SGOTM 12 - ChokoMisfits

Ouch doesn't seem good ianw1610. Sure you haven't been contaminated by the Chinese after they read our discussions about war with Mao!!!!! :)

Seriously hope you get better soon.
 
@Sleep

Valid point about building wealth. Forgot that trick. My bad.
Workers are prioritizing fallout per my PPP. I think there is one outside our borders. Workshops are going up, along with several mills where we could.

I can switch the builds in the stragglers to produce workers to help those cities out, no problem.
 
Very sorry to hear of your malady, ianw1610. :( I hope you start feeling better very soon, and recover quickly.

For improvements, a big question is how long we intend to remain in State Property. If we plan to switch back out for Sushi and Mining Inc, then we do not want to be too dependent on improvements which will lose a big chunk of their bonuses later. Sushi will help make up the lost food so we can still work all the workshops and water wheels, but corporations take time, hammers, and money to spread. And spreading two corporations will make those costs even larger.

I have not had a chance to download the latest save; I will try to do so tonight or tomorrow and take a more detailed look. Just how bad is our science rate? :( What kind of baseline beakers are we getting from Rep specialists when our science slider is at 0%? We still have a long way to go in terms of beakers. Building wealth can help, but if we really want a hammer-driven economy then we should be pushing hard for Steam Power and levees, then Assembly Line and factories/power plants. Building wealth before the big multiplier buildings get put in place usually does not work all that well longer term, in my (limited) experience. But after the extra hammers are available, it can be very powerful.
 
Okay, on my next turn. Churchill DOW'ed Gandhi. I'm stopping there because that is a big development

We have a galleon with a settler near Copper Corn. Should head to the 2 clam spice location.

We lost a mine due to some spy. We may need more spies now

Happily, we are at 30% with positive flow now!!!

log
Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1525 AD to 1535 AD:

Turn 215, 1525 AD: Churchill has 260 gold available for trade.
Turn 215, 1525 AD: Roosevelt has 130 gold available for trade.
Turn 215, 1525 AD: Gandhi has 160 gold available for trade.
Turn 215, 1525 AD: Stalin the Despicable has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 215, 1525 AD: You are the worst enemy of De Gaulle, Mao Zedong, Stalin the Despicable.
Turn 215, 1525 AD: De Gaulle is the worst enemy of Churchill, Roosevelt, Gandhi.
Turn 215, 1525 AD: Churchill will trade Rifling
Turn 215, 1525 AD: Roosevelt will trade Rifling
Turn 215, 1525 AD: Gandhi will trade Rifling
Turn 215, 1525 AD: Will Trade Map: Churchill, Gandhi, Roosevelt, Stalin the Despicable
Turn 215, 1525 AD: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Stalin the Despicable
Turn 215, 1525 AD: Paris will grow to size 11 on the next turn.
Turn 215, 1525 AD: Marseilles will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 215, 1525 AD: CopperCorn will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 215, 1525 AD: PigSheep will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 215, 1525 AD: You have constructed a Bank in IvoryBeef. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 215, 1525 AD: You have trained a Settler in CornTwinGems. Work has now begun on a Bank.
Turn 215, 1525 AD: You have constructed a Observatory in SugarPig. Work has now begun on a Grocer.
Turn 215, 1525 AD: The secrets of Gunpowder were stolen by enemy infiltrators!

Turn 216, 1530 AD: Paris has grown to size 11.
Turn 216, 1530 AD: Marseilles has grown to size 8.
Turn 216, 1530 AD: CopperCorn has grown to size 4.
Turn 216, 1530 AD: PigSheep has grown to size 3.
Turn 216, 1530 AD: The borders of Capital are about to expand.
Turn 216, 1530 AD: Ivory Town will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 216, 1530 AD: The borders of Capital have expanded!
Turn 216, 1530 AD: Churchill has declared war on Gandhi!
Turn 216, 1530 AD: A Mine was destroyed by enemy infiltrators!
Turn 216, 1530 AD: Mao Zedong adopts Theocracy!

Turn 217, 1535 AD: Ivory Town has grown to size 8.
Turn 217, 1535 AD: Roosevelt is the worst enemy of De Gaulle.
Turn 217, 1535 AD: Gandhi is the worst enemy of Churchill.
 
Loaded up the save for a peek, have a few thoughts.

-We can rejig trades with Gandhi, Roosevelt and Churchill for an extra 4 gold per turn.
-Sell Education to Gandhi and Roosevelt for 250 gold and then hopefully trade for Rifling with Liberalism and Economics.
-There are cities building banks that will take 20+ turns, would wealth or research be better now, or at least work some more hammer high tiles.
 
Guys - I've contracted a very nasty flu variant - similar to Swine Flu, I believe...

... so please kindly skip me from all rotations until further notice.

Get well soon! We'll keep the game going in your absence.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
I agreed with haphazard1 that some building of Wealth may be a better short term means of temporarily improving our Technology rate.

What will help better is building Economic buildings (Banks, Markets, Grocers, eventually Wall Street in Capital) where they they provide maximum return and Courthouses in every City, except possibly Capital.

We need to avoid 1F2C tiles and similar tiles as a means of improving our Commerce slightly, because it kills both Hammers to build things and Growth to increase our Population and we probably want to do that. Of course higher Populations mean higher Maintenance costs.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Nice progress!

Looks like Sun Tzu Wu is UP!

JerichoHill was planning to play yet on Saturday.

@JerichoHill: We confirm that you still plan to play on Staturday.

It's more efficient for a player to finish their planned Turn Set.

Neither Gandhi or Roosevelt will provide Rifling for Education. We need to sell off Education for as much as we can, eventually and soon.

Churchill wants both Communism and Economics for Rifling, which is more than we should pay. I'd prefer delaying Riflemen builds and get a better deal for Rifling.

I hope Churchill and Gandhi exhaust each other in their War and I hope they stay at War and keep getting angrier at each other and leave everyone else alone.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
-We can rejig trades with Gandhi, Roosevelt and Churchill for an extra 4 gold per turn.
-Sell Education to Gandhi and Roosevelt for 250 gold and then hopefully trade for Rifling with Liberalism and Economics.
-There are cities building banks that will take 20+ turns, would wealth or research be better now, or at least work some more hammer high tiles.

Agree with trade ideas.

We need to work either high Hammer tiles, high Food tiles or both. Some Wealth building may help, but I'd use Cities that have nothing better to build. That will most often be Capital and its High Hammer will make a huge difference in our average Research rate.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Sun,

I had planned on the full turnset, but I was hopeful the DOW would occur early. Given that it was done very late, I opted to stop and allow us a chance to strategize. As I'll be prepping up for my last final exam of the semester this weekend, it would be best if you could continue.

My thoughts were that it was good that Gandhi went after Churchill
On the builds, yes, we have some 20 turn banks. I switch to some workers, but many of our cities have poor production which we'll have to grow out of.

Again, there is a ship at copper corn with a settler for 2clam spice
 
A few thoughts (still haven't been able to look at the save):

- Banks take a long time to build, but we need enough of them to unlock Wall Street so do not cancel them without checking how many we still need.

- I agree that a 1F2C tile is not a good idea right now, if that pop could be a specialist instead. With +3 beakers from Rep, any non-citizen specialist is likely worth while instead.

- Losing techs and improvements -- Mao did just get the Great Spy. I bet he infiltrated us and is stealing/sabotaging repeatedly. :( Not much we can do about it without spending a whole lot on EP or spies, neither of which we really want to do.

- Be careful about trying to increase cash trades with the AI -- you can not always get even the original amount of cash back once you cancel the current deal. I usually do not try unless there is a chance to get at least 2 gpt more on a single deal, and 3 gpt is better.

- Churchill vs Gandhi -- this is good news for us, I think. Neither is fighting us, they are not going for DeGaulle, and the fighting is very unlikely to threaten either with elimination. Our biggest problem will almost certainly be diplomatic as both ask us to join in. I do not think we want to risk joining the fighting; we have techs to research and a space ship to build. I wonder if Roosevelt will get pulled in? That might slow down all the major AIs.

Good luck with your final exams, JH, and we will catch you again next time around the rotation.
 
Not in SP so that will be a big boost to us.

Note Mao is planning to attack us probably but I think Roo (wheeoh as well though could be DG) will attack him as well so getting rifling would be a help there. Sell Edu for what we can get. Then use Sci Meth/Econ to get rifling would seem to be the best.
 
Acknowledgement:

Many of my Team Mates are responsible for pointing out many of the suggestions that follows; in many cases, I simply paraphrased them enough to intentionally disguise the true source of these brilliant ideas; only the true author can (with some difficulty) identify them now.

Primary Goals: Attempt to be first to Physics, Improve Research rate

Churchill, Gandhi and Roosevelt can also research Physics and any one of them could beat us. Since Churchill and Gandhi are at War, they will likely slow their Research in favor of a Military build-up. All three are running Mercantilism which can slow Research via elimination of Foreign trade routes. (Of course this hurts our Research as well, since we are also forced to have Domestic trade routes as well.)

With State Property, we should easily achieve 50% Research slider with a small deficit that can be financed through sale of older Technologies for moderate amounts of Wealth.

Plan to build Libraries in all Cities that can reasonably support at least one Scientist and also in Cities under some Culture pressure forming a cheap means of an extra +2 Culture per turn.

Plan to build Harbors in all Coastal Cities, since the +50% trade route boost will provide an extra 2 Commerce per turn with 2 Domestic trade routes now when Foreign trade is not possible, but the gain will go to an extra 6+ Commerce per turn with Free Market and an extra 8+ Commerce per turn with Free Market (world-wide) and Corporation (extra trade route). The extra Health a Harbor provides is just "free" bonus.

Plan to consider building Custom Houses in all Coastal Cities. Although there is no benefit at all for Domestic trade routes which is all we have now. The +100% Commerce for Foreign trade routes is a huge 12+ Commerce per turn bonus with Free Market (world-wide) and 16+ Commerce per turn bonus with Free Market and Corporation (extra trade route).

Plan to resume building Courthouses in all Cities that do not yet have them, since even in State Property a Courthouse reduces city maintenance from 8 Wpt down to 4 Wpt. Also, when we switch to Free Market for our Corporate expansions of Sid's Sushi and Mining, Inc., we will need each Courthouse's -50% city maintenance even more plus the bonus of -25% Corporation expenses.

Banks will be built in all Cities with a Base Commerce of least 12. When our trading partners get Economics, they will switch to Free Market and all our Domestic trade route will become Foreign trade routes, boosting our Cities with Base Commerce of 12 to 16-20, especially when we switch to Free market ourselves. Even at a Wealth slider of 50%, 12 Commerce per turn generates 6 Wealth per turn and a Bank will multiple that by +50%, providing 9 Wealth per turn. When World Economies switch to Free Market, such Cities will provide 20+ Commerce per turn. Still at 50% Wealth slider, that becomes 10 Base Wealth per turn and the Bank will add 5 Wealth per turn.
The Bank will multiply by +50% any Wealth source in the City like a Shrine or more likely Merchants, so Base Commerce isn't always the only consideration of whether a Bank should be built in a City or not.

Grocers will be built in any Inland City that needs more Health or in any City with a Base Commerce of at least 20. (Coastal Cities should build Harbors for Health.) Currently, a Grocer will provide +3 Health, since we have 3 of the 4 bonus Health Resources.

A small amount of building Wealth may be used in Cities where nothing else needs to be built.

Military production:

Will hold off until we acquire Rifling. Will build Riflemen in Heroic Epic City thereafter, when nothing else is more important to build.

Settler production:

A few Cities that have no critical Infrastructure pending will build Settlers for overseas sites (grabbing Corporation Resources and keeping Gandhi from expanding too much toward us) and in our Northwest (FishTwinFur).

Worker production:

Several Cities (2-4) that have no critical Infrastructure pending will build Worker for Fallout Cleanup and general BFC improvements as needed. At least 4 more Workers should be built for this turn set.

Citizen hiring Priorities/Conventions/Practices:

Maximum Scientists will be hired in all Cities, sometimes even at -1 to -2 Fpt negative growth when such negative growth does not impact the City's future productiveness.

When there is still more Population needing work than there are useful Tiles to work (better than 1F2C), they shall be employed as Citizen Specialists. With Representation, they will generate 1H3B per turn each. When a Courthouse is present and hammers are not particularly helpful, said Citizen shall be employed as a Spy Specialist, generating 4B4E per turn. (Since such Citizens directly produce Beakers they will contribute far more to our race to Physics than in any other way.)

Cities that need growth to increase their Population to work all useful Tiles and fill all useful Specialist positions will in general work enough Food tiles to generate a Growth rate that matches the usefulness of the unworked Tiles.

Technology trading:

Plan to sell Education to Gandhi and Roosevelt for their Wealth this turn.

Will try to get Rifling plus some Wealth for Economics and Liberalism from Roosevelt or Gandhi (whoever provides the better deal) next turn.

Resource trading:

Will renegotiate any Resource trade for Wealth per turn, when the potential gain is at least +2 Wealth per turn.

Will enter into new Resource trades for Wealth when the opportunity arises.

Civics changes:

We will switch to State Property in the current turn.

Other Civics changes might be useful, but they would cause a second turn of Anarchy and all the other Civics we have are very useful. Even Organized Religion is very useful in building Infrastructure, despite its 15 Wealth per turn cost over Free Religion for example.

Lack of more Detailed Plans:

I was planning to detail exactly what I planned to do in each City, but that now seems to be not that beneficial. Its hard to plan out what will be done and where, especially just prior to a major Civics change to State Property.

Tile Improvement Priorities:

1) Tiles that a City is reasonably able to work now will be improved first.

2) Tiles that a City will soon be able to work after it grows a bit will be improved next.

3) Tiles that a City will never reasonably ever be able to work will not be improved.

4) All Tiles shall have Fallout Cleared, but shall not be otherwise improved; this simply needs to be done before the end of the Game, thus it is lowest priority right now.

Tile Improvement Selection Criteria:

1) Tile Improve Selection is overridden by what the City currently or soon will need next.

2) In general, preference will be made for Tile Improvements with synergy with State Property: Thus maximum no. of Waterwheels and Workshops shall be made by Workers. Even after a switch to Free Market, these improvements will still be viable with the spread of Sid's Sushi in the City.

3) In general, Cottages will be avoided, unless they are in a City with both many Research and Wealth multiplying Buildings.

Please let me know of any critical through petty, academic omissions.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
All seems good Sun Tzu Wu.

Good idea with the citizen specs when not working improved tiles and no spec places available to use.

If we are going to run sushi think we should also aim to settle the 2 fish sites asap. Think Churchill has a settler on his galleon down near our South so can expect another oif his cities near us soon and we want to grab the better sites before the AI.

Def need a courthouse in capital for corporations. Played one of the GOTM's with Willem and Sushi. Cost until I built the courthouse was enormous. Took me a long time to realise esp with the amount of fish available. :)

Tech after Physics I would suggest chemistry. Leads to bio and extra hammer for workshops. Hopefully we will be able to trade for it though.

Economics I would give that away pretty cheaply then see if we can get people to convert to FM although they are more likely to change to SP if we give away communism as well.

Any boost to the AI now might get us an extra tech or 2 down the line. Just have to make sure we have things to trade. :)
 
Turnset plan looks good to me, Sun Tzu Wu.

One note on Customs Houses -- they are quite expensive in terms of hammers, and only benefit foreign trade routes. So I would make them a very low priority for now. We can hope the AIs will start switching to Free Markets once they have Economics, but this is not guaranteed. Roosevelt favors Mercantilism (although we saw him switch out of it in the first Russia-nukes-the-world SGOTM). And other AIs may want to keep the specialists for various reasons.

Anyway, I just think we can probably find better uses for our hammers than Customs Houses in almost all cases.

Good luck!
 
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