2k Elizabeth Replies to Steam Questions on Civ Fanatics
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Originally Posted by t0mme
What's next? Do I need to be online all the time, like Silent Hunter 5, Assassin's Creed 2 and Settlers 7? That would be an immediate no buy.
You most definitely do not have to be online all the time for Civ V - don't worry about that.
Also, if anyone has any specific questions about Steamworks and Civ, let me know, I'm happy to answer them.
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Originally Posted by AbsintheRed
What the true fans of civ here on CFC can do for a not Steam-forced version of Civ V?
Would a petition with a few thousand members be enough??
Steam is integral to the entire Civ V experience and is going to help bolster the community rather than detract from it. Both single player and multiplayer modes will benefit from it as well as getting updates and mods that work well with the game. I know that right now there isn't a ton of examples of how Steamworks is going to help you guys out, but honestly this decision was made with guys like you in mind. You are our core audience and the last thing we'd want to do is detract from your community experience.
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Originally Posted by joasoze
The problem isnt really that CIV V can be bought on Steam. The problem is that it is Steam ONLY...
Never fear - you will be able to buy Civ V through places besides Steam. We're going to have retail copies. We'll still be using Steam within those retail copies, but you can purchase through multiple channels (like your local store.)
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Originally Posted by Pakhawaj
I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but what's Steam?
Will I need the internet to run it?
Someone said earlier in this thread that it slows down the computer, I have two and a half GB of ram, will I be affected badly?
www.steampowered.com will give you a better oversight of what Steam is. It's a method of helping us install the game but more importantly a hub that will help serve the community, updates, mods, and a whole bunch of other cool stuff.
I have a laptop that is fairly underpowered and Steam does run on it. I know that previous iterations of Steam have been troublesome (years ago when it began, there were major glitches) but it has much improved. I do not believe Steam will bog down your machine while playing Civ V - we wouldn't build the game that way, anyway!
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Originally Posted by Fosse
Thank you. However, my question was not about a persistent internet connection. Rather, I'd like to know if the game will install and play without ever having to check in with distant servers to "authenticate" itself.
So, in this context, does "having Steamworks" mean that I could install and play a retail copy of the game without my computer being connected to the internet at all? My understanding is that I would not be able to, and thus will not buy the game.
However, I realize that I could be mistaken, and that Steamworks will possibly be some software bundled with the game that -- were it to connect to its servers -- would give me access to a number of features that I'm not particularly interested in having. And that I would therefore be able to play the boxed game ten years from now (I still play SMAC), even if Valve and Firaxis were to both go the way of Microprose.
You'll have to activate the game on installation, so yes, you'll need an internet connection once. As for playing the game in the future, I think Firaxis is an awesome example of a dev who is committed to their fans and the Civ games (as you certainly know) definitely stand the test of time. We know that, and we don't want that to change.
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Originally Posted by NikNak
Important, but closed, correct? There's realistically nothing that's going to change this decision at this point.
Steam is definitely in this game, yes, but the decision wasn't made in a vacuum and input from fans on many forums over many months helped inform it. And we're always looking for ways to do things better, so what you are saying is important for me. While making a version compiled specifically for each individual's needs isn't realistic, you guys can give us good ideas on what to do better. And, most importantly, I'm here right now to try and explain anything about Steam you might not know or understand.
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Originally Posted by Eejit
The DLC/microtransaction/deluxe edition aspect seems to be worrying pretty much everyone, the Steamworks integration appears to have a more mixed receiption.
The Deluxe Edition extras are just that - extras for the expanded version (and it's not just the extra Civ - the behind the scenes and soundtrack are pretty sweet to.) Beyond that, we haven't talked about any post-release plans quite yet. I would like to hear your thoughts though!
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Originally Posted by Sheershaw
Hey 2K rep, can you answer me this? What is up with that stupid Digital Deluxe crap? That is such a ing rip-off. You cut out one of the leaders from the main game and include him in the deluxe pack, include a "bonus" soundtrack that you get when you install the game anyways and look into the game files, and the videos are of no use to me, all for a price of 10 dollars more. In my mind, I am playing $10 for the privilege of playing as Babylon, one of the most basic civs in Civilization that has been included since the beginning.
You say 2K listens to gamers, yet that is complete and utter bull. Why in the world would you cut content out of the game and sell it separately if you really cared about gamers? This reeks of some executive who thinks we are just walking wallets and not human beings. I do not think anyone said "HEY! CUT CONTENT OUT OF THE GAME AND SELL IT SEPARATELY!" And if they did, I want you to point me towards them.
I do not care about Steam. It's the DLC and locking content out that bothers me. If it is not removed (like 2K will listen to me), I am not buying Civ V. Instead, I'm warning people not to buy it, because if they do, they'll be supporting a faceless, greedy corporation that does not care in the slightest about the wants and needs of gamers.
Don't worry, I know this message will be promptly ignored. And if it isn't, don't say something like "oh its an extra." An "extra" would be those videos. An extra would be a poster. An extra would be something cool, yet trivial, and something that wouldn't decrease the value of the game.
I don't ignore things like this, don't worry (although the copious smiley faces replacing some of your choice words made me distracted!)
There isn't a ton of info out on the game so far, so I understand some of you are wary, but we have a lot of civs in the game and the regular edition is anything but lacking features, civs, and gameplay. I don't think there's any way I can convince you the bonus content is that - extra - instead of something cut, so I hope when more details come out about Civilization V you'll understand than you will have oodles to do and many civs to master even if you don't want to grab the edition with Babylon in it. I also understand if behind-the-scenes videos or the music isn't your cup of tea, either - but I know that some people really do value that stuff, and for them, I hope they like it. But that's why it's optional - we want to give people choice.
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Originally Posted by evrett37
"players will enjoy the benefits of the Steamworks�' features included in all PC versions"
I read this as using the multiplayer portal will require Steam as will auto-updating whether you buy the Steam version or not.
I'd really like to know what Firaxis was thinking not handholding this announcement more..I mean its not like it would be hard to predict how the community would react to this. I'm guessing since common sense questions like "is steam required for x,y,z" havnt been addressed out of the gate they prob arnt answers we are going to like.
I know I'm not putting it on my computer with steam included. I gave it a try once and got burned.
Steam is part of our game - it is part of it whether you buy the game in a store or on Steam itself. If you have a specific question about how Steam works, please ask and I'll find you the answer if I don't know it off the top of my head, and I'm sorry if any of our statements have confused you. I'm happy to address all questions.
I think the easiest way to say this (which will take more than 140 characters, and that probably will help things a bit) is that while all versions have Steam, and so you need Steam to play the game, having Steam does not mean you need to be online. You will need to be online to install the game (for an activation) but after that you can go offline and play the game. A persistent internet connection isn't necessary. I think some people might be confused and think that because a lot of Steam games are online games, that all of them must be - and that's not the case.
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Originally Posted by Savoir10
Are you confirming that Securom will not be a part of this games DRM. If so I better start looking for a new computer post haste. Excuse me I'm off to do my happy dance.
That's the case, yes.
can answer some of these questions - others I'm going to have to test personally.
1. While Steam offers an offline mode, it appears to only function if I explicitly enter offline mode while I have an active internet connection. Given that I also have Valve games that I play online, it isn't likely that I'll enter offline mode frequently; will I be able to play CiV if I do not explicitly enter offline mode but lack an active internet connection? Currently, I cannot even start Steam without active internet, as it attempts to update when I start it and simply hangs there until it can contact the official servers (Steam is fully updated as well).
Yes, I believe you should be able to without an internet connection. The game will function like other games that use Steam - you will have to be in offline mode, but you will be able to play. I'm not sure exactly why your Steam account is doing what it's doing, though, so tonight I'm going to test a variety of games on my account and see how exactly offline mode works without internet connection. But while you need Steam for the game, you can play offline.
2. Will CiV follow the standard Steam policy of requiring complete updates in most scenarios? In particular, will a fully updated game be required to play the game in offline mode, and will I be able to play multi-player games without having updated to the latest version? This is primarily a concern with updates breaking any mods I have installed and breaking compatibility with existing saves. In a similar vein, will there be any support for rolling back to a previous version, should I need to reinstall the game at a later date (so I may continue using any mods or saves I have backed up)?
One of the things I know we are striving for is a cohesive and better experience with mods - so this is something again I have to ask more about, but I know we're aiming to have the game be up-to-date AND the mods still work. Again, this is something I'll have to test personally - I believe I've played offline without updating, but until I check it out myself right now, I don't want to vouch for my memory.
I'll also have more info on how patching will work (and the modding scene in general) in the coming weeks and months. But as I said before, we are very dedicated to the community. It's a priority for me to make sure those elements work well.
3. Will CiV use Steam to manage the installation of mods? I'm thinking primarily of something like the VPK system used for Left4Dead here, though there is a DLC tab for L4D2 as well (as far as I know however, it's only used for the pre-order baseball bat). I am mostly curious to know if a more formalized module installation system is in effect or being developed.
Again, I think that over the coming weeks and months as we explain exactly how the ins and outs of the system works for you, this will become clear. I have some big features planned. These questions are already en route to being answered for you!
4. Not a Steam question, but I'll ask anyways: Are Babylon assets included in non-deluxe installations? Obviously I wouldn't be able to play as Babylon without purchasing the deluxe version, but will I see Babylon in multi-player games? Will I see Babylon in single-player games? If Babylon assets are included in the non-deluxe version, will there be steps taken to prevent their usage in mods?
I'll get back to you on this one. I don't know!
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Originally Posted by AbsintheRed
Blablabla, right now you are not looked kindly on
The whole modding system will be ruined :S
CFC and other forums will be useless, as you will need to have all your files through steam
Rather reopen the poll
I don't believe CFC will ever be useless. This place is a staple for all of us.
Drak:
You had a long post, so I'm not going to re-quote. I gathered answers to questions I didn't have the answers to on Friday, and I'll clarify some of your questions.
Steam running in the background doesn't mean you are online (i.e. on the internet.) The program is running, but you aren't online. So yes, if you once launched the game and activated it online with Steam, after that you can play offline without a problem. Logging on to another computer will require an online activation, but after that you can then play offline with that computer as well.
As for how mods may or may not break with updates of the game, I don't have an answer for that yet and when we know more, I'll let you know. It's a difficult question to answer in general because it depends on the mod itself. There is always a possibility something will break, but we'd like to minimize that.
And I'm sorry if you think that me not having an answer, or needing to ask the dev (or test myself) means I'm spouting a corporate line. Since I make the "lines" and I don't consider myself very corporate whatsoever, I guess we're going to have to disagree on that point. Just because I don't have the answer you want (or like) doesn't mean I'm out to get you or deceive you. But again - I'll just have to prove myself on that front, right? ;-)
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Originally Posted by Eejit
2kelizabeth: Any word on whether the devs plan to use optional but nifty features such as SteamCloud or SteamPlay?
No word on any other details yet - but stay tuned. I'll let you know!
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Originally Posted by mamba
Just started Steam, no games running. It takes up 36MB of RAM and uses between 0 and 2 % CPU on my system (sometimes it blips up to 5, but large the majority of the time it is at 0%). Intel Core2 Duo T9300 CPU (notebook).
Not very scientific, but it gives you an indication that it literally will not have any influence on the game performance at all.
The guys at Firaxis have given me some more details that will clear up some of this confusion for you. It's not something we've overlooked, I promise.
In terms of memory, Civ V is limited by virtual address space, not physical memory, and Steam runs out of a different address space which actually saves us a bit of memory (which other networking services don't do.) In fact, the term they used for looking at memory usage was "hunting down memory banditos" which I find hilarious and thought you would enjoy.
They've also done extensive performance analyses on Civ V for both GPU and CPU usage and Steamworks doesn't factor into performance in any meaningful way, even when the game is CPU-bound. (They've actually seend Civ V outperform Civ 4 on the same machine.) Steam hasn't interfered with a high frame rate, either.
This is, indeed, true. Steam will be used with Civ V and you will have to run it when you play the game, but it won't prevent you from playing mods - we're not interested in limiting you guys. We are using the system to get you guys to connect together and find content easily, to have updates conveniently, to have a system that doesn't require a DVD... Steam is all of those things.
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Originally Posted by da_Vinci
You may well be right, but I would like to hear that from 2K Elizabeth herself, perhaps along with the reasons why that is "... for you own good"
(Hmm ... those words always make me nervous! )
dV
You are going to have to use Steam to play the game - for any version, any mode. Details on modes of play, single player and multiplayer, as well as modding details, are all coming down the line.
Hey guys! It's me again.
Two Valve representatives were working with Firaxis in their offices this week and the devs took some time to chat with them about your concerns, and I have three points to make that I think will help a lot of you out.
1. How much memory and disk space does the Steam client use? The client itself takes up less than 20Mb on the drive. Valve has just released a new version of the client which uses less RAM than previous versions, and theyre working on keeping the memory footprint small. I don't have the exact number right now, but I will soon if you are interested.
2. What personally identifiable information does Valve collect with Steam? The only information players are required to provide is a valid email address and a password, and to verify they are older than 13 years of age. All other information is optional, and a players profile can be set to private. Valve does track the time spent playing a game, per account, but does not collect information about what other processes are running concurrently on the computer.
3. How often do I have to connect with Steam after the activation? Never again, if you choose to play in offline mode. The Steam client will still start, but will not communicate with the servers. A connection is required to activate the game and an update must be applied at that time, but after the initial activation, a player never again has to connect their computer to the Internet. However, if not connected, the players will not be able to receive updates, save to the cloud, play multiplayer, earn achievements, or receive free content.
Let me know if you have any other questions - we'll do our best to get them answered for you.
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Originally Posted by atticus finch
I've never bought a game off Steam or a game that required steam. However, Civ 5 has made me consider doing so. But here's my situation. I have my gaming computer in my room. We have a computer in our living room with the internet on it. I'm 15, my parents would never let me have the internet on my computer, so that's out of the question. I was wondering if I would be able to temporarily hook my computer up to the internet, install Civ 5(or any other game requiring steam) then go into offline mode, take my computer off the internet, take it back into my room, and play just like a any other game. Would that work?
I just triple confirmed this with the devs and Valve. Yes, that will work. If you want multiplayer, to earn achievements, or to get the game updates and content you'll need to go back out there and hook up again, but you will definitely be able to play offline without a connection. Steam will start, but the internet connection won't.
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Originally Posted by milan
I think the main question most of us are wondering about is: Why will steam be obligatory and not a choice? Why don't you make two Civ5 distros - with and without steam so everyone can be happy?
I as many others will not buy a game that ships with steam/any other similar service.
Steam is an integral part of the game - we're building the game for and with Steam. That's the simplest way I can explain it. It's part of the game.
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Originally Posted by Nick Danger
This is an interesting dance.
Milan is asking why steam is an integral part of the game and not optional. Your answer is the circular 'it's integral because it's integral'.
I think it's obvious why it's integral. And I think it's obvious that your job prevents you from saying the obvious answer. You're in a tough position and I empathize.
We long-time players who want steam to be a choice are in a tough position too. Abandoning a game we've loyally supported for almost 20 years is not something we relish. Hopefully you empathize with us too.
I'll go try and get you a more technical answer - I'm not a programmer, so me explaining how Steam is hooked into the game in the detail you are desiring isn't working. I know that I've said we use it for updates, content, multiplayer, start up, and delivery, but if you want more programmer-speak details of how that works with Steam, you're right - I don't code games, so I can't provide that.
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Originally Posted by Willem
So while you're around 2K Elizabeth, would you please confirm or deny a rumour that's going around about having to download a 1 gig update when the game is first activated? If that's the case, then you're excluding alot of people from ever getting the game. Someone on dial-up is not going to wait 40 hurs or so for their download to complete in order to play Civ 5, and some of us have limited bandwidth and will be unable to get access to a file that large.
I can tell you those are definitely rumors, because those details are not finalized yet. I know that updates will be available via Steam, but I don't know the particulars yet. I'll tell you when I do.
I can't imagine a 1 gig update, as I've never seen anything that large before, but until I have a final answer from the devs, all I can say is that is certainly not something that's happening right now.
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Originally Posted by kayapo
Hello 2K Elizabeth,
I would like to know how involved Firaxis was with this decision to make CIV5 exclusive to Steam.
I know this is not something any Firaxis employee will be able to talk about and I'm almost sure you won't say anything on the matter either.
As a fan and a customer of Firaxis products I would really like to know how much of this decision is theirs and how much is 2K's.
Thanks for you time.
I can definitely answer that for you on behalf of Firaxis and 2K Games employees.
We work together on decisions like this - neither tells the other what to do. We are a team, and always have been.
Also, I want to clarify that just because this is a Steam game does not mean it's digital download only. You'll be able to buy the game from a store, just like you have in the past.
Why thank you!
, i.e. someone who wants to take responsibility for their publication and any subsequent ruckus :suicide:.
