Very interesting list and reasoning, Stonecutter. I think I agree with almost everything. Maybe Indonesia's chances are higher (they have a strong support, they fit the theme and new mechanisms, rich history, culture and a lot of possibilities).
Brave New World's 9 new Civs
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turingmachine
Emperor
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Yeah, but to be fair, almost everyone has conquered Egypt at some point or another.
Hah! You're joking right? Tell me you're joking regarding the impact comment.
Perhaps they'll modify some of the existing Civs to make some of the new 9 make more sense. They have a number in game right now that seem to encompass another Civ and we dismiss them as possibilities as a result. E.g. Denmark currently seems to include Vikings and Norway... and Celts seem to include Scotland for example.
Maybe one of the nine is Norway or "The Vikings", plus modifications for Denmark.
Are they requiring the Gods and Kings expansion and/or any DLCs to have Brave New World? If they are, then they could modify anything/everything of the existing Civs.
Or Denmark was actually a DLC... so what if that's included in the expansion plus modifications, etc.?
Maybe one of the nine is Norway or "The Vikings", plus modifications for Denmark.
Are they requiring the Gods and Kings expansion and/or any DLCs to have Brave New World? If they are, then they could modify anything/everything of the existing Civs.
Or Denmark was actually a DLC... so what if that's included in the expansion plus modifications, etc.?
Arachnofiend
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To be honest Israel was basically a non-factor in the time that it existed (only considering the ancient state here). They burned down a few Philistine cities but once people realized that Jerusalem was sitting on a trade route the rest of their history is getting beat up by one Mesopotamian power or another.
Israel's impact didn't arise until Judaism's children religions became two of the most important factors in European and near eastern culture.
Israel's impact didn't arise until Judaism's children religions became two of the most important factors in European and near eastern culture.
apocalypse105
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Proparly :
Kongo
Zululand
Belgium
SUmerian
Poland
And 4 more
Kongo
Zululand
Belgium
SUmerian
Poland
And 4 more
I doubt Belgium will be a civ. Maybe only in the Scramble for Africa scenario
JanghanHong
Enrico Trololo
Yes, everyone and their grandmother conquered Egypt at one point or the other.
If you were born before 1950, you had 58% chance of conquering Egypt at some point in your lifetime.
Well so what? That's like saying Japan didn't do anything of significance until its Feudal period.
Fact is Israel/Judea/Palastine, was a major factor in why the Crusades occurred, and became a major concern of World War in the 20th century, forming a state so controversial that random gamers choose to dismiss its existence on a gaming forum... and now seems to be a fixture in most modern wars/conflicts/etc. This expansion IS supposed to be focusing on the later parts of the game right?
- Jerusalem is a major tourist destination (major feature this expansion adds)
- Trade Routes were why Jerusalem was conquered repeatedly in history (trade route are a feature being added in this expansion).
- Archaeology is being added to the game. What percentage of cultural archaeology efforts are conducted with the intent of finding artifacts from Ancient Israel? Or anything Biblical related? Hint: it's big. And past battle sites are supposed to impact future archaeological sites in the game?
- Quick, name all the countries in the world that have nuclear weapons.
- Terrorism is a major factor in the world today, where do the majority of these attach occur? Who's considered the foremost in anti-terrorism tactical training?
- Yes, creator of a major religion in the world - plus two descendant religions which are two of the largest in existence.
All the above fits with inclusion of Israel. No other speculated Civ in this thread really compares in terms of world impact, except for Portugal.
Ancient Israel would be fun. But no, I think modern Israel is exactly what will be one of the nine.
I'm not Israeli or Jewish or anything... I am just finding some of the posts in the topic fairly humorous. Many have posted speculating Israel will be included, most of those with the caveat that it would be ancient Israel of course!
Disagreeing is fine, but to dismiss Israel's significance throughout world history is laughable. There's a strong case even for the Modern Israeli state. I think especially if any other modern states are added.
@codepoet
The two main problems with the inclusion of Israel that also includes the modern state and not just the old incarnations are:
- The fact that the existance of Israel itself is highly controversial,due to its treatment toward Palestians,that in many aspects,is equal to Apartheid regime . And such repression has been there since their inception;
- There is also the thorny issue of religion in Jerusalem . By Making Jerusalem a city-state,this city can still show its religious importance ingame,without having to be attached to any particular religion,which isn't the case if it was attached to a civilization;
The two main problems with the inclusion of Israel that also includes the modern state and not just the old incarnations are:
- The fact that the existance of Israel itself is highly controversial,due to its treatment toward Palestians,that in many aspects,is equal to Apartheid regime . And such repression has been there since their inception;
- There is also the thorny issue of religion in Jerusalem . By Making Jerusalem a city-state,this city can still show its religious importance ingame,without having to be attached to any particular religion,which isn't the case if it was attached to a civilization;
mitsho
Deity
I always assumed that they'd combine the two. You know, like they do with any other civ that still exists in roughly the same spot. The only difference with Israel is that there was a gap of nearly two thousand years (but that is what's leading to the archaeology focus and the fixation on the land today). For the rest, it's the same thing between ancient and modern as with many other civs like France, Japan, England, China and if you want in-game examples Denmark (Berserker -> Ski Infantry) and Germany (the UA vs. the Panzer). In game, I see Israel as a espionage bonus civ with either a religious or gold focus for the early game. Add in a fun UB or a UI like a Kibbutz (and avoid the too military "crowd control" stuff... the "terrorism" point on your list is your weakest one since it opens up a whole lot of debate on Israel's own human rights situation, but let's not start that up here. I feel that a combination of ancient (early bonus are more fun and strong) and modern (fits the expansion, can be much more distinct than the choke ful early game) bonusses fits Israel the best.
So, in short: I don't want to discuss the merit, impact or "how much a debate its inclusion would start" of Israel. I want them in the game because I can see fun gameplay with them. It's a game after all.
So, in short: I don't want to discuss the merit, impact or "how much a debate its inclusion would start" of Israel. I want them in the game because I can see fun gameplay with them. It's a game after all.
True! This is the same reason I think the suggestions of Inuit has merit. Really doesn't seem to fit otherwise... it does sound like fun if its perk is truly built into the game and made feasible. I love the concept of specializing on tiles that other prefer to avoid. For that reason, the Inca are fun with that special tile improvement
labrynianrebel
Warlord
1. Poland
2. Belgium (Scramble for Africa, perhaps a "rapid cultural expansion on other continents" bonus?)
3. Zulu (Fan demand)
4. Somalia (The Dervish State which was Somali, just like Iceni became Celtia)
5. Cherokee (Civil war scenario, plus one of the most "civilized" of the tribes)
6. Morocco (Scramble for Africa)
7. Holy Roman Empire (Fan demand, steals Landsknecht, Tectonic Knight?)
8. Colombia (combination of Gran Columbia and Modern Columbia, just like Denmark was a mixture of Viking Danes and Denmark-Norway)
9. Assyria (hinted)
Since Brussles, Warsaw and Marrakech would be gone here's my "replacement CS" for each:
1. Luxembourg
2. Kiev
3.Tunis
2. Belgium (Scramble for Africa, perhaps a "rapid cultural expansion on other continents" bonus?)
3. Zulu (Fan demand)
4. Somalia (The Dervish State which was Somali, just like Iceni became Celtia)
5. Cherokee (Civil war scenario, plus one of the most "civilized" of the tribes)
6. Morocco (Scramble for Africa)
7. Holy Roman Empire (Fan demand, steals Landsknecht, Tectonic Knight?)
8. Colombia (combination of Gran Columbia and Modern Columbia, just like Denmark was a mixture of Viking Danes and Denmark-Norway)
9. Assyria (hinted)
Since Brussles, Warsaw and Marrakech would be gone here's my "replacement CS" for each:
1. Luxembourg
2. Kiev
3.Tunis
I like this, and I like the prospect of that addition requiring changes to Germany. Along with the Ottoman's trait changing to have something to do with Trade Routes and the Barbary Coast Pirating, Germany's "convert a barbarian" trait should be changed up IMO. So many possibilities. And then replacing the Landsknecht has a ton of possibilities. They could go WW2 with it or early Germanic Tribe history giving a UU that would have fought the Romans... or they could do a Unique Building. Fun!
apocalypse105
Deity
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: The great colonial powers of the world are scrambling to explore the Dark Continent (africa scenario)
Pretty sure they are in the game. And Congo olso
I don't think so...
Stonecutter9
Rex Michiganensis
I like this, and I like the prospect of that addition requiring changes to Germany. Along with the Ottoman's trait changing to have something to do with Trade Routes and the Barbary Coast Pirating, Germany's "convert a barbarian" trait should be changed up IMO. So many possibilities. And then replacing the Landsknecht has a ton of possibilities. They could go WW2 with it or early Germanic Tribe history giving a UU that would have fought the Romans... or they could do a Unique Building. Fun!
I loved Holy Rome in BtS and would be psyched to see it return in CiV
. I think it would definitely steal Germany's Landsknecht UU, but I loved the Rathaus (it was my fave UB) and I think that would be a strong option. Charlemagne could stay, but Otto I would be another strong choice. The UA in my mind would be something faith based, maybe extra faith from trade routes? Germany could get a late game infantry UU, CiV has a shocking lack of modern UU's, only B17 and Zero, both aerial units.I loved Holy Rome in BtS and would be psyched to see it return in CiV
Well, late-game UUs tend to be lame since the game is usually over by the time they become relevant. Besides, Germany's military might peaked during WW2 and they've already got the Panzer for that. If HRE were to steal the Landsknecht (and I don't think that they will since Firaxis doesn't seem to like changing existing civs too much), then I hope that Germany's replacement Unique Thing is something decidedly unmodern.
My Picks:
My Wish List:
- Poland - The only one we know for sure.
- Portugal - Great explorers, would tie in with the African scenario. Would also be great for the new trading updates.
- Assyria - For the siege towers UU
- Zulu/S. Africa - A great African civilization, and a previous civ.
- Congo - Another african civ that would tie into the scenario
- Cherokee (or another n. american civ) - Played a part in the civil war, and would be used
- Brazil - South America lacks a modern civilization, and Brazil does tie in with the tourism side of things.
- Malta - I think this would be a great candidate for a tourist civ. The reason I say that they have a great culture with a lot of art and they have a great tourist industry. I think that's really the kind of civ that Firaxis would be seeking to show off the new culture and tourist additions.
- Phoenicia - The Phoenecians were a great civilization, they were very cultured and were experts of navigation and trade. They could fit in with the new trade system, however my only concern is Carthage, but I still see Phoenicia as too big of a civ to leave out.
My Wish List:
- Israel - I would love to see Israel in the game, they have a great history and would be an amazing civilization for religion. However it's obvious they won't be in this game. If Firaxis wanted to put Israel in Civ V, they would have done so in G&K, but instead they created the Jerusalem city state which is more of an honorable mention.
- Navajo - I would like to see a civ that has some sort of espionage benefit, and with the Navajo you could have just that. They are also a very cultured people, and have the largest reservation. However, it really doesn't tie into the themes of this new expansion.
- Australia or Aboriginole - It just bothers me there is a whole continent without a civilization, but I realize it's not very practical.
- Inuit - I would like the idea of having some civ that would be able to settle those snow tiles..
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