SGOTM 12 - T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't

City 2 should run 2 scientists. With Fish, Cows & Elephants, it can build a library after the 2nd WB. When it hits pop 4 it can gve the Phants to city 3, and then simply use Fish & Cows, and run 2 scientists. It will still grow, just not that fast.

I don't know about slavery, too early to tell.

ChrisShaffer said:

Agreed that Trystero's sheet is good for our purposes. I updated it with Neil's plan with my variations through turn 66. Of course, once we see more resources or copper or an AI everything will change.

If you give the AI a unit in eyesight of us in worldbuilder, it will attack, so there is no grace period.

We can't make peace before Aesthetics, so we'll have plenty of time to rethink that decision. However, if we stay at war indefinitely we will get terribly unhappy from the war weariness.



Don't really understand what you are saying here, can you reword?

Click to expand...

Sorry about both the delay and bad wording. I've been under the impression that people thought that we would have to road everything back to the capital to get the bonus. I did a test using one of the earlier test saves and worldbuilder to road and pasture a cow, and road and pasture a gold to the river. When I checked in the city screen there was only gold available in the capital, and not cow, for some reason.

Well the servers are too busy atm, so I had to rewrite this whoe edit.

I noticed after answering Chris' question that there was a bit of a discussion about slavery. What I see is the best choice for whip use is getting a max overflow from a granary or a library into a settler build next turn. This wil build us a useful improvement and give extra hammers to the settler itself. However the granary whip is out unless we delay settler 1 or push pottery forward in the queue. Whipping the library is possible, but testing will need to bed done to work the best time to do it.
But the big question is: Is it worth it to whip away population this early? Remember at turn 60 A-M will be our whole economy essentially, and a whip will hurt that economy badly.
My opinion on the matter is that we should only whip if there is a spot we need and are in danger of losing it, e.g. an Iron/Cow/Wheat site that is close to our AI neighbour which he's gunning for. For that reason atm I'm in the probably no camp.

Final edit: I'm experiencing lots of time-outs on the site today. I don't know why it's not like something special is going on. I will play in an hour and if I can post the game today. If not it will go up at about 10:00a.m. BST tomorrow, when it should be slightly quieter.

If we revolt to slavery right away, it shifts all the city actions back one turn. I really think that will be our best plan, because it means we will spend the least amount of effort on the revolution. We will only sacrifice one turn build at low population in A-M, rather than sacrificing a turn of building in three cities at much higher population. It will also give us (effectively) one extra turn of worker actions, since the workers keep doing things during the revolution. That means population will be able to work the improved tiles one turn earlier. If we do it on turn 45, we gain 3 worker turns. I made a duplicate tab on the spreadsheet to show this.

We should start the scientist specialist as soon as we have population working undeveloped tiles, perhaps with the 5th worker - work cow/cow/gold/gold/scientist? or cow/cow/gold/gold/rice/scientist. The sooner the better imho. And then cow/cow/gold/gold/rice/scientist/scientist.

OK, server was busy, just saw the other posts.

The question in my mind is "will we use the whip before we revolt to a different civic?" If we are eventually going to use slavery, and cannot combine it in a 2-for-1 revolution, then we should revolt early to minimize the loss to our city production. If we revolt on turn 45, we gain 3 worker turns and lose 1 turn of cow/cow/gold in A-M. If we wait, we will lose a lot more production in 3+ cities.

I am not advocating for using the whip in turns 1-60, though perhaps it might make sense for finishing the library and overflow into settler 2 at about turn 63?

ChrisShaffer said:

OK, server was busy, just saw the other posts.

The question in my mind is "will we use the whip before we revolt to a different civic?" If we are eventually going to use slavery, and cannot combine it in a 2-for-1 revolution, then we should revolt early to minimize the loss to our city production. If we revolt on turn 45, we gain 3 worker turns and lose 1 turn of cow/cow/gold in A-M. If we wait, we will lose a lot more production in 3+ cities.

I am not advocating for using the whip in turns 1-60, though perhaps it might make sense for finishing the library and overflow into settler 2 at about turn 63?

Click to expand...

Yeah if we're going to revolt we're better of revolting early. I'll run some tests on a library whip after playing, though a 2 pop whip may be more effective.

Actually, I realized that revolting on turn 52 or 53 is better, as it has an identical effect on A-M production and doesn't delay the founding of Novgorod.

ChrisShaffer said:

Actually, I realized that revolting on turn 52 or 53 is better, as it has an identical effect on A-M production and doesn't delay the founding of Novgorod.

Click to expand...

Good point.

drlake said:

Good point.

Click to expand...

Ok will look at that. I'm playing now (downloaded the Civ V demo, my computer can just about run it, graphics laggy of DX11 version). I will go by the micro s-sheet.

All the discussion of revolution and slavery happens after your turnset.

Lads we've a crisitunity on our hands here. It's just gone t-20 and I've found:


Yes horses in the bfc. Now they won't affect the plan to turn 25, cows are still better IMO, but I think I'll pause the game for feedback. No other sightings of horses outside bfc.

I'm not sure that should change the plan for the next 20 or so turns. I think we're still better off bringing the gold and rice online (for happiness and health), but after that I think it'll be worth hooking them up before anything else in the capital bfc.

I sure am glad we didn't build a city on that space!

This is one heck of a capital! I agree that cows / cows / gold is better at start - but perhaps we'd like to hook the horses before we hook the second gold? Maybe we could hook the horses before the rice - we'll have to analyze how soon we need the health. I'd love to work horses instead of rice, and it has the huge advantage of being on a "clean" space that doesn't need fallout scrubbing.

Go ahead and play the next 5 turns so we can see the border pop. No change for now.

Ok I've played the set, and all the fun of fooling with horsies has made me forget to autolog after turn 20 (sorry), though there were no events except AIs getting more annoyed with us.

Ok the SGOTM log:


My incomplete autolog:


And finally my personal account:
Turn 3 Make sure off city governor and espionage to Gandhi.
Turn 5 De Gaulle willing to talk no peace
Turn 6 Gandhi willing to talk no peace
Turn 8

Agriculture>AH. Stalin, Mao and Churchy will talk no dice.
Turn 10 Roosy talk no peace
Turn 15 A-M Worker>Worker
Tried peace for Agri from Gandhi no dice
Worker to north cow
Turn 17 Worker starts scrub.
Turn 19

Agri>Wheel

Turn 20 "Horsey, horsey, won't you trot?" See my last post for pics.
Turn 21 Tried AG/AH peace with Gandhi no dice
Turn 22 Cows scrubbed (ready for husbanding). We're also temporarily top dogs in score.
Turn 23 Worker begins pasture.
Turn 25 Pop borders and sign off.
Some screenies to show you:
Land

Double Ivory in the north making city 2 there even more persuasive. Not even a single clean tile though.

Our Tech sit:


Tech Trading:


With friends like these:


Power and demographics:


I had a look at the progress screen. Fifth Elephant have gone too. Their power rose before ours so I'm guessing they went warrior first for defence/scouting/choking. The save is up.

How can you forget to autolog? It should be set to start automatically.

p.s. minor error in your text and screenshots, the second tech should be Animal Husbandry, not Agriculture again.

Overall Great work, good set!

Horses + second elephant are indeed nice news for our settle in place plan.

ChrisShaffer said:

How can you forget to autolog? It should be set to start automatically.

Click to expand...

Never set it up that way (How do you do it?), problem was I saved when I found the horses quit out just in case a discussion developed and went back in. Sorry about that.

Brian Shanahan said:

Never set it up that way (How do you do it?), problem was I saved when I found the horses quit out just in case a discussion developed and went back in. Sorry about that.

Click to expand...

Here are detailed step by step instructions for setting up the autolog.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9616095#post9616095

ChrisShaffer said:

Here are detailed step by step instructions for setting up the autolog.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9616095#post9616095

Click to expand...

Done.

As team leader it's been put to my attention that I've been remiss in my duties. To whit I forgot to post a roster:

Brian Shanahan >>gone to a deserved, but not eternal rest.
drlake >>UP for the fight
Trystero >> on deck, scrubbing it like a nice cabin-boy
ChrisShaffer
neilmeister
Earthling
ParadigmShifter

I have made a change, i.e. I've placed PS somewhat later in the list than previously mentioned. Hope everything is satisfactory.

OK, let's figure out that micro with the horse!

I'm at work now, but I'll DL the save tonight and let you all know when I have it.