OCCC1 - Small Emperor OOC Conquest

Kulko · Apr 11, 2013

In preparation for a future deity attempt I try out a new OCC Conquest strategy suggested by Lanzelot.

I will play the Vikings on a Archipelago map and try to conquer all the world by using Longbows.

If this works on this level we are hoping to duplicate this receipt on Standard Maps and higher difficulty levels.

Kulko · Apr 11, 2013

The starting save:

I plop in space and find this:

BC3650 Curragh --> Worker
BC3450 Worker --> Curragh
BC3200 Curragh --> Worker
BC3100 Worker --> Curragh
I start paying upkeep.
BC2900 Curragh --> Baracks
BC2850 I meet the Ottomans. I decline trading for now hoping for a better deal once I meet more people.
BC2700 Baracks --> Archer
BC2590 Archer --> Archer
BC2550 I meet America.
They seem to have a trade partner as they have lost their gold.
BC2350 In the same turn I meet Korea and Russia (americas trading partner)
Trade with Russia: Alpha for Pot + Masonry + 20 gp
Trade America Alpha + WC for TW
Trade Osman Alpha for CB + BW + 10g
There are horses on our Island, but they are just outside the city radius.
Switch City to Temple
BC2230 Temple --> Colossus
BC2110 Writing --> CoL Hmm I am very sllow in researching that one. Hopefully the colossus solves that problem.
BC1625 Colossus --> Curragh
BC1600 Curragh --> Curragh
BC1575 Curragh --> Curragh
BC1550 Curragh --> Worker
BC1525 Worker --> Archer

Kulko · Apr 11, 2013

Trondheim at BC1525

The world

The Tech
I have still 13 turns to CoL, but nobody else has writing yet.

The Plan
Fast track to republic and MM Build MoM and TGL. Maybe I am not yet sure if I want to put in literature as I hope to win the game after invention anyway.

CELTICEMPIRE · Apr 11, 2013

That's a good city you've got there!

(I can't see the picture under "the world")

Tani Coyote · Apr 11, 2013

Off to a great start!

That's a wonderful location: fresh water, a port, and a cattle. With lots of grassland for irrigation and hills for shields.

I'll be following; hopefully you can make the most of it and create a good island empire!

Lanzelot · Apr 11, 2013

Some comments:

You should have built an early granary. The city should be size 12 by now. (That also means: don't work that hill while you still have grassland. And: you have too many workers. Join one or two back to the city. There are enough improved tiles already.)
The barracks was too early, no need to build units yet (except for two MP archers). Better get Colossus and Lighthouse asap.
Why 30% tax? You need to research as high as possible. Too many units? I would say, at this point 1 worker, 2 archers and 3 curraghs is all we need. That would be -2gpt unit upkeep, which can be covered by trades with the AI.
Literature should be useful. Can always be used for trading on that level, and a library will help researching the more expensive techs (Currency, Construction, and the 3 middle age techs up to Invention).
Great Library will of course be unnecessary. After all, we want to keep the AI isolated and backwards... If it turns out we can't get the job done with Berserks alone and we need to get into the IA, one of the AIs will surely have built the GLib, so we can capture it and take the "elevator"...

Edit: can you attach the start save?

Kulko · Apr 11, 2013

SonicTH said:
Off to a great start!

That's a wonderful location: fresh water, a port, and a cattle. With lots of grassland for irrigation and hills for shields.

I'll be following; hopefully you can make the most of it and create a good island empire!

Well in this game I think anything but 20 or 30 spt matters only partially so the hills are probably a bit overkill. and on the other hand I have zero lux on my island which hurts.

Kulko · Apr 11, 2013

Lanzelot said:
Some comments:

You should have built an early granary. The city should be size 12 by now. (That also means: don't work that hill while you still have grassland. And: you have too many workers. Join one or two back to the city. There are enough improved tiles already.)

The barracks was too early, no need to build units yet (except for two MP archers). Better get Colossus and Lighthouse asap.

Why 30% tax? You need to research as high as possible. Too many units? I would say, at this point 1 worker, 2 archers and 3 curraghs is all we need. That would be -2gpt unit upkeep, which can be covered by trades with the AI.

Literature should be useful. Can always be used for trading on that level, and a library will help researching the more expansive techs (Currency, Construction, and the 3 middle age techs up to Invention).
Great Library will of course be unnecessary. After all, we want to keep the AI isolated and backwards... If it turns out we can't get the job done with Berserks alone and we need to get into the IA, one of the AIs will surely have built the GLib, so we can capture it and take the "elevator"...

Edit: can you attach the start save?

I think early granary would have meant like since 3 turns, I only got Pot this late. Generally speaking I probably should have traded with the ottomans immediately, although the deals were crap. Without an early trade for pot, cb or BW there was just no built available, when I built the Baracks and I would not want to "waste" shields on wealth yet.
Unit Upkeep is high, because I have a few more Curraghs, again there is nothing else to build and I figured we need lots of ships anyway. and 30 s Galleys will be wasting 10 spt later on.

Kulko · Apr 12, 2013

Spoiler :

Well so far it goes very well. I took all coastal cities from korea in 9 turns. I lost 1 Bezerker in an attack even though they had the Great wall. (which is why wanted to get rid of them first). I gifted all the cities to Osman and plan on switching sides now.
Unfortunately Osman and Wong meet each other in this process, so they have both Feudalism now.

I did not sign Osman into the war in order to keep wong from imediately retaking his cities, but I guess that was not a good idea. it would have reduced the tech pace for both and it would have also slowly killed the population in the cities.

Anyway the next step is taking 3 of osmans new cities in one turn and create a pike army for transport to the island to give my Berzerks cover while they get rid of the last few bastions.

I also think Lanzelot was definitely right about building units later. I spend lots of time on Wealth in the intervening turns and I still have plenty enough units. Getting to Invention earlier is more important than 1 or 2 turns shaved off by prebuilding units too early. Also on emperor 3 BBerzerks are all you need to conquer a city, so even with transport and healing an army of 7 Zerks is plenty enough to take out the first target. The ciritcal target later on will be america who has swallowed up russia and also contains at least on inland city, but he is at war so long now, he is backwards technologically so I am optimistic that I can catch him in time.

Pictures and Staring save will come later in the day.

Tani Coyote · Apr 12, 2013

I just noticed you're going for a One City Conquest Challenge! Good luck with that.

On wealth, as I recall that's commonly seen as something only unproductive frontier cities should use barring a massive budget deficit. Even if you run a deficit, you can usually make it up by constantly looking for tech deals (I support use of CivAssist in this regard).

Good to see you were able to curbstomp Korea though, and good luck with finishing off America.

I forget, is it possible to build an airstrip and colony on another island to get the island's resources?

Kulko · Apr 12, 2013

Trondheim
I am making 38 or 40 spt depending on what I stress, and I could do more, if I needed it for builds.

The world
Korea is mostly reduced, Osman waiting to be next in line. America is growing a bit, but I am pretty sure, I can get to them before they can get Rifles.

Kulko · Apr 12, 2013

And here is the starting save, if you want to prove that you can beat me by 1000 years. (But then we could alos just have played an SG).

Tani Coyote · Apr 12, 2013

I notice there's a King unit in the garrison. If nothing else Regicide mode will make this slightly easier... albeit not by much.

Good luck in beating the Americans to rifles!

Spoonwood · Apr 12, 2013

SonicTH said:
I notice there's a King unit in the garrison. If nothing else Regicide mode will make this slightly easier... albeit not by much.

I think you saw an MGL, instead of a king unit.

Lanzelot · Apr 12, 2013

SonicTH said:
I notice there's a King unit in the garrison.

That's an MGL, isn't it? Waiting to form a Pike Army for the Ottoman landing. Looks like there are two Korean, three Ottoman, one American and one German "inland cities". So most of the fighting can be done amphibiously, but the Osmans might still cause some heavy losses to the Bererks, if landed without proper protection...

Edit: Spoonwood was faster... :crazyeye:

Tani Coyote · Apr 12, 2013

Ah, indeed, in retrospect it is a leader! Explains why he's not gunning for the capitals in retrospect.

Well, this just means it'll be even more fun!

Kulko · Apr 12, 2013

Well the real plan was to use him to finish off Korea and than hope a new one comes up until I conquered most of Osmans island. I think Since Korea got the Wall, going for the killing blow with horses would be too optimistic. Maybe I need to do min research for Chiv for a case like this.

Lanzelot · Apr 12, 2013

Kulko said:
I think Since Korea got the Wall, going for the killing blow with horses would be too optimistic. Maybe I need to do min research for Chiv for a case like this.

Hey, Berserks got attack-6 and they can attack from land as well...

What else do you need? Just cover them with a few pikes and you are ready to go. No need for a new tech for just these two 1-3 inland cities per AI.

Kulko · Apr 13, 2013

Well on emperor thats certainly true, but when you want to take this to deity, a few pikes aren't going to cut it. So its either a Army per AI, or you could buy a ROP from the nation where you gifted the cities too, place 5 knights there (or 10 horses) and storm from there. If you manage to kill all remaining cities in one turn, there is no counterattack from the AI.

tR1cKy · Apr 13, 2013

Kulko said:
Well on emperor thats certainly true, but when you want to take this to deity, a few pikes aren't going to cut it. So its either a Army per AI, or you could buy a ROP from the nation where you gifted the cities too, place 5 knights there (or 10 horses) and storm from there. If you manage to kill all remaining cities in one turn, there is no counterattack from the AI.

On deity, since they're only one tech away from berserks, you can use some muskets for cover (and possibly land on a hill or mountain). Besides that, OCC conquest @emperor sounds like a tough challenge. I'll be following this.

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