Your Top Ten Tips for Your Favorite Civ

xAlephx said:

A. How are people doing these quick tests?

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World builder. Place an enemy mage and skeleton on the same tile and give them appropriate promotions. Give yourself an assassin and see which one it attacks. (If it matters I tested on 0% defense terrain and 25% defense terrain.)

My problem with Luichirp is units that don't gain experience. I just don't like that. But I have played them, and did especially well as Evil Lui with a high armageddon counter.

avalonnn said:

My problem with Luichirp is units that don't gain experience. I just don't like that. But I have played them, and did especially well as Evil Lui with a high armageddon counter.

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I can understand that. I don't mind because non-golems can still gain EXP, and for every Combat promotion Baranaxus gets your golems get an Empower promotion. Building what essentially amounts to 15 strength Iron Golems right out of the gate with no battles is very powerful, Since Iron Champions that survive long enough to get Combat 5 are only 16 Strength. Golems are also immune to most negative spell effects(and positive ones too, sadly)

Personally, I could deal better with the no-experience golems if they didn't display their experience. Then I wouldn't spend the whole game saying to myself, "D'Oh! If only I could give some promotions to this 0/30 experience golem!"

That's why I like OO Lurchirp. Gives you an upgradable, promotable melee line.

Now, just be careful Os'Gabella doesn't bring a stack of Pyre Zombies to play with your wildly flammable armies.

avalonnn said:

My problem with Luichirp is units that don't gain experience. I just don't like that. But I have played them, and did especially well as Evil Lui with a high armageddon counter.

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You know, I kind of like that they don't gain experience.
1. It streamlines your civic options - you're not tempted away from the economic powerhouse civics into the + exp civics. As a financial leader, you've really got no business being anything but Aristagracy, and you want either gold rushing or pop rushing (the former for building, the latter for momentum).
2. Because your golems are born with building + barnaxus upgrades, it means you can crank out armies of strength 15 fireball throwing iron golems, which is a pretty nasty use of 180 hammers. AFAIK, they also lack any form of unitcombat, which means that shock is of no avail against them - this follows their pattern of "once we're made, you can't buff or debuff us."
3. I get extremely attached to highly promoted units and have trouble actually using them in fights where they could lose. Every Iron Golem being the same as every other Iron Golem, feel free to send them to their doom... you can replace them with exactly identical ones fresh off the production line.
4. As mentioned in my guide and elsewhere, there are lots of options for including troops that can gain experience in your army - so you can use your disposable Iron Golems to fireball pummel and then assault the tough defenders of your enemies, then once your win % gets in a comfortable 90+ range you can reap the rewards. Stygian guards are particularly nice for this... their March ability (+ possibly Cannibalize if upgraded from Drown) keeps them fit and limber accompanying your Repairable army.

SurahAhriman said:

That's why I like OO Lurchirp. Gives you an upgradable, promotable melee line.

Now, just be careful Os'Gabella doesn't bring a stack of Pyre Zombies to play with your wildly flammable armies.

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I had this one game, but Luchuirp start with Life mana. 4 Mages with Life 2 killed off around 50 Pyre Zombies in 1 turn with no explosions. Easy victory.

Azhral said:

I had this one game, but Luchuirp start with Life mana. 4 Mages with Life 2 killed off around 50 Pyre Zombies in 1 turn with no explosions. Easy victory.

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Heh, in the game that happened to me, Os-Gabella was fairly primitive, so I didn't consider her a threat. Of course I didn't stomp her out asap in the game I decide to build an entire army of extra-flammable people.

xAlephx said:

r gold rushing or pop rushing (the former for building, the latter for momentum).
2. Because your golems are born with building + barnaxus upgrades, it means you can crank out armies of strength 15 fireball throwing iron golems, which is a pretty nasty use of 180 hammers. AFAIK, they also lack any form of unitcombat, which means that shock is of no avail against them - this follows their pattern of "once we're made, you can't buff or debuff us."
3. I get extremely attached to highly promoted units and have trouble actually using them in fights where they could lose. Every Iron Golem being the same as every other Iron Golem, feel free to send them to their doom... you can replace them with exactly identical ones fresh off the production line.

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Did not know about the resistance to military type powers, but I agree that it's nice not worrying about carefully groomed high exp units.

I don't think I saw this under the Sidar notes, I may have missed it (there's a lot of text in this thread!)

Religious heroes will abandon you if you switch religion... but Shades of religious heroes won't! Shades retain all the promotions of the unit that turned into a shade. This isn't amazing for all religious heroes, but works great for powerful casters. Getting Hemah or Gibbon Goetia relatively early and turning them into a Shade means you can switch away from the religion while getting a Hero Channel III Arcane caster, usually earlier than most civilizations would have any kind of Channel III caster.

This is often useful for Esus's Gibbon Goetia, since you often don't want to stick with Esus as your civ's official religion anyway. Esus lacks priests, and most of the benefits of Esus don't require it be your state religion anyway, unlike most religions.

You do have to sit around in that religion long enough for the Hero to reach level 6 to create the Shade, but at worst most religious heroes get one XP per turn just for being a Hero. (Actually, I'm not sure any religious heroes lack the Hero promotion. I know some civilization heroes don't have it.)

It's not nearly as helpful for combat oriented heroes (since Shades have almost non-existant combat strength), though if you wanted to sit in a religion for a while for other benefits (Priests, buildings, etc.) you might pick them up to gain a Shade for settling in a city anyway.

Doing this repeatedly creates a lot of anarchy, since the Sidar aren't spiritual (unless using unrestricted leaders or modmods, etc.) and tend to not have many golden ages (maybe a few, but Sidar aren't likely to sacrifice 3+ GP for a Golden Age instead of just settling them into cities...) Still, doing it once or twice for a powerful early unit can be worth it, assuming you really want to be in another religion.

JohnCataldo said:

Religious heroes will abandon you if you switch religion... but Shades of religious heroes won't! Shades retain all the promotions of the unit that turned into a shade. This isn't amazing for all religious heroes, but works great for powerful casters. Getting Hemah or Gibbon Goetia relatively early and turning them into a Shade means you can switch away from the religion while getting a Hero Channel III Arcane caster, usually earlier than most civilizations would have any kind of Channel III caster.

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Brillant !

I suppose, that shades of heroes still have Hero promotion, and still get one free xp per turn (up to 100xp) and in case of casters they also get xp from channeling?

Jarrema said:

Brillant !

I suppose, that shades of heroes still have Hero promotion, and still get one free xp per turn (up to 100xp) and in case of casters they also get xp from channeling?

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Yep. I sort of stumbled on this in my most recent game. I have the shade of Gibbon Goetia twincasting illusions of Wraiths while I've switched into Order to have any priests at all. I probably would have lost the game much earlier but Wraith Illusions can defend against nearly anything, since they heal after each combat and have Fear, so often things won't attack them at all. I've now switched to OO, since no one was using it, to grab a late game Hemah for Snowfall and Wither, and turn my Confessors into Druids. (I don't have Strength of Will, or even mages with 26 XP, so those guys are my only Channelling III units.)

I should point out only living units can become Shades, so this won't work on Sphener or Saverous, etc. I did build Sphener just to get Life III to resurrect Rathus Denmora. He's not really that great, though, so he may become another shade...

First, thanks all for your tips!

I've noticed only one civ hadn't his top ten tips' post: the Hippus
I know they are basic to play, but I'd really like to know more with them...

The Hippus eh.

I do enjoy playing as them, not a big fan of being on the receiving end however. I'll throw some tips/observations out.

#1 Rule: Attack. Attack Attack Attack. Thats how they win, and as Tasunke, how they support their economy. If you're not in a war, you need to be on your way to one. No need to capture enemy cities, just pillage away and get techs off of your defeated enemies. Nothing stopping you from re-declaring war 10 turns later.

Leader: Tasunke needs to pretty much just build troops and keep pillaging. Rohanna can support a much bigger empire and army and can survive longer without pillaging, much better at setting up precision strikes with key units.

Civics: Both leaders are good with Aristograrianism, Rohanna is perfect for it. And Royal Guards are one of the best units in the game. Keeps your attacking stacks safe, and newly captured cities enough culture to pop their borders. The -40% distance costs are nice too.

Religions: All religions work pretty well.
Top of the list are Empy and CoE. Rathas and Shadowriders are some of the best units in the game. With Horselord are even better, and they both have very good Heroes and nice Shrines.
FoL, Order and AV each have a Mounted Religious Hero that becomes a complete powerhouse with Horselord. Ancient Forests also help with Food/Production.
RoK and OO don't have any mounted units, but extra Cash or Culture becomes very very useful with a big empire.

Wonders: Guild of the Nine and Ride of the Nine Kings are the two you want. The two you MUST get. Someone else builds it first? No problem, just take it from them.

Misc tips: With Horses coming from the Palace I usualy get Horseback riding as soon as I can and basically use Horsemen on Defense. They can get your Settlers to places far quicker and you can just attack any Barbs on the way. Nothing stopping you from sending a few warriors after them aswell.

And I cannot remember If I have documented this anywhere before, but I'll do it now. Its my Invincible Mounted Force trick.

Step 1: You need a leader with Defensive, or playing as the Hippus.
Step 2: Build horsemen. Get them to Level 3 with Flanking 3.
Step 3: Upgrade to Horse Archers or Knights.
Step 4: Victory.

The mechanics? The max withdrawal rate for normal units is 85%. Thats a Horse Archer or Knight (base Withdrawal 35%) and Flanking 3 (total withdrawal + 50%). Now, as a leader with Defensive or Horselord, you units get an extra 10%. Still, your units are capped at 85%, a Horse Archer or Knight cannot upgrade to Flanking 3, but a Horseman can. Horseman (base withdrawal 25%) with Defensive or Horselord (+10%) and Flanking 3 (+50%) gives them a withdrawal of 85%. Upgrade them, they keep their promotions but their base withdrawal rises to 35%. Voila, your Horse Archers and Knights now have a 95% Withdrawal rate.

I'll give an alternative Hippus view. You can basically play the two leaders according to their traits. With Rohanna you're looking to get a quick start, strong economy, and press that advantage home when a good opportunity arises. With Tasunke you need to get involved in conflict so you can make use of those fantastic aggressive/raiders traits. Your focus will be on mounted units but you shouldn't forgo other units that are fit for purpose. You don't even need to research horse riding ahead of bronze working, archery, sailing, or construction if you need those other techs for development. If you do get horse riding quickly you should use it to capture any barbarian cities. You start with nature mana which gives you an option to develop your recon line but it's only an option. By the mid game you should have built up an army with a core of mounted units.

The Hippus can use any religion and civics. Mounted units need some promotions to be useful so ensure they get some starting xp from somewhere. You probably don't need any special military units from your religion as your mounted forces can often be special enough. Use any mana types needed to support your economy or warfare, fire/body being common favourites for a raider nation. Pick the right times to go to war: horse archers vs axemen is good, horse archers vs champions is poor. Use the world spell in any conflict that looks pivotal. Take care of your war cry units, the buff can sometimes last longer than you might expect.

By the endgame the lack of alchemy labs and gunpowder units should be a disadvantage. You can pretty much make up for those losses however with other technologies.

Hey, U gave me what I wanted! Thx guys!

I just picked this mod up and decided I liked the look of the Elohim but browsing though this thread I didn't see them covered. Any Chance they could get a top ten tips too?

More than a top ten, a guide for Elohims: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=340099

I largely agree with the Sheaim advice on the first page but I have a little different perspective (and few additional tips):

1. I slightly prefer Os-gabella to Tebryn. I build my game around summoning, and Tebryn's Arcane trait may seem like the better choice - however, for me the KEY to victory is getting Catacomb Libralis. If you do, and can get the Planar gates going, you should be getting a lot of Mobius Witches which can be the centerpoint of your magic based strategy.

I have to admit I like wonders. Some wonders I like for any civ (guild of Hammers, The Nexus, sometimes From of the Titan and the Great Lighthouse). For the Sheaim, I want to get Catacomb Libralis and the Soul Forge. Since Os-gabella is industrious, it is a little easier getting the wonders with her.

2. With either leader, you want to go 'deep' with summoning, since both leaders are summoners. The easist is death magic, since you get solid summons with affinity. Since you can only get so many liches and eaters of dreams, you want a solid level 2 summons. Fire is also a reasonable choice but I think death is better.

If you go deep with death, you can get the level 2 and 3 promotions for free, incluing the promotion to lich.

3. So with your palace, the soul forge, and say 2 or 3 other death nodes, catacomb libralis, you will get magic users and mobius witches to be able to summon powerhouse units for 2 turns that move two. Going deep with death won't cost as much as it does with other civs, since your mobius witches will get some of the other spells you may be missing by random selection, although if you really want one like enchantment it is a little risky. (Early you may need other nodes like enchantment for economic reasons.)

4. Since you don't need to use up promotions on taking the death spells, promotions can be used for combat. In the late game on a standard map you can have 20 Mobius witches and 10 - 15 mages and 8 Eaters and liches. This gives about 30-35 wraithes and spectres, which should be combat 7, with 4 or so strength promotons'; and since they wiill be sundered, if the AC is up in the 50 - 70 range they are truly a powerhouse.

5. I know some people say the Sheaim don't need to pump up the Armageddon Counter, I disagree. The units from the planar gates can be spectacular (especially in volume), and it will make those powerhouse spectres even stronger. When the AC gets to 50 you will be getting a lot of units for free and adding 25% strength.

6. I agree getting the planar gates early may be a mistake,the early game is tough. But you want them up and running in the middle game.

7. I like to attack in the late middle game, I'm a builder. Early, you can use an army of pyre zombies on defense. If you are attacked, you can use roads to get to the enemy first, and a stack of these guys can take anyone out.

8. I've assumed all along that you get the Ashen Veil. The Stigmata of the Unborn is quite good. Mardero is very good and can cast wither to go along with your spectres and pyre zombies. Needless to say having the veil pumps up the AC. If you get close to getting the apocalypse, then build non-living units like pyre zombies and diseased corpses.

9. If you get catacomb libralis, then you will be getting a lot of Mobius witches early (which is good). If you get the nexus, you will be getting minotaurs. These are good units to go with a summoned based army (and pyre zombies), you want good defensive units to hold cities. If you use sacrifice the weak, you will probalby get public baths (succubi) and gambling houses (revelers). The succubi are really quie good. With a stack of 7 of them, casting charm, you can stop almost any enemy army in its tracks. You can use them to defend the home country whne the SoD goes out to conquer. Revelers are a solid unit but I'm not crazy about them.

Manticores are powerhouses, as good a unit as any - but you have to build a grove to get them so they will likely be a specialty. carnivals give Chaos Marauders, not as good as the other units you can get, so don't get a carnival unless you really need it.

Best wishes,

Breunor

Breunor; a nice variation on other people's version of how to play Sheaim based on Os-Gabella (Ind + Summoner) rather than the usual Tebryn Arbandi (Arcane + Summoner).

I agree with much of your advice but I favour a more flexible use of mana nodes and use Dispell Magic to swap them around. I have never been a fan of the simplistic use of all death nodes and Spectres. That certainly can work but it is limiting and not very interesting. This is mainly because I like to build the Tower of Necromancy to support my Undead troops and that needs Entropy and Shadow mana as well as the Chaos and Death from the Sheaim palace. The Tower of Necromancy gives another source of Death mana and adds the Strong promotion to all Undead (including Spectres and Skeletons). I make a big effort to built that national wonder when ever I use Spectres and then switch my nodes back to Death before going to war. Os-Gabella can build the tower easier with Industrious and I rate it higher than the Soul Forge although you can have both of course

While I'm switching nodes around I often pick up useful level 1 spells for my adepts like Haste, Enchanted Blade, Dance of blades. Some of these level 1 spells can be cast on a stack of spectres before they're used making them a lot more effective. When I upgrade my adepts to mages I make sure I have 3 Death nodes for the free Death2 promotion and 4 Death nodes when upgrading to Archmages.

I really do not like the Mobius Witch that Os-Gabella gets, unless I'm very lucky with the free sources of mana. Tebryn Arbandi witches are much better with the Arcane trait, they come with a free promotion and Potency for faster experience gain. Mobius Witches arrive with 14 exp already spent (on mostly useless promotions). If you have 3 sources of death mana then they arrive with Death2 and can immediately cast Spectre and Skeleton which is useful if you're at war but not otherwise. You have to wait for them to gain 3 exp before they get another promotion and then I usually have to pick Mobility so they can keep up with the 2 move stack. Then they have to wait an enormous time for them to gain another 9 exp for another promotion. The Spectres that these witches generate are usually basic and weaker than my best ones made with Battle mages (mages with combat promotions and extension1 for faster and stronger summons).