Orbis - the original thread

the most powerful religion in Orbi is FoL: you can build many things on the top of ancient forests, and you do not have to be an elf. ( in vanilla FF only lumbermills for nonelves on the top of the forests. )

So tweaking is needed. FoL now is just too good in Orbi now.
 
scutarii said:
the most powerful religion in Orbi is FoL
you can build many things on the top of ancient forests, and you do not have to be an elf.
Click to expand...
It is, if you are an elf. But it is the same if you play unmodded FfH.
For non elves you can build the following in the ancient forest:
Mines (resource-only)
Mana nodes (again resource only)
Forester +1 food, +1 commerce with way of forests, +1 hammer with commune with nature
It is simillar base yeld as farm, but you get this hammer really late.
Most of the game ancient forest with forester will give you +2 food +1 hammer +1 commerce. Is it really that broken?
Forester is meant to allow anything in ancient forest and give you a reason to keep them. +1 food +1 hammer, some health and treant chance are not that great when compared to normal improvements...
 
Just wanted to say that the new arrangement with Mines on resources and Quarries on any hill worked really well. But maybe there should be a replacement for Salt as a quarried resource, such as Stone. That would also help out the Order of the Arches guild, who have only the two resources. You might also give them Ivory, which is unaccounted for (along with Bananas, Deer, Gunpowder, Sugar, Pearls, Clams, and Crabs). You might also want to give Bank of Vivaldi Pearls instead of Gems to eliminate the duplication with Prospectors Guild. (And give the Prospectors Gunpowder.) Finally, think about giving Circle of Eight credit for any kind of Mana and reworking the Acolyte, since with Sorcery you already get access to Metamagic. Maybe the old Circle of Gaelen dynamic would be better here. Or even have the Acolyte work like a Great Commander and attach to an Arcane unit and boost its Potency.

The list of .20 features looks great, especially the return of Dimensional Mana. I also like the creation of the religion category, but would llike to see it draw a distinction between the base civic, which would amount to primitive savagery, and a higher but still atheistic/agnostic humanism.
 
The best improvement for a tile with an ancient forest is a castle while running the feudal contract civic. It's a good investment since you can get the techs fairly quickly. :D

Ideas for the new Worship category civics:

Trelocracy
Requires Octopus Overlords
+1 food from plantations
+1 hammer from fishing boats
-25% Gold
+100% GP birthrate
Medium upkeep

Shadow Court
Requires Council of Esus
+1 Hammer from Town, Enclave and Aduar
-25% Maintenance for number of cities
-25% Maintenance for distance from palace
+1 unhappy in every city
High upkeep

New compassion civics:

Favor the strong
Requires Warfare tech
+20% healing rate for units
+50% GP birthrate
+1 unhappy in every city
+1 unhealthy in every city
Medium upkeep

Pact of the Wild
Requires Commune with Nature tech
+1 Healthy in every city
+1 commerce for Camp, Forester and Fishing Boat
-1 commerce for Town, Enclave and Aduar
Enables production of the civs legendary beast unit (Animal Hero)

Here's some thoughts about the animal units. Take them with a big pinch of salt because I reckon I might be the only one who bothers with them.

Replace City Raider promotions with Flanking. It makes somewhat more sense to me that fantasy animal armies would be good skirmishers but lousy at sieges.

Wolf - Add 20% withdraw chance and +1xp/combat.
Wolfpack - Add 25% withdraw chance and +1xp/combat. Is it possible to change this unit into a "minifleshgolem"? That you could sacrifice wolf units and the Wolfpack unit gains their promotions? Upgrades into War Hounds (Dovellio UU).

Lion - Immune to fear.
Lion Pride - Add 1 First strike and Immune to fear. Same idea as with the wolf pack. Upgrades into Royal Pride (Malakim UU).

Gorilla - Add Woodsman I and +25% xp/combat. Would also make sense to make it nonagressive, like the Elephant. Upgrades into Grove Guardian (Ljosalfar UU).

Tiger - Invisible like the Giant Spider, +1 First strike. Upgrades into Battle Cat (Grigori UU).

Bear - Upgrades into Mage Guard (Amurite UU).

Polar Bear - Upgrades into Bear Rider (Illian UU).

Giant Spider - No city attack penalty (Can scale walls). Remove withdraw chance from Spider Totem. Upgrades into spider rider (Svartalfar UU).

Giant Tortoise - Add Defensive and Immune to first strikes. Tortoise grants defensive and +2 defense strength. Upgrades into War Tortoise (Lanun UU).

Sea serpent - Decrease strength to 6. Add 35% withdraw chance. Sea Serpent totem gives +15% withdraw chance and +1 movement. Upgrades into Serpent Rider (Mazatl UU).

Griffon - Add 20% withdraw chance.

Hmmm... Guess that leaves the Kraken and the Manticore for "totemization". End of rant. :crazyeye:
 
Nice ideas! I will check them one by one, but that will have to wait a bit. I have to patch 020 together for you for tomorrow, so will probably do it next week.
But civics and replacement of city raider with flanking for animals is in.

Here are the current civics in religion category (named religion to keep it simple):
  • undecided - basic civic, low upkeep
  • sacrifice the weak - no upkeep, req AV, no change
    -20% great people rate
    +4 unhealthy
    +10% science
    1 food per population
  • slumbering coven (more "poetic" than trelocracy, and I want to stress the role of dreams in OO religion) - high upkeep, requires OO
    unlimited priest
    +100% great people points
    1 free specialist
    3 unhappy in cities with state religion
    +1 hammer from fishing boats
  • shadow court - medium (low?) upkeep, requires CoE
    -25 % distance maintenace
    -50% corporation upkeep
    +50% gold
    2 unhappy for state
    + 1 hammer from town & enclave
  • Guardian of nature - high upkeep, no change, FoL
    + 5 healthy
    -10% military production
    +2 happy from grove
    +1 happy per jungle or forest/ancient forest
  • Arete - medium upkeep, no change, RoK
    +25% great people rate
    +20% production
    + 1 food for mine
    can spend gold to hurry
  • Enlightement - high upkeep, no change, Empyrean
    +50% great people rate
    +10% production
    +10% culture
    + 1 happy per infirmary & courthouse
  • Purity - high upkeep, Order
    +2 happy for state religion
    2 unhappy per non-state religion
    +25% to both units & buildings production
  • Neutrality - low upkeep, req printing press, no religion required, but can keep state
    +50% great people rate
    +20% science
    +1 per religion

Sacrifice the weak & slumbering coven are "evil" (you treat your people badly), shadow court, nautrality & gaurdian are neutral, Arete, enlightement and purity are "good". Shadow court is hidden and gets bonus for other ones runing this civic (just like councils do).
Crusade gets +50% to great generals rate.
I think of adding survival civic to economy including some of Wauthan's ideas for Favor the strong and Pact of the Wild, but that will have to wait.
Please post any ideas, especially regarding balance/flavor of the new civic category
 
I'd also like the possibility of actually freeing Odio, if that could be:eek:

Also I got another form of civic for government

Thallasocracy (rule of the Admirals)

+1 gold from trade routes over sea
-50 % cost for ships
+10 % maintenancecost for a city
- 20 % maintenancecost for a city with harbour

And one for cultural values

Meritocracy

+1 XP per fight
+1 free specialist (can be random)
+20 % research


Buildings:

Khazâd: Runesmith: Grants Rune promotion (somethin of +X% strength, +50 % magic resistance, to recompense for being mageless)

Calabim: Vampire castle, -1 happy + 25 % defence, - 10 % to crime rate, replaces citadel

Family cript, + 25 % production of vampires, -10 % to crimerate, -1 health

Amurites: warded walls: + 40 % defense, +25 magic resistance

Wizard tower: + 10 % research in city, range of mage in city +1, defense + 5 %

Magic smithy: +20% hammers, +2 % hammers per kind of mana, replace forge

Clan: Wrestling pit: +1 happy, +1 xp

Sidar: City of shadows, Blurred promotion, -10 % crime rate, +10 % defense
 
Regarding Religion, I'd still like to see a viable option for the Agnostic civilizations become available before the Printing Press, which figures not to be available for a good while. I would tie it to Philosophy and call it something like Humanism, Naturalism, or Existentialism. Give some GPPs, Culture, and free Sages.

Elsewhere, you may be a little too generous on GPP bonuses and too harsh on happiness penalties.

Are you going to require just the base religious tech (like RoK) or the advanced one (like Arrete)? And must you also have adopted the religion?

'Neutrality' may be a little confusing because of its use for alignment and I assume that this is not a requirement. Maybe 'Liberalism' would be better. And try to think of a better name for the AV religion than 'Sacrifice the Weak.'
 
Caradoc said:
Are you going to require just the base religious tech (like RoK) or the advanced one (like Arrete)? And must you also have adopted the religion?
Click to expand...
If there is advanced tech, I am going to use it. If not, will stick to the base one. I do not want to add a tech just because I added a civic. Also, advanced techs come with early religions (FoL, RoK, OO), with the exception of AV, so it more or less balances itself.
And yes, except the base one and the special non-religious one all require appropiate religion to be adopted.

'Neutrality' may be a little confusing because of its use for alignment and I assume that this is not a requirement. Maybe 'Liberalism' would be better. And try to think of a better name for the AV religion than 'Sacrifice the Weak.
Elsewhere, you may be a little too generous on GPP bonuses and too harsh on happiness penalties. '
Click to expand...
If you have precise suggestions both for the names and how should I adjust the civics, let me know. I will probably lower Gpp a bit, but unhappines is not that bad. Well, maybe order can be a little hard, but confessors have some ways to counter the problem... :trouble:
Also, I will remove happines bonus from neutrality. Erebus religions are not very good if it comes to peacifull coexistence... Philosophy is a good idea, too.
I feel like I have run out of good names and still have to find one for a wonder that used to be called "tower of Eyes", currently named "citadel of lost souls"... ;)

@Tayschrenn
Welcome to the forums :)
I do not want to add more civics. The religion category is just for balance and I felt something is lacking. Now I ended with 9 options in this category and can not cut anything (sigh). Survival will add another option to a category that has few options, especially good ones.
Vampires in Erebus are very much alive, so no chance for the family crypt. But some other are good ideas. Unfortunatelly they come mostly for already well flavored civs.
As for Odio... Time is the essence. :)
 
little suggestion:
add an extra happiness penalty for having an evil non state-religion in a civ with a good religion-civic, and reduce it for having a good non state-religion in a civ with a good religion-civic (order is more likely to get unhappy from AV, then from empyrean right?)
 
Ahwaric said:
Nice ideas! I will check them one by one, but that will have to wait a bit. I have to patch 020 together for you for tomorrow, so will probably do it next week.
But civics and replacement of city raider with flanking for animals is in.

Here are the current civics in religion category (named religion to keep it simple):
  • undecided - basic civic, low upkeep
  • sacrifice the weak - no upkeep, req AV, no change
    -20% great people rate
    +4 unhealthy
    +10% science
    1 food per population
  • slumbering coven (more "poetic" than trelocracy, and I want to stress the role of dreams in OO religion) - high upkeep, requires OO
    unlimited priest
    +100% great people points
    1 free specialist
    3 unhappy in cities with state religion
    +1 hammer from fishing boats
  • shadow court - medium (low?) upkeep, requires CoE
    -25 % distance maintenace
    -50% corporation upkeep
    +50% gold
    2 unhappy for state
    + 1 hammer from town & enclave
  • Guardian of nature - high upkeep, no change, FoL
    + 5 healthy
    -10% military production
    +2 happy from grove
    +1 happy per jungle or forest/ancient forest
  • Arete - medium upkeep, no change, RoK
    +25% great people rate
    +20% production
    + 1 food for mine
    can spend gold to hurry
  • Enlightement - high upkeep, no change, Empyrean
    +50% great people rate
    +10% production
    +10% culture
    + 1 happy per infirmary & courthouse
  • Purity - high upkeep, Order
    +2 happy for state religion
    2 unhappy per non-state religion
    +25% to both units & buildings production
  • Neutrality - low upkeep, req printing press, no religion required, but can keep state
    +50% great people rate
    +20% science
    +1 per religion

Sacrifice the weak & slumbering coven are "evil" (you treat your people badly), shadow court, nautrality & gaurdian are neutral, Arete, enlightement and purity are "good". Shadow court is hidden and gets bonus for other ones runing this civic (just like councils do).
Crusade gets +50% to great generals rate.
I think of adding survival civic to economy including some of Wauthan's ideas for Favor the strong and Pact of the Wild, but that will have to wait.
Please post any ideas, especially regarding balance/flavor of the new civic category
Click to expand...

OMG I'm so excited! This looks amazing!!! :D

*Waiting patiently*... *twiddling thumbs* :p

Al
 
The suspense is killing me! LOL

Is this likely to be out today? My friends and I were going to start a game up!

Al
 
Sorry for the delay...

I had to wait for updated sdk source, plus it is almost christmas, so there are a lot of other things to do...

But I have finished and here it is.
Requires FfH 2 (040) F.

By the way, Ogres are where they were and I do not plan to move them...
 
Got in about 60 turns last night before bed and so far so good. Got a nice start with Remnants and Mt.K nearby. But I'm struggling to found my second city while the barb invasion continues to surge. The only possible glitch was visiting a Lair and having nothing happen, just the message saying I explored it.
 
Much appreciation for getting this out to us. Really looking forward to a long game over holiday break.

One thing I'm running into, I no longer have the heal ability for my wounded units. I tried running a regular FFH2 game and it's there, but not when I use the mod mod. Anyone else seeing this?
 
I'm not sure what's causing the bugs mentioned, since I've experienced none at all so far, but I beginning to have a sneaking suspicion... :D

1. Orbis 0.20 is a standalone release, not a patch.
2. The installer defaults to the old /orbis 015 folder.
3. This means that proper installation requires you to either change the default folder, to /orbis 020 for example, or delete the old version of Orbis before installing the new one.
4. Deleting the old folder *and* changing the install path is probably the best option.

Thanks for releasing this Ahwaric. You've done one heck of a good job and deserve a most excellent christmas. :goodjob:
 
segrix said:
I have a bug. I can't build any unit.
Click to expand...
Gilg said:
My units can't heal.
Click to expand...
There are several reasons for the problems. First, make sure you follow my instructions as to how to install the modmod. Just do what Wauthan said - uninstall all old versions (i.e. from add remove programs in control panel), then make sure you install it in Orbis 020 folder. If you install it in a different named one some of the UI changes will not work and you can experience some problems.

The most probable reason for the above bugs are preserved mod options. I did not include Kael's change from a recent patch and options are still saved. Disabling it has some side effects and I do not want to force it. Just do one of the following:

- run one "play now" game. This should clear all saved options, except the ones I made default (cities flipping after conquest, living world, double animals, flavoured start)

- open Orbis 020.ini in the mod folder (notepad works fine and the file is very short) and change:
Code: 
; Read Game options from XML, not .ini
ForceGameOptions = 0
to
Code: 
; Read Game options from XML, not .ini
ForceGameOptions = 1
That is the default FfH behaviour now. You should be fine with either solution.

Caradoc said:
The only possible glitch was visiting a Lair and having nothing happen, just the message saying I explored it.
Click to expand...

There is a possible 'nothing' result. if you got "The lair is empty, your unit destroys it without incident." it works as it should. If not, I will appreciate more info on what type of lair it was, terrain type etc...

Wauthan said:
Thanks for releasing this Ahwaric. You've done one heck of a good job and deserve a most excellent christmas. :goodjob:
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the feedback :) I did not apply all of it, but always appreciate it and may include it later after some playtesting. Now I will finally have more time to play so expect some fixes... My internet acces is quite limited now, so I hope not to be forced to upload a big patch... ;)

I did not have time to post any info on scenario compatibility. Now I do.

I only played a few scenarios so far.
Against the wall works fine, no change was required.
Gifts of Kylorin is ok, too (I think...)
Grand menagerie & fall of cuantine required some changes but afterwards worked fine for me.
I have tried to eliminate all possible compatibility issues from all the scenarios, but only the actuall play will tell if I succeded.
So, have a happy playtesting and Merry Christmas everyone :)
 
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