Muslims and Jews denounce Germany's circumcision ban

salty mud · Jul 12, 2012

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18807040

European Jewish and Muslim groups have joined forces to defend circumcision for young boys on religious grounds after a German regional court ruled it amounted to bodily harm.

"We consider this to be an affront (to) our basic religious and human rights," it said.

"Circumcision is an ancient ritual that is fundamental to our individual faiths and we protest in the strongest possible terms against this court ruling.

I wonder if they consider the one's who they are mutilating human rights. I understand this is a sensitive issue, but there comes a time when practices like this must cease.

This comes a few days after a German feminist group also denounced the decision, saying it puts male circumcision on par with female circumcision. Female circumcision should be illegal to them, but doing it to males is perfectly fine. :rolleyes:

Snorrius · Jul 12, 2012

Female circumcision should be illegal to them, but doing it to males is perfectly fine.

Well, feminism always was misandrist movement rooted in hartred to men, being failure as woman and inferiority complex.

Arwon · Jul 12, 2012

Neither of you know much about female circumcision, do you?

salty mud · Jul 12, 2012

The clitoris and labia is removed. What's your point?

Arwon · Jul 12, 2012

Um.

You realise male circumcision doesn't lop off the entire glans, yes? And that male circumcision is not a tool of control of male sexuality?

Grisu · Jul 12, 2012

you don't honestly believe that male and female circumcision are even remotely similar, do you?

female 'circumsision' should (and thankfully is in most places) be illegal, while nobody really calls for male circumcision to be illegal.

anandus · Jul 12, 2012

It's both mutilation nonetheless.

I find it an abominable practice, mutilating babies (male or female) in the guise of 'freedom of religion'.

Snorrius · Jul 12, 2012

Arwon said:
Um.

You realise male circumcision doesn't lop off the entire glans, yes? And that male circumcision is not a tool of control of male sexuality?

First, percieved by some less radicalness of male circumcision still is not argument for allowing it.
Second, male circumcision does alter male sexuality (it changes what one feels).
Third, female c-n is not as much way to control sexuality but much more important as a tool of social control (which is similar to male circumcision).

But really, do not you think that this feminist stance is a misandrinist bigotry?

GoodSarmatian · Jul 12, 2012

Well, female circumsision, barbaric as it is is also 'an ancient ritual'. That's not really a justification.

Grisu · Jul 12, 2012

Snorrius said:
But really, do not you think that this feminist stance is a misandrinist bigotry?

not in the slightest, for men being cut doensn't change their capability to enjoy sex in any meaningful way, whereas for women it makes sexual intercourse painful and pretty much prevents them from ever enjoying sex.

Snorrius · Jul 12, 2012

Grisu said:
you don't honestly believe that male and female circumcision are even remotely similar, do you?
female 'circumsision' should (and thankfully is in most places) be illegal, while nobody really calls for male circumcision to be illegal.

Give it a couple of thought, friend. In certain parts of Africa nobody calls for making female circumcision illegal. As for "nobody really calls for male circumcision to be illegal" - well in USA where it is a part of cultural norm - maybe. In Europe where religious and quasireligious cultural norms have weakened a lot, this quite harmful mutilating ritual is also starting to go out of fashion.

Grisu · Jul 12, 2012

Snorrius said:
Give it a couple of thought, friend. In certain parts of Africa nobody calls for making female circumcision illegal. As for "nobody really calls for male circumcision to be illegal" - well in USA where it is a part of cultural norm - maybe. In Europe where religious and quasireligious cultural norms have weakened a lot, this quite harmful mutilating ritual is also starting to go out of fashion.

well, I admit, I was thing of the West (or the industrialized nations or something) when mentioning the "nobody really calls etc". But still "starting to go out of fashion" isn't even close to making it illegal.

Snorrius · Jul 12, 2012

Grisu said:
not in the slightest, for men being cut doensn't change their capability to enjoy sex in any meaningful way, whereas for women it makes sexual intercourse painful and pretty much prevents them from ever enjoying sex.

It does change ability to enjoy sex. And I would like to note that less radicalness of this ridiculous ritual does not provide enough reason to keep it. It is still mutilation and there are no good reasons to keep it.

NedimNapoleon · Jul 12, 2012

I think that most people who are circumcised dont have a problem with it, but most people who aren't do have a problem with it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Grisu · Jul 12, 2012

Snorrius said:
It does change ability to enjoy sex. And I would like to note that less radicalness of this ridiculous ritual does not provide enough reason to keep it. It is still mutilation and there are no good reasons to keep it.

but it is not established in what direction it changes that ability....besides, the difference is so minuscule that it can pretty much be ignored.

ParkCungHee · Jul 12, 2012

I think that most people who are circumcised dont have a problem with it, but most people who aren't do have a problem with it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That seems to be the general consensus of the first 7,000 threads, yes.

Quackers · Jul 12, 2012

This comes a few days after a German feminist group also denounced the decision, saying it puts male circumcision on par with female circumcision. Female circumcision should be illegal to them, but doing it to males is perfectly fine.

They are right FGM is worse then MGM - but they are denouncing it just because it makes them equal in legal terms, which is obviously unacceptable to these woman. This is why people dislike feminists.

Snorrius · Jul 12, 2012

ParkCungHee said:
That seems to be the general consensus of the first 7,000 threads, yes.

Most of circumcized females actually also have no problems with it and on the contrary support it because it is a part of their culture.

Grisu · Jul 12, 2012

Snorrius said:
Most of circumcized females actually also have no problems with it.

I very much doubt that claim.

Snorrius · Jul 12, 2012

Grisu said:
well, I admit, I was thing of the West (or the industrialized nations or something) when mentioning the "nobody really calls etc". But still "starting to go out of fashion" isn't even close to making it illegal.

Well, in certain parts of the world female circumcision is also quite far from being illegal. Male mutilation have strong lobbyist: obsolete religions, certain harmful movements like feminists etc. but it is good the things are changing.

Muslims and Jews denounce Germany's circumcision ban

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