WW1-WW2 Naval Vessels Discussion

tom2050 said:

Thanks for info...

for the wake is a few pixels at most. bubbles either won't be seen that well, or they would have to be big bubbles (so they are at least 1x1 pixel). Making bubbles is probably not alot of work (a particle spray, gravity, and a deflector) but I don't know if the end result would be better than a simple wake. The wake is more of a generalization of the torpedo for gameplay than keeping true to how well torpedo could actually be seen. Otherwise, the animation would look mostly blank, like the default.

@general-jcl: I appreciate the offer. It looks like some of those are units already. For sailing ships, thats another monster I'll tackle at a later time (I haven't done any sailing ships ever), which for most ships, involves either making sails, and probably rigging/skinning them so they work with wind semi-naturally. For now I'll probably stick with WW1, WW2 ships and subs, so if you want to PM me, and I can add any ships you have to the to-do list.

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Yes, Tom do stay on STEEL ships until they have as much complete upgrades as possible.
So far you have filled a void between those early steel/steam ships and WWI/II ships with enough ships to really have mods like AOI and similar to exploit the various ships that finally formed into WW2 more classic units.
(The WW2 was also filled with those great Japanese that was missing since Wyrmshadow filled up everyone else)

Now we have a variaty of Armoured cruisers, protected cruisers, pre-dreadnoughts and such to have a fun upgrade line.

Be sure that their will always be that "another" unit to build to make everything closer to 100%.
(One Japanese early protected or Armoured cruisers wouldn´t be wrong)


As you said yourself it will be to look for those "missing links" that should have top priority.
The Japanase Navy was one of those. Pre-Dreadnoughts surely another.

@general-jcl: I appreciate the offer.

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Links of file sent to you by e-mail

Thanks General! I'll have a look a bit later.

Okay, for Japanese Light Cruisers, in the case of the Kuma Class: it is near identical to the Nagara-class, so it can double as both. It is also very close to the Tenryū class cruiser (shorter, and just slightly different in small ways), so I will probably modify it and make the tenryu next since it won't take long.

As a note, I usually try to compare various ships of classes for similarities. If a ship is very close (sometimes ones that preceded or succeeded by the ship are close in layout is what I'm referring to), then in those cases it is easy to make minor modifications to release another class of ship. If anyone sees another class that is relatively close to one I released, let me know so I can see about modifying and making it also.

I keep all my base files for each ship, so I can always go back if need be.

tom2050 said:

Thanks for info...

for the wake is a few pixels at most. bubbles either won't be seen that well, or they would have to be big bubbles (so they are at least 1x1 pixel). Making bubbles is probably not alot of work (a particle spray, gravity, and a deflector) but I don't know if the end result would be better than a simple wake. The wake is more of a generalization of the torpedo for gameplay than keeping true to how well torpedo could actually be seen. Otherwise, the animation would look mostly blank, like the default. EDIT: I could eventually try something of the sort, to see if the result is better.

@general-jcl: I appreciate the offer. It looks like some of those are units already. For sailing ships, thats another monster I'll tackle at a later time (I haven't done any sailing ships ever), which for most ships, involves either making sails, and probably rigging/skinning them so they work with wind semi-naturally. For now I'll probably stick with WW1, WW2 ships and subs, so if you want to PM me, and I can add any ships you have to the to-do list.

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Japanese torpedoes used a pure oxygen-fuel mix that left them virtually wakeless. The principal source of bubbles in a torpedoes wake is the nitrogen in the compressed air mixture. The pure oxygen got around that problem.

tom2050 said:

Thanks General! I'll have a look a bit later.

Okay, for Japanese Light Cruisers, in the case of the Kuma Class: it is near identical to the Nagara-class, so it can double as both. It is also very close to the Tenryū class cruiser (shorter, and just slightly different in small ways), so I will probably modify it and make the tenryu next since it won't take long.

As a note, I usually try to compare various ships of classes for similarities. If a ship is very close (sometimes ones that preceded or succeeded by the ship are close in layout is what I'm referring to), then in those cases it is easy to make minor modifications to release another class of ship. If anyone sees another class that is relatively close to one I released, let me know so I can see about modifying and making it also.

I keep all my base files for each ship, so I can always go back if need be.

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Today I was thinking that it would probably be possible to use one model for several classes of ships, such as you talk about here. At the Civ scales, you don't see a lot of detail. Ships that look roughly the same can use the same model and have items like funnels changed, main guns swapped with other types of mounts, a bit of superstructure added or removed and other small changes. The color scheme can also be changed to use the same model for classes from different countries. This could be especially time saving for types like destroyers and submarines since these tend to look quite a bit alike in most navies.

Edit:

Since you are doing Japanese cruisers, I thought I would work up a list of the classes that could use the same models. To represent these classes, you would only need a few models since the general appearance of these ships was very similar.

Heavy cruisers:

Furutaka, Aoba, Myoko, Atago, Mogami classes could all use the same model with minor changes to funnels, aft superstructure, armament placing and masts.

The Tone class would probably need their own model.

Light cruisers:

The Chikuma (1910) class would need it's own model, but this class is similar to to some British and German WW1 light cruisers.

Tenryu, Kuma, Nagara, and Naka classes could use the same model with minor changes to superstructure and armament arrangement.

Yubari would need its own model.

The Katori class needs its own model. So would each of the Agano and Oyodo classes and also the Ioshima class (small cruisers captured from China before WW2).

BTW the Kitakami and Oi of the Kuma class light cruisers were modified in an interesting way in 1941:





Given 5 quad 24" torpedo tube mounts on each side. That's 40 torpedoes, or the equivalent battery of 5 destroyers.

NORMANDIE battleships


Normandie; Builder: A C de la Loire et Penhoët, St-Nazaire ; Launched: 19/10/1914; BU 1924/25, No by Wyrmshadow

Béarn; Builder: F C de la Méditerranée, La Seyne; Launched: 15/4/1920; completed as aircraft carrier from 8/1923, Yes by Wyrmshadow
Laid down as battleship of Normandie class.



BRETAGNE battleships Class; Provence 1916, No by Wyrmshadow
Built under the 1912 program, first and unique French super-dreadnought class.
http://www.navypedia.org/ships/france/fr_bb_bretagne.htm


COURBET battleships Class 1913-1914, No by Wyrmshadow
http://www.navypedia.org/ships/france/fr_bb_courbet.htm


Wotan49
here

Tom,

Here is a better drawing of the Myoko Class if you do decide to modify a model for it. I put it here because I did not want to clutter up the unit thread.

when the time is right!
I lack even the most numerous cruisers of the United States
CLEVELAND (CL-55) light cruisers class from 1941 to 1946,
http://www.navypedia.org/ships/usa/us_cr_cleveland.htm

Cleveland 1943

USS Columbia (CL-56)


Wotan49
here

@Wotan: You are right. The Provence BB Wyrmshadow did I think is different from the picture you showed of Bretagne class. It is the French battleship Richelieu (I believe) now that I think about it. I mis-spoke in the other thread.

Of course, I can't find French models anywhere, except for the very very very very few I have; so I can't really help out much there with the French.

I'll do US Warships when I get around to them.

@Delta: pic isn't coming up.

@scratchthepitch: thanks for info. I can likely do many of those. You are right, the modified Kitakami and Oi with all those torp tubes would be a blast to make!

For torpedos, I'll probably just leave a water trail behind the torp like I have been; solely for gameplay purposes so the player can actually see that a torpedo was fired; otherwise making bubbles, etc or having nothing be seen doesn't really make any sense to me for game purposes.

Hmm that is odd cause it comes up for me anyone else having the same trouble?

Okay, it comes up now. Must have been browser acting up.

Ok good. I hope it helps!

I support anything named after my hometown.

Steph can give help?
for models of the French ships!



Wotan49
here

Here's the site where I found the plans for the DeGrasse cruiser I did. Plenty of French warship plans here:

http://www.servicehistorique.sga.de...nts/planbato/planbato/listebato/listebato.php

I as well have lots of plans for french warships.

tom2050 said:

@scratchthepitch: thanks for info. I can likely do many of those. You are right, the modified Kitakami and Oi with all those torp tubes would be a blast to make!

For torpedos, I'll probably just leave a water trail behind the torp like I have been; solely for gameplay purposes so the player can actually see that a torpedo was fired; otherwise making bubbles, etc or having nothing be seen doesn't really make any sense to me for game purposes.

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I'll see if I can work up some other class lists of similar looking ships. Since I started with the Japanese, I'll do them first. I didn't really mean that individual bubbles would be shown for the fired torpedoes, just that it would look like a wake that quickly peters out before the wake reaches the edge of the tile. But I think you are right, without an obvious torpedo wake leaving the ship and heading off the tile, it would be difficult to see what was going on in the graphic and a regular wake makes more sense for the game.

vingrjoe said:

Here's the site where I found the plans for the DeGrasse cruiser I did. Plenty of French warship plans here:

http://www.servicehistorique.sga.de...nts/planbato/planbato/listebato/listebato.php

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Yes indeed french warships from WWI are needed, if one should not use the many present great units from Tom and Wyrmshadow.
Plenty to go around, so this filling up the French Navy WWI could be like icing on the cake.

I probably don't have the time to make a great looking ship from complete scratch. I prefer the mass production aspect of it (for Civ 3); which is "pump em out". I'll stick to working with available models. So probably no icing on the cake. Probably no icing ever, french ship models seem to be in short supply or non-existent even if someone wanted to pay.

Civinator said:

The most needed units of your list in my eyes are:
11. Gangut class battleship; done by Wyrmshadow, but here an improvement wouldn´t be wrong

Most other ships of your list were done by Wyrmshadow.

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Sorry to ask, but under what "name" did Wyrmshadow hide this early russian.
Was it the early version or the WW2 version ?

GeneralMatt made this in Civ4, called Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya