[BtS] Wolfshanze's Revolution
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phungus420
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I don't know why, but for some reason Microsoft Visual Studio 2005 wouldn't understand that I edited the CvDefines.h file, and would just refuse to compile a new gamecore, it was acting like nothing had changed. So I had to delete all the previous gamecore building files, and am now rebacking a new gamecore. Going to take the max # of civs down to 34 to allow more custom maps (as far as I know there are no 50 civ maps). Then I need to upload it, so it'll still take a while...
phungus420
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Bronze Steam & Tears Beta v 0.5.0 Download
Beta version is up. Will start a new thread for the mod a while later, just want to make sure it's working fine before I do, also I really need to sleep (and don't want to write up all the stuff for a new thread at this time), been working on this for the past 20 hours or so...
Beta version is up. Will start a new thread for the mod a while later, just want to make sure it's working fine before I do, also I really need to sleep (and don't want to write up all the stuff for a new thread at this time), been working on this for the past 20 hours or so...
(When you wake up again, you might want to add a little bit more information on the DL page.)
phungus420
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JEELEN, any chance you could make a scenario using Bronze Steam and Tears, I'll include any scenarios you make for it in the following versions. The max civ # has now been set at 34 to facilitate use of public maps, that's the size you said was most preffered when I asked you in your Scenarios thread.
Also any thoughts from people that are testing this beta? It's a beta version, so input from players will help me tweak and balance this mod for a final release.
Just of note, things that are still on the docket which must be done in order for BST to come out of beta:
1) Get all rev indexes to show. This is difficult because jdog, the creator of Revolutions had a different design philosophy, and intentionally made certain revolution effects invisible to the player. I on the other hand believe any and all information should be available to the player, but I now must actively work against some of the revolutions code to implement this.
2) Have legends display more coherently in the Sevopedia. Basically get them their own section (like how wonders are seperated from regular buildings), and remove them from the Unit Upgrade chart.
3) Get a new Opening page flashscreen. While I apreciate the Wolfshanze mod, and still consider it a base mod, this mod has developed enough where it requires it's own opening screen. If anyone is an artist and could upload an opening screen for this mod, I'd be greatly apreciative.
4) Get the Enlightened trait culture still produced from non state religion to display in the city screen. Currently the culture is added at the beginning of the player turn, so it is applied, but you can't tell by examining the city screen. This will require moving the Python code to the SDK.
5) Have a proper icon for the mod, so that the desktop shortcut will have it's own icon, rather then use the BtS extension's icon.
6) Implement new music for the Future/Information era, it just bothers me it plays the same soundtrack as the modern era.
That's the list of all planned implementations. All of these are aesthetic issues, as the beta version is for all intents and purposes a full release (in fact this modpack, along with WolfRevolution and RevDCM is are probably the most stable modpacks available). It is my hope that in the time it takes me to implement this list, that feedback from you players that enjoy the mod will help direct a final version toward a perfect play tested balance. So please give feedback.
Also any thoughts from people that are testing this beta? It's a beta version, so input from players will help me tweak and balance this mod for a final release.
Just of note, things that are still on the docket which must be done in order for BST to come out of beta:
1) Get all rev indexes to show. This is difficult because jdog, the creator of Revolutions had a different design philosophy, and intentionally made certain revolution effects invisible to the player. I on the other hand believe any and all information should be available to the player, but I now must actively work against some of the revolutions code to implement this.
2) Have legends display more coherently in the Sevopedia. Basically get them their own section (like how wonders are seperated from regular buildings), and remove them from the Unit Upgrade chart.
3) Get a new Opening page flashscreen. While I apreciate the Wolfshanze mod, and still consider it a base mod, this mod has developed enough where it requires it's own opening screen. If anyone is an artist and could upload an opening screen for this mod, I'd be greatly apreciative.
4) Get the Enlightened trait culture still produced from non state religion to display in the city screen. Currently the culture is added at the beginning of the player turn, so it is applied, but you can't tell by examining the city screen. This will require moving the Python code to the SDK.
5) Have a proper icon for the mod, so that the desktop shortcut will have it's own icon, rather then use the BtS extension's icon.
6) Implement new music for the Future/Information era, it just bothers me it plays the same soundtrack as the modern era.
That's the list of all planned implementations. All of these are aesthetic issues, as the beta version is for all intents and purposes a full release (in fact this modpack, along with WolfRevolution and RevDCM is are probably the most stable modpacks available). It is my hope that in the time it takes me to implement this list, that feedback from you players that enjoy the mod will help direct a final version toward a perfect play tested balance. So please give feedback.
Reme
Chieftain
For BST
Also what I did not like in last Mods was that the game went too slow so can you make the speed of the game adjustable for the player it would be nice thanks.
I am sure you have many of these things in mind already since this is the first release in all, but I thought I would give a list to add/change in case I bring up something you all did not think of.
I would like to start off this with the menu background, Wolf I know you love your picture, but please change it to fit this mod. A wile I was looking though the Civipedia I noticed something. I noticed that there was some things about Hungry in there, and they go under Austria...I think. So to make it more accurate so maybe change Austria to Austria-Hungry I think it was called, because I kept getting fooled that their was a civilization named Hungry in this mod. Add some of the basic resources some other mods have, like tobacco, cotton, coffee, and so on. Add more scenarios that's a given. Maybe add the tech Terra forming? Terra forming- basically changing the terrain to fit survival purposes, for example change desert to plains. I just thought this would be cool in all and I seen this on a Linux type Civilization game. Add more sub religions to the game, for example Catholicism and Protestantism.
This is what I think so far this is really good for the first release 3rd person to get it BTW XD. You do not have to take these suggestions just trying to make a good mod for the people and I. I also liked how to added the 300 Spartans, 101st Airborne and more units, though I might have to read more/ play to see what they do.
Thank you for your work and good luck in life.
Also what I did not like in last Mods was that the game went too slow so can you make the speed of the game adjustable for the player it would be nice thanks.
I am sure you have many of these things in mind already since this is the first release in all, but I thought I would give a list to add/change in case I bring up something you all did not think of.
I would like to start off this with the menu background, Wolf I know you love your picture, but please change it to fit this mod. A wile I was looking though the Civipedia I noticed something. I noticed that there was some things about Hungry in there, and they go under Austria...I think. So to make it more accurate so maybe change Austria to Austria-Hungry I think it was called, because I kept getting fooled that their was a civilization named Hungry in this mod. Add some of the basic resources some other mods have, like tobacco, cotton, coffee, and so on. Add more scenarios that's a given. Maybe add the tech Terra forming? Terra forming- basically changing the terrain to fit survival purposes, for example change desert to plains. I just thought this would be cool in all and I seen this on a Linux type Civilization game. Add more sub religions to the game, for example Catholicism and Protestantism.
This is what I think so far this is really good for the first release 3rd person to get it BTW XD. You do not have to take these suggestions just trying to make a good mod for the people and I. I also liked how to added the 300 Spartans, 101st Airborne and more units, though I might have to read more/ play to see what they do.
Thank you for your work and good luck in life.
phungus420
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Reme, I'm not sure what you mean about the game speed. Like default civ, you can just adjust the speed to normal or quick if you prefer.
The aesthetics issues with the intro screen and what not are on my to do list for final release. Keep in mind BST is currently in beta.
Terraforming will not be incorporated, however take note that with refridgeration you can build cottages in Desert, Tundra and Arctic, also with Ecology you can build farms in desert and Tundra. As for your other suggestions, many go beyond the design philosophy of Bronze Steam and Tears. Bronze Steam and Tears is designed to simulate an official "commercially viable" expansion pack. This means not too many drastic changes, or overloading the game with too many complex ideas. This mod is designed to be like the improvement from Vanilla Civ IV, to Beyond the Sword, this is accomplished by adding in the concept of Revolutions and included components, and flushing out the tech tree and unit upgrade paths (without going overboard, all tweaks are minor and logical). Adding in Religious schisms or other complex changes to gameplay would violate the central tenant of the mod's design. There are already a few mods that go that route. Given your suggestions, you should check out the Rise of Mankind mod, I think RoM more accurately reflects your desires for a mod.
The aesthetics issues with the intro screen and what not are on my to do list for final release. Keep in mind BST is currently in beta.
Terraforming will not be incorporated, however take note that with refridgeration you can build cottages in Desert, Tundra and Arctic, also with Ecology you can build farms in desert and Tundra. As for your other suggestions, many go beyond the design philosophy of Bronze Steam and Tears. Bronze Steam and Tears is designed to simulate an official "commercially viable" expansion pack. This means not too many drastic changes, or overloading the game with too many complex ideas. This mod is designed to be like the improvement from Vanilla Civ IV, to Beyond the Sword, this is accomplished by adding in the concept of Revolutions and included components, and flushing out the tech tree and unit upgrade paths (without going overboard, all tweaks are minor and logical). Adding in Religious schisms or other complex changes to gameplay would violate the central tenant of the mod's design. There are already a few mods that go that route. Given your suggestions, you should check out the Rise of Mankind mod, I think RoM more accurately reflects your desires for a mod.
Uncle Anton
Lighthorseman
You've probably already picked this up, but the SF paradrop animations aren't quite there (the unit simply appears and he fires off a couple of rounds, probably in frustration that his chute didn't open properly 
)
Also is it intended for the SF unit to not have access to Pinch?
)Also is it intended for the SF unit to not have access to Pinch?
phungus420
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Yeah, I have a request up in the Units thread regarding this, unfortunately there are no proper SF models with paradrop animations.You've probably already picked this up, but the SF paradrop animations aren't quite there (the unit simply appears and he fires off a couple of rounds, probably in frustration that his chute didn't open properly
Not directly no. It's intentional that recon units don't have access to pinch, and from a game balance perspective, I think it's fine that applies to SF as well. So I guess the answer is sort of.
I'm quite intrigued and will be checking out Bronze Steam and Tears today.
EDIT: Unfortunately I can't seem to get any map to load with BST...
phungus420
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JEELEN, how do you get maps to work with other mods? The process should be the same here... Other then it's epic coolness, BST is no different then any other mod in terms of compatibility with pre made maps (ie it's a mod, so you can't load pre-made maps by default, like with all mods). For instance, I know you update scenarios for mods when the version # changes and save game compatibility is lost. How do you do that (update the scenarios after a loss of savegame compatibility), and couldn't you use the same process to get a pre made map to work with this mod?
miserable09
Chieftain
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Hello,
Is there anything I can do to improve my artillery? Seems every turn I get the "your blank has missed it's target" message. Whereas the AI seems to have no problem pounding me.
Is there anything I can do to improve my artillery? Seems every turn I get the "your blank has missed it's target" message. Whereas the AI seems to have no problem pounding me.
phungus420
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The DCM bombardment is kind of new to me (I had always left it off before creating BST). If you are refering to WolfRevolution, the early units all have very low hit %s, you can increase these in the Unitinfos.xml. For Bronze Steam and Tears, units that can DCM bombard all have been set to 100%, so no real way to increase the hits. I'm not fully certain how DCM works, in terms of the math involved. I just know that it's been around and been tweaked and balanced by glider for the past year and a half (or more), the AI uses it and according to glider it's balanced and fully working. glider has never steered me wrong, and I trust his judgement about a components stability and balance more then any other person on this site. I know I've tested it in game, and arty seemed to hit about 50% of the time. Keep in mind that artillery bombard hits the mid troops in a stack as well, it wol't damage the top or rear defenders (unless all the middle defenders have taken max collateral damage already, and they are not immune, MGs and other siege units aren't going to take any damage from ranged bombard, because they are immune). Hope that's a decent explanation. I'll post in the RevDCM thread and see if glider can give me a straightforward explanation on the exact math used.
Well been over a full day and over 100 downloads, but no comments other then Reme's suggestions. BST is currently receiving a B+ rating, which I find strange, WolfRev has always been A+... B+ on this site is bad, I see it on mods that are unstable and whatnot, which is not true for this mod, so I'm curious why it was rated so poorly... Anyway comments welcome, I'm curious to know how other people percieve the mod, and any suggestions people have to improve it, or any suggested tweaks for balance, etc.
I suppose not getting any comments is good, probably means that it is very stable, and no one has experienced any issues... However being built from WolfRev, it should be completely stable, and also that low rating has me concerned.
Uncle Anton
Lighthorseman
OOops. Forgot to vote 
Fixed.
And Phungus, in case you were wondering... A+ my man... here's why -
*It's stable. These days a lot of mods are tho, so nothing that new here. Or maybe I'm discerning in what I download in the first place.
*It's sensible in it's modcomps selection. Extra kudos there, too many mods have modcomp selections that are just plain ridiculous in an effort to have "ZOMG, TEH CONTENT LOLWTFBBQ!1" - Not this one. It juggles functionality (eg BUG) with flavour (Ethnic artstyles) just nicely. Some mods go all out for content (eg a lot of the NextWar ones) and in doing so shaft the poodle big time.
*Balance when it comes to Realism vs Fun. Sounds like a no-brainer, but a lot of mods do fall down here, especially some of the more famous ones... remember Total Realism anyone? Was a great mod, til they pushed it a tad too far with that pandemic stuff... Or they rewrite civics and traits to the point where you're playing a whole new game.
*Attention to detail. There are plenty of mods out there that have a lot of content. Great. How many mod-devs actually a) recognise that high poly units WILL smash your computer and b) make efforts to remove them and replace them with alternatives? Again, there are plenty of great mods out there (HiTM and CivFusion to name two) that I'd still be playing along with this one IF it didn't have units that made my CPU die the second the game loads up more than four of them (And I do not have a low level machine either folks).
So yeah, thumbs up Phungus, at least so far...
Fixed.
And Phungus, in case you were wondering... A+ my man... here's why -
*It's stable. These days a lot of mods are tho, so nothing that new here. Or maybe I'm discerning in what I download in the first place.
*It's sensible in it's modcomps selection. Extra kudos there, too many mods have modcomp selections that are just plain ridiculous in an effort to have "ZOMG, TEH CONTENT LOLWTFBBQ!1" - Not this one. It juggles functionality (eg BUG) with flavour (Ethnic artstyles) just nicely. Some mods go all out for content (eg a lot of the NextWar ones) and in doing so shaft the poodle big time.
*Balance when it comes to Realism vs Fun. Sounds like a no-brainer, but a lot of mods do fall down here, especially some of the more famous ones... remember Total Realism anyone? Was a great mod, til they pushed it a tad too far with that pandemic stuff... Or they rewrite civics and traits to the point where you're playing a whole new game.
*Attention to detail. There are plenty of mods out there that have a lot of content. Great. How many mod-devs actually a) recognise that high poly units WILL smash your computer and b) make efforts to remove them and replace them with alternatives? Again, there are plenty of great mods out there (HiTM and CivFusion to name two) that I'd still be playing along with this one IF it didn't have units that made my CPU die the second the game loads up more than four of them (And I do not have a low level machine either folks).
So yeah, thumbs up Phungus, at least so far...
BobTheTerrible
Just Another Bob
I haven't had the chance to play yet, but I will leave comments once I have played it. I plan on eventually adding some modular civs, so I was wondering if you could also compile a 50-civ .dll once the mod is out of beta?
SlightlyMad
Prince
Is there a summary anywhere of the differences between WolfRev and BST? I think WolfRev is a near-perfect mod, so I'm not sure I'd like BST if it changed too much, but from your description of it, it sounds like the two are pretty similar? If that's the case though, I don't understand why you've made it a completely new mod?
cripp7
Playin' Bored
I'd like the ability to build 
like 
,
like ,
GoodGame
Red, White, & Blue, baby!
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There's several issues: 1. the WolfRev author has mostly disappeared (plus been banned from CFC). 2. WolfRev tends to crash, probably due to high polycount units. At least one unit has a polygon count about 15times a BTS unit. 3. Phungus has been modding the Revolutions component as well (and the Revolutions author doesn't seem to be around either). Makes good sense to just merge all the changes as a new mod rather than claim to be legitimately developing the original mods.
@Phungus, sorry I lost some interest in the modding, and got hooked on FFH2 for awhile, so I only downloaded BST, haven't tried it yet. I'll post some comments when I got time.
BobTheTerrible
Just Another Bob
BST adds a new trait (Enlightened), "wonder" units (units which can only be built once, such as the 300 Spartans or the Red Baron), and removes all the high poly unit art that is a part of WolfRev. I think technologies are also reworked a bit (but not many new ones, just different paths). There are also a few more UUs added in BST I beleive. WolfRevolution is just a straight merge of RevDCM and Wolfshanze's mod without any other changes.
phungus420
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Thanks for the kind words Uncle Anton
As for changes from WolfRev to BST, BST doesn't have any 2000+ poly units (thanks to GoodGame), there are some tweaks to unit upgrades and progression, all minor but noticeable. For instance Horse Cav no longer directly upgrade to Helicopter Gunships, there is an armored scout in there in BST. All in all though, BST and WolfRev are remarkably similar. The reason the name was changed is 2 fold. First it has deviated enough from the Wolfshanze mod, where claiming it is such is really just false advertising, BST has evolved into it's own thing, I've logged in hundreds of hours specifically on it, and then there are others who have helped with the art and such. Secondly, once it comes out of beta and gets it's own thread, is the name. I think alot of players that may enjoy the mod wol't check it out because the name WolfRevolution stounds strange, like it's something having to do with wolves, maybe some dark fantasy thing, and thus never check it out... So Bronze Steam and Tears is an attempt to make the mod sound more appealing as well.
Also RevDCM is still being developed. It's just certain things about Revolutions drived (or drives me) nuts. For instance city distance, completely rebuilt. Taxes Revolutions penalty, completely rebuilt. The default mechanics for these were just irritating, and in the case of taxes pigeonholed out novel strategies. That's not good design so I fixed it. Now I just need to get all the Rev effects to display... Anyway though, all changes to revolutions are found in both BST and WolfRev, as I consider these changes simply superior to the original, and not really a matter of taste.
That's a really good idea... What tech do you think it should require? I'm thinking printing press...I'd like the ability to build
As for changes from WolfRev to BST, BST doesn't have any 2000+ poly units (thanks to GoodGame), there are some tweaks to unit upgrades and progression, all minor but noticeable. For instance Horse Cav no longer directly upgrade to Helicopter Gunships, there is an armored scout in there in BST. All in all though, BST and WolfRev are remarkably similar. The reason the name was changed is 2 fold. First it has deviated enough from the Wolfshanze mod, where claiming it is such is really just false advertising, BST has evolved into it's own thing, I've logged in hundreds of hours specifically on it, and then there are others who have helped with the art and such. Secondly, once it comes out of beta and gets it's own thread, is the name. I think alot of players that may enjoy the mod wol't check it out because the name WolfRevolution stounds strange, like it's something having to do with wolves, maybe some dark fantasy thing, and thus never check it out... So Bronze Steam and Tears is an attempt to make the mod sound more appealing as well.
Also RevDCM is still being developed. It's just certain things about Revolutions drived (or drives me) nuts. For instance city distance, completely rebuilt. Taxes Revolutions penalty, completely rebuilt. The default mechanics for these were just irritating, and in the case of taxes pigeonholed out novel strategies. That's not good design so I fixed it. Now I just need to get all the Rev effects to display... Anyway though, all changes to revolutions are found in both BST and WolfRev, as I consider these changes simply superior to the original, and not really a matter of taste.
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