Publisher: pls explain 80USD Australia price on Steam

Since all the prices seem to refer to the Australian market?

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The prices refer to the Australian market. The tax refers to the Australian market. How can you possibly conclude from this that the prices don't include tax?

Since it seems to be rather unlikely that Steam would do gamers in other countries good, yet not in Down Under

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But pricing is based on whatever prices are set by 2K Australia. Prices largely determined by publishers, not Steam.

Once again, since all the prices seem to refer to the Australian market

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Yes.... and the publishers set prices in the Australian market. What's your point?

Your logic here is.... absent.

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I'm still baffled by the idea of a 47% import tariff, and I'm not completely convinced. There's no evidence for it in the tariff page Thyrwyn links to. I didn't get anywhere with googling either.
But it WOULD explain the vast majority of the price difference.

Everybody buying Apple is getting shafted not just the convicts.

I have little confidence in being able to determine the amount of tariff placed on software with a quick google, and I have little interest in spending my morning looking for it. That link was as close as I got - and there may be other factors as well.

I was curious and I have no idea if it is there or not - but I have certainly heard of stranger things.

I couldn't find much googling either. Unfortunately Australia has one of the most complex tax/customs laws in the World. Lots of taxes are "hidden" and even the experts get confused by it all. Some of these hidden taxes are only found out on direct inquiry to the ATO or customs.

It sucks, but that's the nature of the beast that's come about. This is in the realm of what the recent Henry report was supposed to fix, making our tax system simpler. It's a shame that neither Abbot or Rudd (or as I call them, Abbott and Costello since they're both clowns) will apply the full Henry report.

Dale said:

Unfortunately Australia has one of the most complex tax/customs laws in the World.

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This I can agree with, along with the disappointment with the Henry review recommendations being largely ignored.

It feels a bit weird to take your brothers word as the final say on an issue with as critical importance as the Aussies price of civ5 but what else can be said?

One thing that does lead me to continue to be skeptical though is the question why haven't I heard of this before. Gamers are known for getting their knickers in a knot about this sort of thing and I would have expected that if a tax like this existed aussie gamers would be demanding the government change it. I mean, who cares about the absence of a R rating for video games if we're paying 47% extra for every game anyway? Something just doesn't add up IMO.

Dale said:

Now the tax bit comes in when 2K Australia purchases the items from 2K USA. 2K Australia is "importing" those 100,000 units. They will incur duties and taxes (including GST) which equates to ~47% of cost price.

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47% of that doesn't add up to A$40 price difference. Nothing like it.

(I love a Google challenge)
Not sure if this is relevant since it is not clear at what point the importation takes place, (but I have to believe that whenever it happens it is a digital transmission!) but I found the following information on the Free Trade Agreement between the US and Australia.

It includes the following wording:

The Agreement ensures that digital products, including software, music, video, and text, will receive non-discriminatory treatment and makes permanent the current practice of not subjecting such transmissions to customs duties.

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Ahriman said:

Your logic here is.... absent.

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Ahhh... the Steam Sunshine Squad it doing their rain dances again.

But since it's fun, I will try to point out how our friends try to confuse people.
The whole ... ahem... 'discussion' started with this posting:

Originally Posted by Mercade View Post
The point that seems to be missing in this thread is that Civ5 is already available in Australia at vastly different prices, see the preorder thread listed in my signature.

Steam . . . . USD 80 = AUD 92 (excl download cost)
Mighty Ape . USD 63 = AUD 72 (incl shipping)
Play Asia . . USD 60 = AUD 69 (incl shipping)

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Which lead me to point out that it is not 2k/Firaxis, but Steam who has to take responsibility for their Australian prices, as you can read in the spoilers.
And then, miraculously there happened to be all kinds of 'misunderstandings'

(Disclaimer: there have been three main statements of mine which have been 'discussed'. I have put the statements and the resulting 'discussion' in three different spoilers, one for each subtopic)

'Misunderstanding #1: If Steam is more expensive than competitors, it is due to the tax, or missing tax, or no tax at all, or ... what is tax, after all?


'Misunderstanding' #2: It is all 2K's fault! (Neglecting that Steam in comparison to competitors is not cheap)

'Misunderstanding' #3: It is all 2K's fault! (Neglecting the fact that there are different prices for the one and same market)

I can't follow your logic. You include Ahriman's statements in your post which seem quite reasonable to me and somehow you ignore them without showing why they're invalid...?

Steam doesn't set prices, the publisher does.

On reflection, his logic isn't entirely unreasonable here (though he doesn't make the case very clearly). The large price difference between some retail outlets in Australia and the Steam price in Australia is very puzzling. We do not observe those price differences in other countries.

The only logical outcomes are:
a) The publisher is setting a different wholesale price for digital vs boxed versions in Australia (but not other markets). Not impossible, but seems unlikely.
b) There is some differential treatment in tax access for the digital version sold in Australia vs box copy sold in Australia (seems unlikely; if there was such a difference you would think it would favor the digital product. Only way I can see this happening is if the digital version is seen as an "import" and charged the tax whereas the retail version is burned/boxed domestically and is not taxed)
c) The wholesale prices is the same, but the bricks'n'mortar stores are choosing to take a lower markup than the digital version, which implies some level of agency by the vendor in setting the final price.

He's arguing for c), and saying that Steam is choosing to take a larger margin in Australia on this product than the other retailers.

The extension of the argument (Therefore Steam is Bad for Gamers Everywhere) remains baseless.

This isn't Steam's fault, it's the publishers.

Smart Aussies import it seems.

Senethro said:

Steam doesn't set prices, the publisher does.

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Ok now i would really like it if someone could really clarify this things for me.

retail versions:

• the publisher sets the prices
• the publisher sells the retail versions of the game to a fixed price (sometimes with discount) - the remaining difference the set price is the gain/portion for the firms in the chain
• but distributers can reduce the final price of the retail version, effectly reducing their gain/portion (without needed allowance by the publisher)

digital versions:

• the publisher sets the price
• the percentage of the price for the publisher is defined (which is equal to a fixed amount of money - eg 60% of 50$ would be 30$), the remainder of the price is the gain/portion of the platform (eg 40% - 20$)
• but the platform cannot reduce the price - even if they would only reduce their part of the cake, still paying the publisher the money defined in the contract without allowance? (eg selling the game for 40$ - 30$ to the publisher, 10$ for the platform)

So there can´t be any price competition between the online distributors because the publisher have full control of the prices there?

Commander Bello said:

'Misunderstanding #1: If Steam is more expensive than competitors, it is due to the tax, or missing tax, or no tax at all, or ... what is tax, after all?

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PlayAsia.com is not in Australia, therefore not liable to Australian taxes. You cannot compare the prices. 2K Australia sets Australian pricing, 2K International sets Asian pricing.

The difference in pricing could be quite simply one thing: retailer markup.

Steam adds 30% markup (this is their publicly known markup on games) whilst other retailers due to local competition have much less markup. I know some stores only markup games 5%.

HOWEVER, 2K Australia sets the price that retailers purchase the game from them for, and pays all the taxes, duties etc. This price to retailer includes all of this. So if they sell the game to retailers at $50 AUD, then Steam will charge $65 AUD (markup 30%) and other retailers will sell for their markup ($52.50 is 5% markup).

Dale said:

PlayAsia.com is not in Australia, therefore not liable to Australian taxes. You cannot compare the prices. 2K Australia sets Australian pricing, 2K International sets Asian pricing.

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As stated all the time, I have taken Mercade's prices. I did not check about whether any of the competitors is Australia-based or not.
Actually, since I am located in the European Union, this does not make much difference, as far as I can see, as the the - admittedly here will be a problem due to the verification - location of the sales transaction, which should be the location of the purchaser, is important. The latter is even emphasized by the fact that Mercator's statement even included shipping costs.

This issue may be handled differently in other locations on this blue planet, but that is something which I cannot find out - at least not within the limits of spending reasonalbe amounts of time and effort.

Dale said:

The difference in pricing could be quite simply one thing: retailer markup.

Steam adds 30% markup (this is their publicly known markup on games) whilst other retailers due to local competition have much less markup. I know some stores only markup games 5%.

HOWEVER, 2K Australia sets the price that retailers purchase the game from them for, and pays all the taxes, duties etc. This price to retailer includes all of this. So if they sell the game to retailers at $50 AUD, then Steam will charge $65 AUD (markup 30%) and other retailers will sell for their markup ($52.50 is 5% markup).

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This here seems to be the vital part of the posting.
2K Australia sets a price for the retailers and the retailers (physical or virtual [internet-based] copy) determine the resulting price for the final customer.

Steam is responsible for the final price of the product (Civ5 in this case) being bought by making use of their so-called "service".

This is, what has been denied by the Steam Sunshine Squad many times.
Thanks for proving that my understanding of the matter has been correct.

Commander Bello said:

As stated all the time, I have taken Mercade's prices. I did not check about whether any of the competitors is Australia-based or not.

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Mighty Ape.com.au is clearly an Australian company selling the product on the Australian market for Australian prices.

Personally I find the discussion of who exactly sets the price on the steam webshop moot, although I'm sure we could go back and forth a few more pages on it.

What would interest me as a consumer is that if I could buy a download product for approx AU$ 92 or a retail product delivered to my home for AU$ 74, then I don't think as a consumer I'd pay AU$ 18 for the privilege of not having a DVD.

Steam Sunshine Squad? I've said on many occasions that I'll buy a physical copy as Steam is normally more expensive than an internet outlet like Play.com.

I don't know if this helps but you can always buy it from amazon for $49.99 USD / 57.3148 AUD

http://www.amazon.com/Sid-Meiers-Ci..._1_1?s=software&ie=UTF8&qid=1277281245&sr=1-1

Having said that the delivery cost is something like $15 AUD, nothings cheap.

chrisj007 said:

I don't know if this helps but you can always buy it from amazon for $49.99 USD / 57.3148 AUD

http://www.amazon.com/Sid-Meiers-Ci..._1_1?s=software&ie=UTF8&qid=1277281245&sr=1-1

Having said that the delivery cost is something like $15 AUD, nothings cheap.

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Are there any region restrictions though? Purchasing a US-based license key and trying to use it in Australia could have implications, right? I don't know how this will work with civ5 though. I'm hoping 2K Greg answers this with his FAQ.

PieceOfMind said:

Are there any region restrictions though? Purchasing a US-based license key and trying to use it in Australia could have implications, right? I don't know how this will work with civ5 though. I'm hoping 2K Greg answers this with his FAQ.

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I can see this one backfiring. I can't install CiV on a laptop that I want to take with me on holidays, because I bought it in the UK?

Mercade said:

Steam . . . . USD 80 = AUD 92 (excl download cost)
Mighty Ape . USD 63 = AUD 72 (incl shipping)

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For comparison, New Zealand Prices:

Steam: USD 80 = NZD 113
Mighty Ape = NZD 90 = USD 64.

So at least might ape are selling at the same price in NZ as in Australia.