Global War On Christ Continues

Mr. Blonde said:
Good to hear that Hitler was from Germany :D

(He was Austrian. In this reference I have nothing against confusing Germany and Austria, but should that happen with for instance Mozart I will send my loyal death squads after your ass ;) )
Hmm... are those German or Austrian death squads?
 
bigfatron said:
I think your statement implicitly accepts that religion is a powerful sociological tool that allows people to take, hold and misuse power, which is my point....
Of course it is!

And airplanes are powerful tools to demolish skyscrapers...
 
It doesn't matter whether or not he exists to me, he's just a protester that the Romans nailed to a cross, like the thousands of others who suffered the same fate. Anyone that says they're the child of god should be nailed to a cross.
 
Equal-opportunity messiah selection, eh? How can you know if someone really is the Son of God without sticking them up on a cross?
 
Maybe they could start by healing all diseases in the world with the snap of their fingers. Do that and I'll be happy to worship them.
 
Btw, I didn't realize there was a war on christ. The term 'war' seems to be popular in America.. war on drugs, war on terror, war on christ, what's next, war on applejuice?
 
But applejuice deserves to be destroyed! The more applejuice you make, the less of Mom's Apple Pie (TM) you can make!

[/soapbox]

(Incidentally, Bigfatron, I got a bit confused at your last post, because the way that I read "=>" seems to be the opposite of what you were saying in the text, so I got very confused :crazyeye: )
 
ironduck said:
Btw, I didn't realize there was a war on christ. The term 'war' seems to be popular in America.. war on drugs, war on terror, war on christ, what's next, war on applejuice?
War, huh? What is it good for? Wasting taxpayer's money and the credibility of the government! Say it again y'all!
 
RoboPig said:
This is too far considering that there are many historical sources that Jesus did in fact exist. this should be dismissed right now

Actually, there are none. There are only records which corroborate certain other figures and events in the New Testament - particularly, the existance of a governor named Pilate.

Not that the case shouldn't be laughed out of court, though.
 
Pikachu said:
Of course it is!

And airplanes are powerful tools to demolish skyscrapers...

Now you are being silly - airplanes are not habitually used to demolish skyscrapers.

But just as a gun is a tool regularly used for killing, and arguably designed for that purpose, organised religion (and other belief systems) are tools regularly used for control of people and societies

You can argue whether specific religions and belief systems are deliberately designed to allow certain people to take and hold power on behalf of a group or concept - I'll concede that this is worth debating. But debating whether they are regularly used that way is, frankly, a pointless waste of time.
 
Sophie 378 said:
But applejuice deserves to be destroyed! The more applejuice you make, the less of Mom's Apple Pie (TM) you can make!

[/soapbox]

(Incidentally, Bigfatron, I got a bit confused at your last post, because the way that I read "=>" seems to be the opposite of what you were saying in the text, so I got very confused :crazyeye: )

Hi Sophie
<scuttles off to check signs are right way around in message.....yup, looks OK....... returns)>
What I'm trying to say is that if you are a communist and follow communist 'teachings' then you must perforce be an atheist. One implies the other. However, there is no logic that an atheist must be a communist, and therefore it is irrational to ask atheists to bear any responsibility for actions taken by communists, good or bad.

Similarly, a proper Christian will always be charitable, but you can't assume, just from knowing someone is charitable, that they are also a Christian. Thus the charitable cannot logically be held responsible for the actions of the churches, just on accocount of their being charitable.

In short, Erik's little commentary was fallacious

Hopefully that makes sense....
BFR
 
nonconformist said:
http://www.humanismbyjoe.com/hitler.htm

Take with a pinch of salt, if you wish, but apart from being very volatile, Hitler was born a Catholic, raised a Catholic, and though he wasn't a Catholic as an adult, retained Catholic tendancies.
(Never mind Martin Luther's impression on Hitler).
Was Hitler a Christian?
The claim is sometimes made that Hitler was a Christian - a Roman Catholic until the day he died. In fact, Hitler rejected Christianity.

The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, _Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, Faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:

There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)
This is what Hitler said about Christianity. It does not sound like the words of a Christian by his words.
 
classical_hero and Zany must be identical twins, they always link to religious sites for everything :)
 
ironduck said:
classical_hero and Zany must be identical twins, they always link to religious sites for everything :)
You certainly have been doing your homework. I mean, that is a great comeback to an arguement that shows that Hitler wasn't a Christian. Here is some more evidence of the fact that Nazi's were trying to go after Christian after they had done with the Jews.End Christianity: A Nazi Plan Revealed
This was first reported in by the Philadelphia Inquirer.
The fragile, typewritten documents from the 1940s lay out the Nazi plan in grim detail:

Take over the churches from within, using party sympathizers. Discredit, jail or kill Christian leaders. And re-indoctrinate the congregants. Give them a new faith - in Germany's Third Reich.

More than a half-century ago, confidential U.S. government reports on the Nazi plans were prepared for the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg and will be available online for free starting tomorrow - some of them for the first time.

These rare documents - in their original form, some with handwritten scrawls across them - are part of an online legal journal published by students of the Rutgers University School of Law at Camden.

"When people think about the Holocaust, they think about the crimes against Jews, but here's a different perspective," said Julie Seltzer Mandel, a third-year law student who is editor of the Nuremberg Project for the Rutgers Journal of Law and Religion.

"A lot of people will say, 'I didn't realize that they were trying to convert Christians to a Nazi philosophy.' . . . They wanted to eliminate the Jews altogether, but they were also looking to eliminate Christianity."

Mandel said the journal would post new Nuremberg documents about every six months, along with commentary from scholars across the world, on its Web site at www.lawandreligion.com.

The material is part of the archives of Gen. William J. Donovan, who served as special assistant to the U.S. chief of counsel during the International Military Tribunal after World War II. The trials were convened to hold accountable those responsible for war crimes.

The first installment - a 120-page report titled "The Nazi Master Plan: The Persecution of the Christian Churches" - was prepared by the Office of Strategic Services, a forerunner of the CIA.

"Important leaders of the National Socialist party would have liked to meet this situation [church influence] by complete extirpation of Christianity and the substitution of a purely racial religion," said an OSS report in July 1945. "The best evidence now available as to the existence of an anti-Church plan is to be found in the systematic nature of the persecution itself.

"Different steps in that persecution, such as the campaign for the suppression of denominational and youth organizations, the campaign against denominational schools, the defamation campaign against the clergy, started on the same day in the whole area of the Reich . . . and were supported by the entire regimented press, by Nazi Party meetings, by traveling party speakers."

A second online journal posting - to be added in about six months - will spotlight a secret OSS document, "Miscellaneous Memoranda on War Criminals," about the efforts of various countries to bring Nazis to justice.

A third installment - to be included in the journal in a year - focuses on translated, confidential Nazi documents. A message sent during the Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass") pogrom of November 1938 is titled "Measures To Be Taken Against Jews Tonight." Authorities were given specific instructions: "Jewish shops and homes may be destroyed, but not looted. . . . Foreigners, even if Jewish, will not be molested."

Mandel, whose 80-year-old grandmother is a survivor of the Auschwitz concentration camp, said that allowing the public access to such documentation is "phenomenal."

"Some of the papers will answer questions that scholars have been asking for years," said Mandel, 29, of Berlin Borough, Camden County. "What did we know? When did we know it?"

The documents are part of the collection of the Cornell University School of Law library, which has about 150 bound volumes of Nuremberg trial transcripts and materials. They are housed at the school and are being cataloged.

"Gen. Donovan kept extensive, detailed records of Nazi atrocities," said Mandel, who taught at Triton High School in Runnemede and at Shawnee High School in Medford, where she led a course on "Literature of the Holocaust."

She and other journal editors - Daniel Bahk, Christopher Elliott, Ross Enders and Jessica Platt - examined hundreds of documents at Cornell before choosing those to be posted on the journal site. "The project could not be published in a conventional journal without losing the international accessibility that it demands," said Rayman Solomon, dean of the School of Law. "This student initiative will make a significant contribution to legal history scholarship while being of great interest and importance to the general public, especially at this time in our history."

Greg Baxter, marketing editor of the journal and a third-year Rutgers law student, said the online project was "definitely pertinent in light of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack" and Bush administration plans to hold a military tribunal to try the accused.

"The Nuremberg trials provide a framework for today's trials," said Baxter, 24, of Winslow, Camden County.
It is clear that Nazism had absolutely nothing to do with Christianity, except for the desire to remove Christianity. It should be obvious that Hitler wasn't a Christian because he was trying to destroy Christianity.
 
bigfatron said:
Now you are being silly - airplanes are not habitually used to demolish skyscrapers.

But just as a gun is a tool regularly used for killing, and arguably designed for that purpose, organised religion (and other belief systems) are tools regularly used for control of people and societies
I agree that guns are a better *******. Guns are sometimes used for bad things but the vast majority of the guns in the world are used for good things, like protecting people or to entertain people.

Removing guns or religion will not remove killing, it will just make people find other ways to kill.
 
classical_hero said:
You certainly have been doing your homework. I mean, that is a great comeback to an arguement that shows that Hitler wasn't a Christian. Here is some more evidence of the fact that Nazi's were trying to go after Christian after they had done with the Jews.End Christianity: A Nazi Plan Revealed

What the heck are you talking about? When did I ever say that Hitler was a christian? I'm not involved in your little argument at all, I merely noted that you as usual linked to a religious site. It seems that's where you get all your knowledge from, which does explain a thing or two. To make my point you just linked to yet another religious site :lol:
 
Pikachu said:
Removing guns or religion will not remove killing, it will just make people find other ways to kill.

Actually removing guns will decrease killing.
 
ironduck said:
What the heck are you talking about? When did I ever say that Hitler was a christian? I'm not involved in your little argument at all, I merely noted that you as usual linked to a religious site. It seems that's where you get all your knowledge from, which does explain a thing or two. To make my point you just linked to yet another religious site :lol:
I used a Religious link to prove my point about Hitler. Also it should not be strange to consider that me being religious would go to such sites.
 
ironduck said:
Actually removing guns will decrease killing.
So before guns were invented there was a lot less killing going on? Come on, people were killing each other like crazy back then too!
 
classical_hero said:
I used a Religious link to prove my point about Hitler. Also it should not be strange to consider that me being religious would go to such sites.

I just noted that you always seem to link to religious sites, it seems that you get most of your information from religious sources. One doesn't need to do that just because one is religious. It so happens that the vast majority of information in this world is not from religious sources.
 
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