SGOTM 11 - Plastic Ducks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I think micros of workers and tile management are trivial issue and it not necessary to test run in this stage. My suggestion is that it should be enough to only describe the big picture in the plan.
1. City build
2. Rough war plan
3. Worker direction
4. Diplomatic
5. Tech
Note: A new cat is moving toward west, the next player should turn it around, also we can get the chariot back to scout Meh's SOD, spies are not necessary if we decide to go to war, delete them all after scouting the barbarian island.
Can let Bombay pump a few more cats now and the WEs from Vij alone should be more than enough. Lal can devote a settler and then produce HMs/warriors with Gonda.
1. City build
2. Rough war plan
3. Worker direction
4. Diplomatic
5. Tech
Note: A new cat is moving toward west, the next player should turn it around, also we can get the chariot back to scout Meh's SOD, spies are not necessary if we decide to go to war, delete them all after scouting the barbarian island.
Can let Bombay pump a few more cats now and the WEs from Vij alone should be more than enough. Lal can devote a settler and then produce HMs/warriors with Gonda.
dingding
Prince
Converting Meh early and spreading the religion to him are not contradictory. Of course the goal is to spread Hindu to all his cities.
Spies can be shipped to Meh to avoid being caught. The risk is pretty little actually.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
I'll have access to Civ tomorrow and the time to plan/play a set so... Maybe you should save some hundreds of $$$$...
I'm ok with the 2 turns pre set. Be it Bugg or Duckweed who plays it, well, their choice
Upon reading DingDing's and Duckweed's arguments about vassalizing Mehmed, maybe it should be the next step. (i.e. not wait until airships but just a decent number of Elephants.)
Spies can be caught when making an action, this is the part that worries me more. Also in my Spying SG game with Shyuhe and obsolete we were dumbstruck that gifting 4 cities only got us +1 for liberating.
In any case it is just more risky than a 'safe' war
@BIC
I still need to play at least 1 set in this game and it'd be better to finish it earlier as you never know when someone can go busy... better to have the most opinions we can get (that and I'd like to keep up with some other games, like the DR for example)
In any case it is just more risky than a 'safe' war
@BIC
I still need to play at least 1 set in this game and it'd be better to finish it earlier as you never know when someone can go busy... better to have the most opinions we can get (that and I'd like to keep up with some other games, like the DR for example)
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Alright, I can take the set after as well
No problem with me. In fact I'll have more time next week so it may be for the best.
Unrelated stuff :
It will be a pleasure to read your DR again. That's my favourite read on these boards.
And... I didn't know you had a SG with Obsolete... Hum... I've been... Not sure how to confess it... You may or may not have noticed it : I've tried not to be a perfect ass with him ("Toku/Monarch early game" thread) but I came close to it. I hope it won't put you in an uncomfortable situation. I just can't stand how big he talks, his play being "optimal" even when he loses a game (SE3 Hatty) and everything else being either a "joke" or "stupid" or, well... Sorry.
No problem with me. In fact I'll have more time next week so it may be for the best.
Unrelated stuff :
It will be a pleasure to read your DR again. That's my favourite read on these boards.
And... I didn't know you had a SG with Obsolete... Hum... I've been... Not sure how to confess it... You may or may not have noticed it : I've tried not to be a perfect ass with him ("Toku/Monarch early game" thread) but I came close to it. I hope it won't put you in an uncomfortable situation. I just can't stand how big he talks, his play being "optimal" even when he loses a game (SE3 Hatty) and everything else being either a "joke" or "stupid" or, well... Sorry.
@kossin:
So you're picking up this set then? Should we just wait for you to play the 2 turns as well? Or do we want duckweed to just complete the war he started so we have a better idea before planning your entire 15 turns?
After the 2 turns, I suppose I can try to update the testgame. It probably won't be 100%, but that shouldn't matter? I'm pretty sure we won't need the testgame before that?
So you're picking up this set then? Should we just wait for you to play the 2 turns as well? Or do we want duckweed to just complete the war he started so we have a better idea before planning your entire 15 turns?
After the 2 turns, I suppose I can try to update the testgame. It probably won't be 100%, but that shouldn't matter? I'm pretty sure we won't need the testgame before that?
@duckweed
Heh.. ok.. let's hope it works like that
If everyone is ok with me taking this set, I'll just complete the (close to) two turns tonight. All I'll do is reduce defences (this turn) and sacrifice one cat to take out spain (next turn), and explore the barb island (2 turns). I'll run HMs towards Madrid/Cordoba.
Not sure if there are workers to give new tasks, but I'll figure it out. (Probably not that important right now anyways)
Heh.. ok.. let's hope it works like that
If everyone is ok with me taking this set, I'll just complete the (close to) two turns tonight. All I'll do is reduce defences (this turn) and sacrifice one cat to take out spain (next turn), and explore the barb island (2 turns). I'll run HMs towards Madrid/Cordoba.
Not sure if there are workers to give new tasks, but I'll figure it out. (Probably not that important right now anyways)
Sounds good Bugg.
What about city builds?? (infra)
Are we planning on keeping or releasing cities we capture from Mehmed?
If that's the case, then we don't need to spread Hindu as much.
If we do want to keep them, having FP over there will be greatly needed so plan for courthouses and some chops in Madrid to get it ASAP.
What about city builds?? (infra)
Are we planning on keeping or releasing cities we capture from Mehmed?
If that's the case, then we don't need to spread Hindu as much.
If we do want to keep them, having FP over there will be greatly needed so plan for courthouses and some chops in Madrid to get it ASAP.
I was thinking we could just do the 2-ish turns first. Then I'll update the testgame (more or less correct), and then we figure out builds.
Not really any infra we need to worry about for this turn and start of next. I suppose there's a couple of things:
Nothing really better than Parthenon in Madras, like I dunno.. Harbor? Probably doesn't matter
Do we want the Uni in Agra?
EDIT: Could whip stable in Vijay this turn to get started on WE next turn. That's about it.
Other than that war plan is (like I said earlier):
Siege this turn + next.
Suicide 1 or 2 cats on Barcelona.
Attack with whatever best %-units available
Cap Izzy
Scout Barb island
Move HMs towards Aksoum this turn (decisions next turn)
Save + upload + fix testgame
Discuss
Not really any infra we need to worry about for this turn and start of next. I suppose there's a couple of things:
Nothing really better than Parthenon in Madras, like I dunno.. Harbor? Probably doesn't matter
Do we want the Uni in Agra?
EDIT: Could whip stable in Vijay this turn to get started on WE next turn. That's about it.
Other than that war plan is (like I said earlier):
Siege this turn + next.
Suicide 1 or 2 cats on Barcelona.
Attack with whatever best %-units available
Cap Izzy
Scout Barb island
Move HMs towards Aksoum this turn (decisions next turn)
Save + upload + fix testgame
Discuss
@bugg123
I tried to let Madras grow as fast as possible since it has the possibility to produce 1GP, hence I don't like to whip it any more after Market.
We can probably do a 2 pop whip of univ in Agra. With 2 gold mines, it will pay off soon.
Edit: There are quite a few forests in the new cities, they will help the infra up faster in Aksum and HMs in Gonda. Also try to send 1 or 2 FWs to Madrid to help the new cities there.
@kossin
I think FP in Madrid won't pay off since it require 4 more CHs. Although they are needed in some of the new conquered cities, by the time FP is available to build, it's almost the end of the game. The war with Meh is probably ready to be launched ~20 turns later and that's the time to wrap the game.
BTW, we can't liberate Meh's city before we switch him to Hindu, otherwise it will annoy Saladin.
I tried to let Madras grow as fast as possible since it has the possibility to produce 1GP, hence I don't like to whip it any more after Market.
We can probably do a 2 pop whip of univ in Agra. With 2 gold mines, it will pay off soon.
Edit: There are quite a few forests in the new cities, they will help the infra up faster in Aksum and HMs in Gonda. Also try to send 1 or 2 FWs to Madrid to help the new cities there.
@kossin
I think FP in Madrid won't pay off since it require 4 more CHs. Although they are needed in some of the new conquered cities, by the time FP is available to build, it's almost the end of the game. The war with Meh is probably ready to be launched ~20 turns later and that's the time to wrap the game.
BTW, we can't liberate Meh's city before we switch him to Hindu, otherwise it will annoy Saladin.
Sounds fine then go ahead Bugg.
@Duckweed
I mean liberate the cities to a new AI, that is create a 7th AI in the game. Not give them to Meh.
This way we save up on hundreds of hammers trying to spread the religion.
The only downside becomes that with 4 vassals we get -4 with Saladin which could block his vote for UN. At +5 currently we can get 3 from religion, 2 from Theocracy 2 from fair trade and 1~2 from liberating cities on his continent so 8~9 and 3 new vassals is -3 so 5~6 therefore +10~11 total. We substract 1 from difficulty, 1 from leaderboard position (maybe we can gift him a bunch of techs to bring his score up) and finally the random number generated at the start. My guess is the relations are within the 6~11 range with the worst and best case scenario.
Now I'm not sure we'll get -4 from 4 vassals and what the random attitude is(we could estimate this from an old screenshot maybe but it'll be hard) but I'm pretty sure we'll get 8 at the worst possible case.
Otherwise spreading Hindu to 1 city of his, demand he convert to Hindu as part of Capitulation and gift back some cities will work too. I just think saving hammers means more gold means mre research means faster UN.
@Duckweed
I mean liberate the cities to a new AI, that is create a 7th AI in the game. Not give them to Meh.
This way we save up on hundreds of hammers trying to spread the religion.
The only downside becomes that with 4 vassals we get -4 with Saladin which could block his vote for UN. At +5 currently we can get 3 from religion, 2 from Theocracy 2 from fair trade and 1~2 from liberating cities on his continent so 8~9 and 3 new vassals is -3 so 5~6 therefore +10~11 total. We substract 1 from difficulty, 1 from leaderboard position (maybe we can gift him a bunch of techs to bring his score up) and finally the random number generated at the start. My guess is the relations are within the 6~11 range with the worst and best case scenario.
Now I'm not sure we'll get -4 from 4 vassals and what the random attitude is(we could estimate this from an old screenshot maybe but it'll be hard) but I'm pretty sure we'll get 8 at the worst possible case.
Otherwise spreading Hindu to 1 city of his, demand he convert to Hindu as part of Capitulation and gift back some cities will work too. I just think saving hammers means more gold means mre research means faster UN.
dingding
Prince
Mathematically, when the total maintenance of Spanish + Ottoman cities > Output of the Spanish + Ottoman cities, we should set up a new AI.
To avoid spreading Hindu there, you can liberate the cities at the turn before the UN vote. (seems not very wise for milking?)
PS. Liberating AI won’t cause –1 relation IIRC.
About relationship with Saladin, it may work to bribe him to invade Meh with us to gain some points. Don’t have time to look into it.
Sounds good. Maybe the HM at hand can make it immediately.
To avoid spreading Hindu there, you can liberate the cities at the turn before the UN vote. (seems not very wise for milking?)
PS. Liberating AI won’t cause –1 relation IIRC.
About relationship with Saladin, it may work to bribe him to invade Meh with us to gain some points. Don’t have time to look into it.
Sounds good. Maybe the HM at hand can make it immediately.
Played and uploaded
Forgot to move spy this turn before uploading, so attached a screenie. Still have not located Fur. This doesn't seem like the "heavily guarded by vile barbarians" city....
Oh yeah.. good thing I'm not the one in charge of most wars since I had no real luck here.... anyways... will look into fixing the testgame.
Most importantly, we need to still locate the fur....
Barb-island:
Got hit by a demand:
Forgot to move spy this turn before uploading, so attached a screenie. Still have not located Fur. This doesn't seem like the "heavily guarded by vile barbarians" city....
Oh yeah.. good thing I'm not the one in charge of most wars since I had no real luck here.... anyways... will look into fixing the testgame.
Most importantly, we need to still locate the fur....
Barb-island:
Got hit by a demand:
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
"Set up a new AI"... As in "create a colony" ?
I've never done such a thing but I can see how it would be interesting, here, if we took 4+ cities from Mehmed.
I guess it would depend on how long it would take us to capture those cities.
The biggest advantage I can see is that with a colony, we wouldn't need to balance city count between Izzie and Mehmed --> No worries about one of them breaking free.
But maybe balancing that count is easy... I don't see Izzie breaking free anytime soon.
By the way, when will you play a set again, DingDing ?
@ Bugg :
I'm sure it will go fine. Have fun !
EDIT : You went ahead already ^^ Well... I'm sure it went fine !
@bugg123
So you only played 1 turn. I checked the save and found that the spy was not moved there, but in your screenshot, it was moved. If the save in your computer was the one generating the screenshot, then it's fine, but you still need to upload that one, in which the spy was moved. Otherwise, we need to explain to AlanH.
@kossin
when creating colony, you have to liberate all cities in that continent. The 2 Spanish cities especially Madrid are pretty good to be kept. I think colony won't be an issue since Meh's cities won't come out of revolt before he bend and we can liberate them to Meh later. Creating a colony in the barbarian island can be considered since they will be captured soon and are commercial holes. We can just keep the FUR city.
So you only played 1 turn. I checked the save and found that the spy was not moved there, but in your screenshot, it was moved. If the save in your computer was the one generating the screenshot, then it's fine, but you still need to upload that one, in which the spy was moved. Otherwise, we need to explain to AlanH.
@kossin
when creating colony, you have to liberate all cities in that continent. The 2 Spanish cities especially Madrid are pretty good to be kept. I think colony won't be an issue since Meh's cities won't come out of revolt before he bend and we can liberate them to Meh later. Creating a colony in the barbarian island can be considered since they will be captured soon and are commercial holes. We can just keep the FUR city.
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