Ukraine Crisis Thread III: a new European order?

^Any cool info on the armed thugs in Western Ukraine too? :mischief:

Or are they just standard 'freedom-fighters' etc.

'10.000 of enemy civilians accidentally killed as a result of the needed siege'
'20.000 of our innocent people brutally slaughtered in the vicious enemy invasion of our lands'

We are still in Seven Kingdoms mode :)
 
Well, have come across a horrible story allegedly penned by a professor a the Krivoy Rog Univ., according to which the Right Sector is touring the land with a portable gibbet mounted on a truck, hanging all and sundry for no good reason.

He has a very bad internet connection, and desperately tries to post his story on chat forums dedicated to various games.

It tends to disappear quickly through moderation.

His dateline seems variable too. Anywhere but Ukraine though.
 
Kyriakos said:
^Any cool info on the armed thugs in Western Ukraine too? :mischief:

Or are they just standard 'freedom-fighters' etc.

'10.000 of enemy civilians accidentally killed as a result of the needed siege'
'20.000 of our innocent people brutally slaughtered in the vicious enemy invasion of our lands'

We are still in Seven Kingdoms mode :)
Click to expand...

Well, where are those thugs in west Ukraine? Hard as they try, the media don't seem to be able to find any (despite the fact that journalists are actually allowed to roam West and Central Ukraine without having to fear violence as those in the East). In fact, it seems that the new central government actually took action against the right-wing radicals. People staying at Maidan now are unarmed and peaceful, unlike those armed-to-the-teeth militiamen setting up roadblocks and occupying buildings in eastern towns.

The Russian narrative of the West being controlled by fascist insurgents is simply ludicrous and nobody in their right mind believes it. Which Putin et al. don't mind at all; it's all meant for Russian public consumption anyway. In Russia, the media are obedient and won't try any nonsense like "independent verification of official claims" :)
 
^Maybe they did not need to use their swords and catapult anymore once they had the coup anyway? ;)

But since the other coup is now going on in the east, i suppose we can forget how it compares to Maidan, cause Maidan is over now for a number of weeks.
 
While I have no doubt to whom are Russian media obedient the fact that I do not see much (if any) plurality in western mainstream media is for me really shocking. I really do not wish to live in the glasshouse of one truth...
 
Plurality in Western Media is usually very shallow, usually defined by left-right dichotomies they have set themselves. The 'right-wing' newspapers bring trashy news with a lot of pictures, celebrities and promote irrational hatred of Islam, the 'left-wing' newspapers usually bring intellectual masturbation and promote an irrational hatred of Israel.

Both present an irrational hostility towards Russia, present a shallow narrative of 'defending human rights' and both have their opinions informed by advertising incomes. Both ultimately misinform their readers into buying prefabricated opinions and create legions of voters who will vote in a predictable fashion.

In (Soviet) Russia, media is controlled by the state. In Europe, the state is controlled by media.
 
The usual Papo-Caesarism vs Caesaro-Papism :)

In the end you won't feel like telling who is who, like those people and pigs playing cards in the final paragraph of Animal Farm.
 
Kyriakos said:
The usual Papo-Caesarism vs Caesaro-Papism :)
Click to expand...

I was thinking about it as well when I wrote it. I prefer Caesaropapism over Ultramontanism (or Papo-Caesarism), because that way there is less ability for hidden powers to maintain de-facto control, which in turn makes politics a way more honourable pursuit. It also allows religion to evolve instead being of being forced into a stasis of dogmatism, which was a trap Roman Catholicism fell in because of its attempts to control states.
 
Was captured NATO forces in DNR
Pic. - oficer Kristonson
kristensken_0.jpg

Captured by prorussian forces NATO soldiers gave press conference

Link to video.
I have to accent, that OSCE officially said that it doesnt have anybody captured anywere. This soldiers was captured as NATO soldiers and they had there documents like NATO oficers.

Yesterday people from DNR(DPR - Donetsk People Republik) captured there frontier transition (Ukrain territory) - to have free moving from and to Russia

Link to video.

As you know aligarch Kolomoyskiy pays $10 000 for each "separatists life" from Donetsk people republik. Some people from DPR came to give there lifes to get money to help the DPR to buy medicaments, but in office of oligarch Kolomoyskiy didnt want to pay money for there lifes.
On sheets writen - "I give my life for 10 000$ to help DPR"

Link to video.

People of DPR capture TV staition
Sound from people: "Police with people, police with people"

Link to video.
 
USSRrat said:
I have to accent, that OSCE officially said that it doesnt have anybody captured anywere.
Click to expand...
Source?
EDIT: OSCE quite clearly hasn't said anything like that.
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...to-free-OSCE-military-observers-Kremlin-7522/

Moscow is taking steps to free the international military observers working for OSCE which were allegedly detained by the pro-federalization protesters near the Ukraine’s eastern city of Slavyansk, said a statement of the Russian Foreign Ministry published Saturday. The Russian side to the extent possible is taking measures to resolve the situation, which has arisen after international military observers were detained near Slavyansk, the statement said.
/.../
On Friday, the press service of the OSCE reported that the military verification team, coordinated by Germany, included four German military experts and one representative from these countries: Denmark, Poland, the Czech Republic and Sweden.
The detained team is "not OSCE monitors" but international military mission sent by OSCE member states in accordance with the 2011 Vienna Document on military transparency, the organization explained on Twitter.
/.../
The Russian Ambassador to the OSCE Andrei Kelin told reporters that Russia favours a speedy release of the OSCE military experts who are reported to have been detained in Slavyansk.
Kelin added that his personnel were unaware of the circumstances under which the experts were detained, or the whereabouts of the group. Kelin said Russia was concerned about the situation, just as all other OSCE member-states.
Click to expand...
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...k-to-seek-release-of-military-observers-0840/
The OSCE said Sunday that a team of negotiators is heading to Slavyansk in eastern Ukraine to try and secure the release of eight military monitors held by self-defense forces. "They are expected to be in the region Sunday," Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe spokesperson Tatyana Baeva said.
Click to expand...
 
Yeekim said:
Source?
EDIT: OSCE quite clearly hasn't said anything like that.
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...to-free-OSCE-military-observers-Kremlin-7522/
Click to expand...
I didnt find english version, but you can you know enlish better. http://www.globalresearch.ca/detain...-out-to-be-nato-military-intelligence/5379400
I can tell you, that there was 13 persons, 8 of them OSCE mission - they went away, other - NATO and Ukrain oficers ouside OSCE and was captured, they can not visit DPR.
 
Yes it wasnt OSCE mission. It was regular spys under OSCE mission. If OSCE want visit - it can, if it sends somebody - sorry it is conflict territory.

About USA fake facts (you remember beard man :) )

Link to video.
 
USSRrat said:
I didnt find english version, but you can you know enlish better. http://www.globalresearch.ca/detain...-out-to-be-nato-military-intelligence/5379400
Click to expand...
You are welcome to provice a source in Russian with an OSCE statement where they deny the prisoners are working for them.
USSRrat said:
Yes it wasnt OSCE mission. It was regular spys under OSCE mission. If OSCE want visit - it can, if it sends somebody - sorry it is conflict territory.
Click to expand...
You (and the "people's mayor" in Slavyansk) quite clearly don't have a slightest idea what OSCE is and is supposed to be doing. What the hell do you think the "military transparency" part is all about?

http://www.osce.org/fsc/74528
 
Yeekim said:
You are welcome to provice a source in Russian with an OSCE statement where they deny the prisoners are working for them.

You (and the "people's mayor" in Slavyansk) quite clearly don't have a slightest idea what OSCE is and is supposed to be doing. What the hell do you think the "military transparency" part is all about?

http://www.osce.org/fsc/74528
Click to expand...

Clous Nokher on Austrian TV said, that it wasnt OSCE mission (russian language, if you can understand)

Link to video.
This mission of OSCE - they are not solders.

Link to video.
 
Winner said:
Stop posting so many videos
Click to expand...
All right, I asked for a source, he gave one.
Although it basically repeated (at least the voiceover in Russian did, hopefully it matched what Mr Nokher(?) was actually saying) what I posted earlier:
The detained team is "not OSCE monitors" but international military mission sent by OSCE member states in accordance with the 2011 Vienna Document on military transparency.
Click to expand...
 
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