippe said:
hundreds of poeple. Imagine a north-african zombie horde in a left4dead setting, and you are getting close.

the riot police in france is a well organized effort, this situation was just two lone officers who were attacked. two completely different things.

hossam · Dec 8, 2008

holy king said:
oh and about the actual shooting:

not even the cop himself claims the boy was throwing something at him and he shot him in self defense.

he claims it was a warning shot and a ricochet hit the boy.
bystanders claim he targeted the boy directly.

where does it say this? :confused:

holy king · Dec 8, 2008

hossam said:
where does it say this?

let me look for an english source, as i reckon your german wouldnt suffice...

Spoiler :

cant find one: translation:

the 37 year old policman who is said to have fired the deadly shot at the 15 year old testified he fired three warning shots and that one of those would have hit the youth as a ricochet. before that a group of autonomous people would have attacked the police car, in which he was sitting with his colleague, with stones.
The public prosecution office is charging the policeman with manslaughter [or second degree murder?], his colleague with abetment of manslaughter. The officers have been taken into custody.

According to descriptions of eye witnesses there would only have occurred verbal attacks between the policemen and the autonomous people. Then the police officer would have shot right into the direction of the boy. "It was cold blooded murder", said one eye witness on a radio broadcast.
The greek president critisized the actions of the policemen indirectly. The rule of law would have been violated by these events.

source: (APA/dpa/AFP)

RedRalph · Dec 8, 2008

hossam said:
stop acting like they were just minding they're own business when the police started shooting up 16 year olds
.

Excuse me but why the hell are you claiming to know what really happened? How could you know better than eyewitnesses?

hossam · Dec 8, 2008

RedRalphWiggum said:
Excuse me but why the hell are you claiming to know what really happened? How could you know better than eyewitnesses?

im just going by whats in the article, im not making anything up.

Yeekim · Dec 8, 2008

philippe said:
oh you mean the Russian rioters in estonia? (especially after the removal of a soviet memorial for fallen soldiers)You think i'm ignorant?

Actually, no. Or maybe on subconscious level. I gave examples about what I had in mind directly. Russian terrorists in Russia and their impact in later history.

philippe said:
I condemn any death by the state as long as there was an suitable alternative. In my opinion a non-lethal alternative was available.

If one uses potentially lethal weapons to attack another, potentially lethal response is justified in my book.

philippe said:
In fact i think the police man himself didn't actually want to kill the guy. maybe we could ask him.

He likely did not. Which makes the reaction to the incident all the less acceptable.

philippe said:
But it was you who suggest gunning down poeple, and i'm sorry but that is a thinking pattern for repressive trash. wise up or be stuck backwards. (there is still hope)

My comment was based on emotion after having read "should those who advocate war be ready to participate themselves?" thread. No, I do not really think indiscriminately gunning down people would be the right thing to do here. We would have collateral damage to innocent people (and idiots so young might indeed deserve a second chance). But it would be correct reaction, if we answered "Yes" to that question.

hossam · Dec 8, 2008

Yeekim said:
Actually, no. Or maybe on subconscious level. I gave examples about what I had in mind directly. Russian terrorists in Russia and their impact in later history.

If one uses potentially lethal weapons to attack another, potentially lethal response is justified in my book.

He likely did not. Which makes the reaction to the incident all the less acceptable.

My comment was based on emotion after having read "should those who advocate war be ready to participate themselves?" thread. No, I do not really think indiscriminately gunning down people would be the right thing to do here. We would have collateral damage to innocent people (and idiots so young might indeed deserve a second chance). But it would be correct reaction, if we answered "Yes" to that question.

glad i could be of service.

holy king · Dec 8, 2008

updated post contains translation.

really, there was no english source that did not simply take police reports of the guys attacking the car, leave out the part about the ricochet, and not mention any eye witnesses at all...

Greek police shooting sparks riot

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