SGOTM 20 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

I don't think we should attempt Oracle.

A path to Alphabet seems like the most obvious choice to me. So Writing is a certainty. After that we can either a) research Alphabet ourselves and hope to then trade for Maths, or b) Part research Alphabet (hope an AI will trade it away for HBR) meanwhile tech Maths ourselves.

I'm hoping that an AI will learn Alphabet soon to make this decision clearer.

A list of key techs for us (in no particular order)
  • Alphabet - Trade techs; possibly pick up Maths, IW, Monarchy. Lots of trading partners out there.
  • Maths - Chopping improved.
  • Monarchy - Hereditary Rule; begin to grow vertically or whip more.
  • Currency - Economy boost; fund the HA wars.
  • IW - Chop jungle around ivory (low priority)
  • Metal Casting - build triremes to clear barbarians from seafood
 
^ I'm not totally sure, but iirc it seemed nobody has any OB yet, so maybe nobody even has writing yet. Hence it may take a while before Alpha is out there, making Alpha potentially a good choice. Anyway, won't play further than writing.
 
I agree on Writing after Hunting/Archery. No OB yet seems to indicate the AIs are not moving towards Alpha, so heading there ourselves seems likely to be beneficial.

I also do not like a lot of chopping before Math. We can produce HAs normally and with the whip, I don't think we need a lot of chopping.

On my axe suggestion, I was not saying we should wait on the axe. Just build perhaps one and send him towards Suleiman. We do have that road to help speed him along, and with a fair bit of forest/jungle he won't be that much slower than HAs. Don't hold the HAs back, but having an axe available if we need one could be very helpful.
 
I think we can keep chopping to a minimum until we have Maths. There are some forests we could chop earlier for other reasons: namely, the silver mine by CS, the riverside plains hill by SL and perhaps another 1 or 2 near CS for extra mines (preferably grassland ones).

@Nocho - in your PPP you have 2E1S of SL marked for chop/mine. Is that tile considered riverside?

@Haphazard - why build an axe when we can build a Horse Archer? A Combat2 (stables) HA should have better odds vs a fortified, 20% culture, CG1 archer :)strength:6*1.2=7.2 vs 3*2.15=6.45, ratio 1.12) than a CR1 axe (5 vs 3*1.95=5.85, ratio 0.85). NB: HA odds are slightly better as they're immune to the archers 1st strike.

Axes are cheaper to build though. You can get 3 axes for the cost of 2 HAs. But when we start talking about axes in numbers it doesn't fit the "build perhaps one" concept anymore and you'd start to ask why teching HBR is such a great strategy. :crazyeye:

If it's defending warriors we're hoping to face, then an HA is still super effective (ratio 1.92 for HA, 2.08 for axe).

Even chariots can be effective against warrior defenders. However, we might not want to declare war on Suli too early as he might then start building more defenders in his capital. Very short, very sharp wars are better than longer drawn out ones.

Having said that...
@Nocho - perhaps waiting on 10 HAs is overkill here?
 
Re tile 2E1S, yeah, I assumed it riverside. But maybe we should use the worker for roading to marble instead like Ron suggested. Dunno.

Re 10 HAs, why do you ask me specifically? :) Maybe we can start the show with 7 or 8, especially with the extra chariots. Don't think I'll produce as many in those 5 turns from archery to writing just yet though, if that's what you're saying.
 
nocho said:
Re tile 2E1S, yeah, I assumed it riverside. But maybe we should use the worker for roading to marble instead like Ron suggested. Dunno.
Click to expand...
I'm ambivalent. Perhaps someone else here has a stronger opinion. Failing that, toss a coin :)

Perhaps Worker B could head back to SL after completing the ivory camp + grass mine. It can chop/mine 2E1S of SL freeing up worker D.

Since we won't have a large chopping program until Maths, I think producing Worker E can be skipped for now. Slow building the Settler in SL and then 2pop whipping the Stables should work out with quite good timing I think.
Currently on 64/100:hammers:?
After 3 turns we get 64+48-100=12 overflow.
Next turn into stables adds another 10.
Turn before Archery 2pop whip Stables and get 32 overflow for first HA.
Re 10 HAs, why do you ask me specifically? :) Maybe we can start the show with 7 or 8, especially with the extra chariots. Don't think I'll produce as many in those 5 turns from archery to writing just yet though, if that's what you're saying.
Click to expand...
Yes, I thought the number of HAs could be a stopping condition. Build as many as you can in 5 turns :D
 
I'm good with whatever you decide.
 
I don't think we need to wait until we have 10 HAs to attack. Or even 8. My (limited) understanding of the HA rush concept is that you keep building HAs after the initial attack, and the new HAs are fast enough to catch up to the fighting and replace losses as you continue to push ahead. With the pre-existing road this should work especially well.

Let's see how many we can build in a short window, and then begin the war. With a couple of the chariots added to help clean up wounded units/attack warriors, I think we can begin the war fairly quickly.

On the axe, I am not advocating attacking with axes. I was thinking more of a single axe, which is intended as a defense against spears. If Suleiman does not have any metal or spears, then it would not be needed. But if he does have spears, the axe could act as a stack defender and prevent spears counter-attacking our HAs. Wounded HAs especially could fall back to the axe and regroup/heal in safety.
 
I think I agree with aj that if we hardly want to chop for now, we might as well skip worker E for now. I squeezed it in for chopping after all. However, I'm not convinced we should wait until maths for chopping, but that seems majority opinion, which I'll submit to. :p In that case math really should go after writing though imo, but we'll discuss after my set.

So SL will whip settler into stable, finish chariot and continue HAs. Without chopping I'm expecting just 2 or 3 HAs when writing is done btw.

Unless major discussion will try to play in about 12 hours, if other holiday activities let me. ;)
 
Cool cool cool. Sounds like you have a green light to play. :goodjob:

Great Generals

Another thought for an Axe... what if we attached a Great General to one and gave it the Morale promotion? A 2 move stack defender that can keep up with the horses.
It kind of runs counter to the "medic who takes no part in combat" ethos. This general could be called on to fight in many situations, not just against Spears but also against Swordsmen if we happen to face them.
GG axe could have Combat1+Morale+Medic1+Medic2. Not enough XP to get Medic3. Or we go all out on defence and go Combat1+Morale+Shock+???

Probably our best use for a GG is to turn our scout into a super medic. Since he already has Medic1 he can skip Combat1. Since he only needs 2 more promos (Medic2+Medic3) we could actually split the XP across two units. Maybe an axe, so that the NEXT GG can become the holy grail high morale Axe.

Just thinking... :p
 
Spoiler BUFFY Log :

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 68/500 (1280 BC) [13-Aug-2014 22:45:06]
Silver Lining begins: Stable (6 turns)
Silver Lining begins: Chariot (1 turns)
80% Research: 27 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: -4 per turn, 16 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Silver Lining
Silver Lining finishes: Settler

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Augustus Caesar (Rome) towards Peter (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Napoleon (France) towards Augustus Caesar (Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Peter (Russia) towards Augustus Caesar (Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Civics Change: Suleiman(Ottomans) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 69/500 (1240 BC) [13-Aug-2014 22:46:57]
100% Research: 34 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -12 per turn, 12 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Hunting
Horse Farm grows to size 6

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Augustus Caesar (Rome) towards Peter (Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar (Rome) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Napoleon (France) towards Augustus Caesar (Rome), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Peter (Russia) towards Augustus Caesar (Rome), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 70/500 (1200 BC) [13-Aug-2014 22:53:28]
Research begun: Archery (2 Turns)
Chariot 3 (Horse Farm) promoted: Combat I
60% Research: 21 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 1 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Silver Lining grows to size 6

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar (Rome) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 71/500 (1160 BC) [13-Aug-2014 22:58:23]
A Mine was built near Copper Summit
A Camp was built near Horse Farm
60% Research: 22 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 1 per turn, 1 in the bank

After End Turn:
Silver Lining finishes: Stable
A Hamlet was built near Silver Lining
Copper Summit grows to size 4

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar (Rome) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Victoria (England) towards Napoleon (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 72/500 (1120 BC) [13-Aug-2014 23:01:42]
A Mine was built near Horse Farm
Warrior 4 (Horse Farm) promoted: Combat I
70% Research: 24 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
30% Gold: -2 per turn, 2 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Horse Farm
Tech research finished: Archery
Silver Lining finishes: Chariot
Horse Farm grows to size 5
Horse Farm finishes: Stable
Copper Summit finishes: Barracks

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Augustus Caesar (Rome) towards Peter (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar (Rome) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Napoleon (France) towards Augustus Caesar (Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Peter (Russia) towards Augustus Caesar (Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 73/500 (1080 BC) [13-Aug-2014 23:06:09]
Diplomacy (Tribute Demand): Louis XIV (France) demands that Mehmed (Ottomans) gives Sheep; Mehmed AGREES.
Research begun: Writing (6 Turns)
Silver Lining begins: Horse Archer (5 turns)
Horse Farm begins: Horse Archer (8 turns)
Copper Summit begins: Stable (6 turns)
Chariot 4 (Silver Lining) promoted: Combat I
Chariot 4 (Silver Lining) promoted: Combat II
While attacking in Ottoman territory near Yaroslavl', Chariot 4 (Silver Lining) (4.00/4) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 93.1%)
While attacking in Ottoman territory near Yaroslavl', Warrior 4 (Horse Farm) (1.60/2) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 85.7%)
60% Research: 19 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: -1 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 74/500 (1040 BC) [13-Aug-2014 23:12:48]
Konya founded
Marble Arch begins: Granary (10 turns)
50% Research: 16 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
50% Gold: -1 per turn, 3 in the bank

After End Turn:
Silver Lining grows to size 7
Horse Farm finishes: Horse Archer

Turn 75/500 (1000 BC) [13-Aug-2014 23:17:41]
Horse Farm begins: Horse Archer (5 turns)
50% Research: 16 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
50% Gold: -1 per turn, 2 in the bank

After End Turn:
Silver Lining finishes: Horse Archer

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Augustus Caesar (Rome) towards Peter (Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar (Rome) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Napoleon (France) towards Augustus Caesar (Rome), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Peter (Russia) towards Augustus Caesar (Rome), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 76/500 (975 BC) [13-Aug-2014 23:20:57]
Silver Lining begins: Horse Archer (4 turns)
50% Research: 14 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
50% Gold: -4 per turn, 1 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Horse Farm
Horse Farm grows to size 4
Horse Farm finishes: Horse Archer
Copper Summit finishes: Stable

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Augustus Caesar (Rome) towards Peter (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Julius Caesar (Rome) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Napoleon (France) towards Augustus Caesar (Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Peter (Russia) towards Augustus Caesar (Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 77/500 (950 BC) [13-Aug-2014 23:29:16]
Horse Farm begins: Horse Archer (5 turns)
Copper Summit begins: Horse Archer (5 turns)
A Mine was built near Copper Summit
A Pasture was built near Marble Arch
40% Research: 14 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
60% Gold: 1 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Silver Lining
Silver Lining grows to size 6
Silver Lining finishes: Horse Archer
Copper Summit's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild near Yekaterinburg, Chariot 1 (Horse Farm) (0.80/4) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 86.2%)
While defending in the wild near Yekaterinburg, Chariot 1 (Horse Farm) loses to Barbarian Archer (2.04/3) (Prob Victory: 1.5%)

Turn 78/500 (925 BC) [13-Aug-2014 23:32:24]
Silver Lining begins: Horse Archer (5 turns)
50% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
50% Gold: -1 per turn, 1 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Silver Lining
Horse Farm finishes: Horse Archer

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Augustus Caesar (Rome) towards Peter (Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Napoleon (France) towards Augustus Caesar (Rome), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Peter (Russia) towards Augustus Caesar (Rome), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Victoria (England) towards Napoleon (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 79/500 (900 BC) [13-Aug-2014 23:36:41]
Horse Farm begins: Horse Archer (5 turns)
A Camp was built near Copper Summit
50% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
50% Gold: -2 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Silver Lining finishes: Horse Archer
Copper Summit grows to size 5
Copper Summit finishes: Horse Archer

Turn 80/500 (875 BC) [13-Aug-2014 23:41:39]
Silver Lining begins: Horse Archer (5 turns)
Copper Summit begins: Horse Archer (5 turns)
Marble Arch begins: Monument (6 turns)

So we're ready to declare this turn, it's 875BC. We have 5 HAs and 2 chariots that can invade this turn, 2 more HAs following suit and a third more that could be whipped this turn from HF. Note that the chariot in HF could eat a worker next to a city that Sulei settled offensively close to our south.

We founded Marble Arch. An evasive manoeuvre with 2 barb archers cost a turn in settling. A chariot wasn't as lucky closed in between Peter's NE border and 2 barb archers.

Worker Dwight improved MA's cow and roaded a bit. A, B and C just finished a deer camp together and have been doing stuff around CS and HF. They can move this turn still, didn't want to compromise them yet.

Louis demanded sheep, which I caved into for cheap diplo. Remember to cancel in some turns. I also OB'd with him and our scout is checking out his turf.

Interestingly Victoria reached alpha! We could get IW + rest of writing (turn and a bit left) for HBR. Or we finish writing and research alpha until she accepts a trade alpha<->HBR; maybe better.

Augustus went WHEOOHRN, but can't be much to our concern.

Overview Pic:


Spoiler Upload Log :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1280 BC to 875 BC:

Turn 68, 1280 BC: You have trained a Settler in Silver Lining. Work has now begun on a Stable.
Turn 68, 1280 BC: Suleiman adopts Slavery!

Turn 69, 1240 BC: You have discovered Hunting!

Turn 71, 1160 BC: You have constructed a Stable in Silver Lining. Work has now begun on a Chariot.

Turn 72, 1120 BC: You have discovered Archery!

Turn 73, 1080 BC: Mehmed's Chariot 4 (Silver Lining) (4.80) vs Barbarian's Archer (3.00)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Combat Odds: 93.1%
Turn 73, 1080 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Mehmed's Chariot 4 (Silver Lining) has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Mehmed's Warrior 4 (Horse Farm) (2.20) vs Barbarian's Archer (1.44)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Combat Odds: 85.7%
Turn 73, 1080 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 19 (29/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Mehmed's Warrior 4 (Horse Farm) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 19 (10/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 73, 1080 BC: Mehmed's Warrior 4 (Horse Farm) has defeated Barbarian's Archer!

Turn 74, 1040 BC: Marble Arch has been founded.

Turn 76, 975 BC: The Oracle has been built in a far away land!

Turn 77, 950 BC: The borders of Copper Summit have expanded!
Turn 77, 950 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.30) vs Mehmed's Chariot 1 (Horse Farm) (4.80)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Combat Odds: 13.8%
Turn 77, 950 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 77, 950 BC: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Mehmed's Chariot 1 (Horse Farm) is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Mehmed's Chariot 1 (Horse Farm) is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Mehmed's Chariot 1 (Horse Farm) is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Mehmed's Chariot 1 (Horse Farm) is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Mehmed's Chariot 1 (Horse Farm) is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Mehmed's Chariot 1 (Horse Farm) has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 77, 950 BC: Barbarian's Archer (2.24) vs Mehmed's Chariot 1 (Horse Farm) (0.96)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Combat Odds: 98.5%
Turn 77, 950 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 77, 950 BC: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Mehmed's Chariot 1 (Horse Farm) is hit for 19 (1/100HP)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Mehmed's Chariot 1 (Horse Farm) is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 77, 950 BC: Barbarian's Archer has defeated Mehmed's Chariot 1 (Horse Farm)!

Turn 78, 925 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Marble Arch!
Turn 78, 925 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Marble Arch!
Turn 78, 925 BC: Silver Lining has become happy.
Turn 78, 925 BC: Horse Farm can hurry Horse Archer for 1&#8692; with 36&#8484; overflow and +1&#8676; for 24 turns.
Turn 78, 925 BC: Copper Summit can hurry Horse Archer for 1&#8692; with 21&#8484; overflow and +1&#8676; for 10 turns.
Turn 78, 925 BC: Victoria will trade Iron Working, Meditation, Sailing, Writing

Turn 79, 900 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Marble Arch!
Turn 79, 900 BC: Silver Lining can hurry Horse Archer for 1&#8692; with 30&#8484; overflow and +1&#8676; for 19 turns.
Turn 79, 900 BC: Napoleon is the worst enemy of Victoria.
Turn 79, 900 BC: Copper Summit will grow to size 5 on the next turn.

Turn 80, 875 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Marble Arch!
Turn 80, 875 BC: Silver Lining will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 80, 875 BC: Horse Farm will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 80, 875 BC: Horse Farm can hurry Horse Archer for 2&#8692; with 36&#8484; overflow and +1&#8676; for 22 turns.
Turn 80, 875 BC: Copper Summit has grown to size 5.
 
Looking wonderful :D Time to collect ourselves some new cities :ninja:

Our cities look strong. Great tiles to work and population to work them. I reckon we could keep this war machine rolling all over Ottoman and Russian lands.

I really like that Victoria has learned Alphabet. I definitely agree that we should finish Writing and try to trade for Alphabet. If only Victoria and us have the tech then we could have lots of opportunities for some tech brokering. I'm hopeful that for the cost of HBR + some small investment in Alpha we can pick up IW, Maths and a bunch of other techs.

MC should be a high priority after Alpha and Maths. HF and MA have lots of seafood to work and the barbarian city itself would be good to have. I'm curious what sort of defences we might see in there.
 
Well, RL decided to punish me for getting back to SGOTM. Grading marathon, then having to explain to the students who got "B's" why they didn't get "A's" (because you are not as good as you think you are, perhaps?) ...

Roped into a surprise project at work ...

Nice screw in a tire ...

Nice big rock cracks windshield ...

Bay window repairs ...

and just when I though it was safe to go back in the forum ...

Massive rain last night reveals roof leak, as the ceiling over my bed starts showing a wet stain.

I have a set of four site visits to run to between now and next Wednesday, after which, if the fates are finally bored with me, I should be able to get my head back into this game.

dV
 
Good to hear from you dV. Would you like to take the next set, or shall I bump you down the list again?

The roster order is:
  1. Haphazard1
  2. Ronnie1
  3. nocho Just Played :goodjob:
  4. da_Vinci Up Now! :scan:
  5. Sleepless On Deck :p
  6. McArine

Advising:
Ororo, adrianj
 
Ok, moving down the list. Sleepless - are you back in?

McArine - are you around?

(I don't intend to skip anyone if they are in fact available)

The roster order is:
  1. Haphazard1
  2. Ronnie1
  3. nocho Just Played :goodjob:
  4. Sleepless Up Now! :scan:
  5. McArine On Deck :p
  6. da_Vinci

Advising:
Ororo, adrianj
 
Looking good, nocho! :goodjob:

Definitely agree on giving our extra sheep to Louis. Doesn't really cost us anything, and doesn't really help him all that much. We just need to remember to cancel it once we can.

Looks like some Roman vs. Roman action is probably going to start. :) I agree that this should not impact us, although we may get asked to join by both sides. Which Roman do we want to side with, longer term? We will need to avoid angering that Roman, if possible.

Suleiman is now in Slavery (changed during the set) and has 5 cities. What should our policy be for keeping/razing? If we keep the HAs coming, we should be able to wipe him out.

Also, what is our policy for promoting HAs? A lot will depend on what defenders we see, of course. I generally like to use flanking promos on the first HA or two hitting a city, as withdrawal chance helps survival more than combat against the top defenders. But later HAs often do better with combat or perhaps combat/anti-archery. What does the team think?

On tech I would definitely push for getting Alpha from Victoria if we can. If no one else has Alpha yet then we should be able to clean up all the available earlier techs once we have Alpha ourselves. Again, we need to decide which AI from each pair of civs we want to avoid upsetting with worst enemy trades. Hopefully we can still get all the valuable techs while avoiding too much diplo damage with the civs we want to keep as potential friends. I would love to get Math from someone...IW of course...not sure about the cheaper techs. We do have to worry about WFYABTA. We need to make sure we track every trade, so we can predict when the AIs will hit their trade limits.
 
We started the discussion regarding which AIs to favour.

To quote myself:
adrianj said:
Russian friend
Of Peter and Catherine, I suggest we pick Catherine. Peter has slightly closer cities that we might like to capture quite soon. +1 hidden base attitude. NoTechTradeThreshold is the same as Peter, though slightly higher TechTradeKnownPercent. She is known as a liability in that she can be bribed into war with Friendlies, however, you need to get her Friendly yourself to do it.

Catherine has a low BasePeaceWeight (2). She is more likely to be friends with Louis (1 is close to 2) than Napoleon (0), Julius (4) than Augustus (8).

Roman friend
Augustus has an outlier basePeaceWeight of (8). He will find it hard to make friends with the others we have met, hence no one will likely care if we declare war on him. I suggest we pick Julius as our Roman friend.

French friend
For the French speaker it doesn't seem so obvious.
Louis has favourite civic HRule, compared to Napoleon's more difficult Representation. Catherine and Louis will likely be good friends (similar peace weight, same fav civics). Louis has a lower TechTradeKnownPercent than Napoleon, though a lower NoTechTradeThreshold. Perhaps what is more important is befriending the one who will less like the others, so we don't get negative modifiers for declaring war. I don't know, toss a coin? :dunno:
Click to expand...
Louis has already built us some wonders has he not? I think for that reason we should pick Napoleon as our friend and Louis as a target. (haphazard mentioned this) Victoria doesn't like Napoleon, and both of them have equal wonders. Louis is doing well and may offer more to trade. So we'll pick Louis as our friend.

As far as we know right now, Victoria is the only English player. Since it seems she won't draw the ire of anyone we should definitely befriend her.

Summary:
Make friends with Catherine, Julius, Napoleon Louis and Victoria. Give in to all their requests, including stop trade requests EXCEPT ones against others in our bloc.
Ignore and cancel deals with (if asked) Louis Napoleon, Peter, Augustus.

I think we should even try to reinforce our bloc by fomenting animosity against the others. Once we have Alphabet, we might consider gifting away techs in exchange for them cancelling trade deals, or even declaring war.
Obviously no need to bother asking Catherine to cancel deals with Peter, but would be useful to get her to cancel deals with Louis for example.
Same goes for Victoria. Try to get her aligned to our bloc and not the others. Asking them to cancel deals with Augustus would be a real benefit, as it's possible we end up declaring war on Augustus ourselves at Julius' request.
 
Looks good nocho!

Thanks for the trade/diplo summary aj!

About what cities to keep? Suli's newest city for example can't have any food and must be razed. In general, 1 food resource minimum if there are other recources available, else 2 foods to keep imo. There is a chariot fortified in HF that can be used in our assault.

MM in Marble Arch, we are better off working the plains forest until the granary is done in 2 turns. I know it seems wrong, but there is no benefit from the extra food in the short run.
 
I'm going to run the roster a little differently from here. I've got a new category of non-active players on the bench. If you're in this group then at any point you can put your hand up to be inserted into the play order in the next position. You're certainly not excluded - simply tell me when you're available and you'll get the next turn.

Meanwhile, we will more quickly rotate around the active players.

As for right now, we've come back around to haphazard1

The roster order is:
  1. haphazard1 Up Now! :scan:
  2. Ronnie1 On Deck :p
  3. nocho Just Played :goodjob:

On the bench
Sleepless, McArine, da_Vinci

Advising:
Ororo, adrianj
 
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