Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

Dancing Hoskuld · Nov 22, 2010

For some reason I can't build papyrus grove even though I have weaving and desert in the city vicinity.

The dog kennels built by subdued wolves has gone. This causes problems with excess animals bleeding your treasury dry.

The hunter can build hunting lodge but gatherers can't. (previous game).

There are also a few problems with snail speed, my fav, far too many do nothing but press end of turns.

Both games I have played my starting city has a huge food deficit -13 in the first and -7 in this one. This means that any food supplied by hunting animals goes the next turn. I think the health system needs to be modified in some way. the starting health for terrain for RoM does not appear reasionable in prehistoric.

This huge deficit means that cities have not gotten big enough for me to test the Abandon City function. I think I will have to put a couple of Great Doctors in there to test

strategyonly · Nov 22, 2010

Dancing Hoskuld said:
For some reason I can't build papyrus grove even though I have weaving and desert in the city vicinity.

The dog kennels built by subdued wolves has gone. This causes problems with excess animals bleeding your treasury dry.

The hunter can build hunting lodge but gatherers can't. (previous game).

There are also a few problems with snail speed, my fav, far too many do nothing but press end of turns.

Both games I have played my starting city has a huge food deficit -13 in the first and -7 in this one. This means that any food supplied by hunting animals goes the next turn. I think the health system needs to be modified in some way. the starting health for terrain for RoM does not appear reasonable in prehistoric.

This huge deficit means that cities have not gotten big enough for me to test the Abandon City function. I think I will have to put a couple of Great Doctors in there to test

Just for the sake of saying so, put a Marsh in vicinity also, then see if you can build the papyrus grove.

No dog kennels? I thought they were in there?

Do you want gathers to build them, its ok with me?

Yeah, i know what you said already about the nothing to do stuff, still working on it.

OK then, idea's (anyone) for better health improvements.

EDIT: I just went though 5 other mods, and this one has alot better health stuff than any of them!

Hydromancerx · Nov 22, 2010

@strategyonly

I dont get the flashy part but it does crash(two turns later), i also see alot of red blobs that should not be there, did you place your MLF file in a different location?

Nope its just extracted to the Mod folder. No tweaks, changes or altercations. Like I said I wanted to test it with a fresh new version to see if it did it again.

- Have "Seafaring" require "Stargazing" AND "Naval Warfare" (Thats the way it is set-up?)

It is? Hmm. Maybe I just did not see it.

- "Hunting" should require "Trapping" AND "Cooking" AND "Cooperation". Otherwise "cooking" becomes a dead end tech. (Again thats the way it is setup)?

Now this one I know did not work because I was able to get Hunting BEFORE Cooking.

OK i figured out what the red blobs are in the water, for some reason the Art in good huts was gone, weird i never even messed with that file?

I have seen no red blobs. And i could see the goodie huts just fine.

btw if your going to remark here, you also dont need to PM same info, ok, thx, personal stuff (or stuff needed to hide from others for now) should be in the PM area, thx.

I was not sure since I edited my post and not posted a new post.

btw i just tried out the newer version i sent you of your folders and it works 5 times faster.

That's good however its too bad you did not do it AFTER I sent you my update. Now I have to merge your with my version, which is not taking even longer to do.

@Dancing Hoskuld

For some reason I can't build papyrus grove even though I have weaving and desert in the city vicinity.

You need a "Marsh/Bog" terrain in the city vicinity too. This makes it rarer to get than just a desert terrain.

The dog kennels built by subdued wolves has gone. This causes problems with excess animals bleeding your treasury dry.

yeah I have not be able to make one either.

There are also a few problems with snail speed, my fav, far too many do nothing but press end of turns.

This should be a little better once I post my new buildings. Then you actually have something to build. And it should get even better each time I add more stuff. I have been busy and things have been slow. But for right now things are a bit empty. But they won't be in the future.

Both games I have played my starting city has a huge food deficit -13 in the first and -7 in this one. This means that any food supplied by hunting animals goes the next turn. I think the health system needs to be modified in some way. the starting health for terrain for RoM does not appear reasionable in prehistoric.

This maybe be because of my Garbage mod. However it was ment to give you horrible health at the beginning of the game. Try to go for health buildings to get you out of the hole and don't make unhealthy building (ex Carrion, Poison Crafter's Hut, etc).

This huge deficit means that cities have not gotten big enough for me to test the Abandon City function.

This actually means things are on track since people were complaining about cities growing too fast.

strategyonly · Nov 22, 2010

I think i am going to have to make almost everything before Ancient (well as mush as possible that is, go though Megafauna Domes__ causes its to easy going from PreH to Ancient so fast with Archery/Pottery etc, thoughts?

HUH, i tried it out and there STILL are waaay to many PreH techs open

@Hydro: Let me know when you figure out that Firestorm (etc) pink dds, ok, thx. (see pic)

btw, i figured out how to get the Goody Huts back in the game, should be working now.

EDIT: OK i did this and it helps out alot, but still a few open techs:

Archery:

Spoiler :

Pottery:

Spoiler :

Hydromancerx · Nov 23, 2010

@strategyonly

@Hydro: Let me know when you figure out that Firestorm (etc) pink dds, ok, thx. (see pic)

I figured it out and here is an update with my new buildings and the FPK. Make sure you delete the old Hydro folder before installing this part.

Archery:
Pottery:

The problem I see is why would those be required for those techs? Now that I finished with my update let me think of a better way to get all the techs filled in.

EDIT:

Ok some more tweaks ...

- Move "March" promotion to "Prehistoric Dance" tech.
- Move "Heal" promotion to "Herbalism" tech.
- Take out "+1 Health to All Cities for "Flint Knapping" tech. It makes no sense for a style of stone shaping to do that. If anything they should get the whole "Workers Build Improvements 25% Fast" thing.

EDIT2:

*Attachment has been removed*

Mark064 · Nov 23, 2010

strategyonly said:
When playing with the Immigration settler, make sure you do over use them, it causes populations to stifle, then you will have a heck of a time to get it back to normal. See pic named -1.

Whoa so I decided to over use these immigration settlers like this suggests but I'm having problems cause my population is stifling! :confused:

help so confused I try to follow advice in hopes of not getting this but it still happens.

strategyonly said:
Around 160 civilizations (Updated) 18 Sep

I tried counting the leaderheads and I only count 118... so where are the other bunch? Has it been changed or something since then or am I missing somethigng? :confused:

strategyonly · Nov 23, 2010

Mark064 said:
Whoa so I decided to over use these immigration settlers like this suggests but I'm having problems cause my population is stifling! help so confused I try to follow advice in hopes of not getting this but it still happens.

I tried counting the leaderheads and I only count 118... so where are the other bunch? Has it been changed or something since then or am I missing somethigng?

Dang ahahaa a mistyping of a word: The word should be DONT not do, sorry :blush:

Yeah, if you look at the d/l, area of the first page, i put them as an extra d/l because they contain too much space., but thx for asking

and thx for letting me know i mistype

@Hydromancerx thx got them!

Also i got these errors, my bad, i forgot to tell you i deleted the other palisade.

Needs this:

Spoiler :

Hydromancerx · Nov 23, 2010

@strategyonly

Wait I thought we fixed the palisade problem? I thought I did that code already. What exactly do I need to do? Just replace that code right?

Anywho I got a lot farther this time. Note this save is with the stuff I sent you. However it still gave me the "flashy then crashy" bug.

Talin2009 · Nov 23, 2010

Horse Herd building - needs correct Civ pedia entry (regarding tech when it is actually available). Basically all Herd type of buildings need that - i manually figured that some of them could be built when according tech showing that resource became available.

Also, getting repeatable CTD, savegame attached (latest version of mod, clean install).

Also, totally agree with Dancing Hoskuld, there became WAY too much techs in prehistoric with some of them being empty and other giving basically nothing to do. For hundreds of turns (snail) you have nothing to do but press end of turn.

I tried playing this game with all custom civs on. I noticed additional civs have lots of UUs and UBs while original have only one each - needs to be brought in balance.

resmgr.log gives this if this is of any help:
RESMGR: Texture Modules/Custom Civilizations/Pirates/UU2_Brigantine/Brigantine.dds failed to load
RESMGR: Texture WarElephant_Carthage_gloss.dds failed to load
RESMGR: Texture torch.dds failed to load
RESMGR: Texture torch_gloss.dds failed to load
RESMGR: Texture Dwarve_256.dds failed to load

strategyonly · Nov 23, 2010

Talin2009 said:
Horse Herd building - needs correct Civ pedia entry (regarding tech when it is actually available). Basically all Herd type of buildings need that - i manually figured that some of them could be built when according tech showing that resource became available.

Also, getting repeatable CTD, savegame attached (latest version of mod, clean install).

Also, totally agree with Dancing Hoskuld, there became WAY too much techs in prehistoric with some of them being empty and other giving basically nothing to do. For hundreds of turns (snail) you have nothing to do but press end of turn.

I tried playing this game with all custom civs on. I noticed additional civs have lots of UUs and UBs while original have only one each - needs to be brought in balance.

resmgr.log gives this if this is of any help:
RESMGR: Texture Modules/Custom Civilizations/Pirates/UU2_Brigantine/Brigantine.dds failed to load
RESMGR: Texture WarElephant_Carthage_gloss.dds failed to load
RESMGR: Texture torch.dds failed to load
RESMGR: Texture torch_gloss.dds failed to load
RESMGR: Texture Dwarve_256.dds failed to load

Yeah, i haven't gone though the Custom Civs yet, but like the First post says in bold letters TEST version. Plus Hydro has made alot of changes (thx) and added quite a few new buildings for PreH techs, plus did you d/l the extra changes i have in first post also? :blush:

Thx for the in-put.

Hydromancerx · Nov 23, 2010

Also, totally agree with Dancing Hoskuld, there became WAY too much techs in prehistoric with some of them being empty and other giving basically nothing to do. For hundreds of turns (snail) you have nothing to do but press end of turn.

I think this can be solved by maybe 1/2 or 2/3 the cost of the prehistoric techs. Since my last update a lot has been filled in. The only ones I have to fill in now are techs like Sewing, Personal Adornment, etc. Which I do have plans for new buildings like a Seamstress's Hut, Dining Hall, Garland Wars [Wonder], etc. I will be posting more information about those soon. In addition I have been thinking about doing a dwelling themed mod based on an old post I once posted. I have to work out some balance issues but it would work out with a balance between new civics and buildings. In short I have a lot of cool stuff planned, so it may seem empty now but things should fill up when I am done.

Here is a preview of the projects I want to get to ...

- Prehistoric Buildings (Ex. Dance Hut, Chief's Hut, Mammoth Trainer, etc)
- Pseudo-Resources (Ex Papyrus Grove, Fur Seal Hunter, Date Palm Plantation, etc)
- Craft Mod (Ex Tablet Maker, Scroll Maker, Sawmill, etc)
- Residential Mod (Ex. Nomad Yurt, Huts, Hovels, Apartments, etc)
- Alternate Timeline Techs (Ex. Steampunk, Dieselpunk, Cyberpunk, Gearpunk, etc)
- Ordinance Mod (Ex. Tire Recycling, Legalized Gambling, Carpool, etc)
- Education Civics Mod (Ex. Oral Tradition, Apprenticeship, Compulsory Education, Mind Control, etc)
- Electricity Mod (Ex. Department of Energy, Tidal Farm, Wind Farm, etc)
- Space Mod (Ex. Argodome, Alpha Centari Imports, Astrology School, etc)
- Minor Civ Mod (Ex. Cherokee Embassy, Lakota Embassy, Manchurian Embassy, etc)
- Flammability Mod - Buildings Give +/- Flammability. Cities with more will have Fire events more often.
- Disease System (Not much planned yet)

But as you can see there is only one of me and I can only work on so much. So it will take awhile until they come to reality. However so far I have been happy with the mods I have designed/made like the Garbage, Water and Science Mods.

strategyonly · Nov 23, 2010

Hydromancerx said:
@strategyonly

Wait I thought we fixed the palisade problem? I thought I did that code already. What exactly do I need to do? Just replace that code right?

Anywho I got a lot farther this time. Note this save is with the stuff I sent you. However it still gave me the "flashy then crashy" bug.

Correct.

All those who are getting this flashy stuff, are you'll using Perfect World 2 by any chance? There is a known bug in that Mapscript (as far as i know).

strategyonly · Sep 3, 2010

ALT-TIMELINES:

strategyonly · Sep 3, 2010

NEW CHANGES for upcoming v33

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=506878

Older changes for v32

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=505833

FREEZES

Freeze comes off AFTER we release V_ _. So whenever that happens start putting in whatever you see fit. Until then just tweaks and fixes. I don't mind a reasonably liberal interpretation of 'fix' but the question you need to ask yourself fundamentally is 'am I introducing any stability risk by doing this?' So by way of examples:

Low risk vs reward (fine to push before V)_ _):

Small tweaks to values in existing XML (like Eldrin's civic balancing so long as it doesn't make huge and radical changes)
New units or buildings that are not themselves depended on by other stuff, and only use existing items as dependencies (so existing promotions etc.)
Python or C++ fixes to things that are currently causing definite severe issues (such as CTDs)

Medium (borderline acceptable):

Fixes to non-critical bugs (like the way the tech score doesn't show up maybe)
New cultural units/buildings that use existing mechanisms

High risk (don't do it until after V_ _ is released):

Major new asset category stuff (like new civics, or radical changes moving civics between categories)
Entirely new promotions
New building chains
Entirely new mechanisms in the DLL or Python
Substantial enhancement to existing mechanisms

Talin2009 · Nov 23, 2010

Another game (this time without additional civs) and CTD at same turn at 3250 BC.

Talin2009 · Nov 23, 2010

strategyonly said:
Correct.

All those who are getting this flashy stuff, are you'll using Perfect World 2 by any chance? There is a known bug in that Mapscript (as far as i know).

Yes. However i never encountered this in any other mods (i always use PW2)

strategyonly · Nov 23, 2010

Talin2009 said:
Yes. However i never encountered this in any other mods (i always use PW2)

No offense but if you haven't noticed by now, there is NO mod out there that even compares. :rolleyes:

Something this big, there are bound to be a few mistakes, HECK look at FfH2, i think this year alone they have like over 1000 mistakes(patches/corrections etc). And theirs is not even 1/3 the size.

Dancing Hoskuld · Nov 23, 2010

Talin2009 said:
Yes. However i never encountered this in any other mods (i always use PW2)

And once the map is built it should not matter anyway.

I have just played another game and my first city had so much health without and buildings or resources that it could grow to size 6. I suspect it was all the forest near by. I think that the only "real" solution to the population problem is not health but bringing back the Civ III idea of requiring a building to get above a certain size and have that building require a tech. Either that or remove the huge unhealthiness at the start and add it back at important or bottleneck techs.

I have been able to get Hunting without Cooking also. the Dog Kennel is back but requires "dog domestication" for some reason. I was able to build hunting lodge with an animal very early (turn 5-10). I was also able to build some of the herds at the wrong time. This delay in being able to build some of the animal buildings is adversely affecting the economy so I think I may need to make the subdue animals free for this mod.

As Talin2009 says, if being able to build the herd buildings is going to require a tech by default then I should make it require the tech explicitly so that it shows up in the pedia properly.

I am going to try a few things and then post them if they work.

Have seed camps provide the resource.
New improvement "Fruit Gatherers Camp" forest/jungle - Fruit, olives(?) lemons(?), bananas(?)
New improvement "Stone Collectors Camp" hills+ - Stone, Marble, Obsidian, Gems
New improvement "Scavenger Camp" open terrain - Animal resources - note on deer, fur and elephants it will upgrade to hunting camp otherwise to pasture.
New improvement "Wood collector camp" forest/jungle
Have the gatherer made camps mostly upgrade to their replacements eg seed camp to farm when the tech is discovered. 100% if there is a grain or potato there but 50% otherwise. Dissappears otherwise.
Some new buildings for Subdued Animals just for Prehistoric mod.
No maintenance cost for Subdued Animals again just for Prehistoric mod.
Link the SubdueAnimals buildings to a tech since they are currently being limited by techs

Talin2009 · Nov 23, 2010

strategyonly said:
No offense but if you haven't noticed by now, there is NO mod out there that even compares.

Something this big, there are bound to be a few mistakes, HECK look at FfH2, i think this year alone they have like over 1000 mistakes(patches/corrections etc). And theirs is not even 1/3 the size.

Totally agree. By other mods i meant different versions of AND basically. I played with Ffh2 a bit a year or so ago, it is fun for a while, but not my kind of civ i figured. Btw, nice loading speed compared to base AND. If major possible balance exploits would be found and eliminated it would be great mod.

As about mistakes - i believe every single version of RoM-AnD had them :mischief:

i can only wish there would be savegame compatible patches removing errors to be able to finish my games ...

p.s. about bugs i found - Deer/Cow/Pig Herd according to description supposed to be national unique building yet i could build it in every city.

Also some observations about prehistoric age - seems only viable option is beelining to tribalism (all sci buildings are in that path) then build 3-4 cities using tribes. Unless i start in real bad location, other civs who research useless techs start to fall behind me badly. Previous version of tech tree seemed more playable (less techs), as it stands now it is like 1000+ (out of 3000) turns in prehistoric age. It (age) shouldn't exceed other ages, some limits on empire size should be imposed (maybe with cities size as Dancing Hoskuld proposed), otherwise leading civ will be defined in Prehistoric Age, making following eras uninteresting (that what always bothered me in AnD - by end of medieval i was almost always winner civ making rest game just clicking turns on auto).

I remember old game (like 1.5 years ago), it was RoM 2.5 or something, where i was pressed badly on gigantic Pangea by Korea and Latvia and had to wage 3 big nuclear wars (on my first one i switched to regulated and MAD and built around 50 ICBMs, took me around 30 turns for that ( i saw Korea preparing to attack me with his x3 size of mine army), destroyed his main stacks of troops and turned half of his side of continent into radiating moon landscape - he managed to recover, i was allying different sides each time, i also was lucky they attacked each other, but still i was between them ... managed to win in late modern era with stealth bombers around. That was epic game ... i still wish i would be able to repeat it someday.

p.p.s. Dancing Hoskuld - about adding all those resources in prehistoric age - won't it diminish later techs when those resources become available and useable? I think large scale of city/empire/happiness etc. development should be kept in mind before making such drastical changes to balance ... just my 2 cents.
p.p.p.s Subdued animals actually affect economy, i agree. But i'm not sure if it's good to make them free - it would be possible to build size 30-40 armies of animals, imagine GC accompanying it with several promotions - then you go and wipe entire continent. Btw - deleting them in empire borders doesnt give any gold now (unlike units - which i build and delete for gold when i have nothing else to build)

Dancing Hoskuld · Nov 23, 2010

Talin2009 said:
p.p.s. Dancing Hoskuld - about adding all those resources in prehistoric age - won't it diminish later techs when those resources become available and useable? I think large scale of city/empire/happiness etc. development should be kept in mind before making such drastical changes to balance ... just my 2 cents.

Not quite what I meant. The various camps can only provide the resource if it is visible and usable anyway. I was not going to change that. Plus in RoM happiness does not normally come from the resource but the buildings that you build to use the resource. Health is another matter. But i was going to try it and see anyway before letting others play with it. I posted my ideas here so StrategyOnly and Hydro would know what I am working on so that they don't duplicate work.

Talin2009 said:
p.p.p.s Subdued animals actually affect economy, i agree. But i'm not sure if it's good to make them free - it would be possible to build size 30-40 armies of animals, imagine GC accompanying it with several promotions - then you go and wipe entire continent. Btw - deleting them in empire borders doesnt give any gold now (unlike units - which i build and delete for gold when i have nothing else to build)

Turns out that most subdued animals aren't costing maintenance, I just looked. I just have a surplus of those that do.

So I either need to make them all cost or make none of them cost. I have been thinking I should make them "defend only" to reduce the war aspect of them. Although I have seen somewhere that the Asian rhino was used as an attack unit. So maybe I do need to make a new animal unit "Shock Rino" for it to upgrade to once you have the correct techs.

Talin2009 said:
Btw - deleting them in empire borders doesn't give any gold now (unlike units - which i build and delete for gold when i have nothing else to build)

This is because they don't cost anything to build, ie cost=-1. I was thinking that I should let them be disbanded in a city for some food or hammers or gold, more than you get from killing them in the wild but not as much as a caravan for example.

@StrategyOnly I will most likely be including your graphics changes, numbers of units in a figures, in my next release. I have always used single unit graphics so don't see tese things.

Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

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