1485AD deity peaceful cultural victory. Small map, Quick speed.

jesusin

Ant
GOTM Staff
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Hi all. Criticism and suggestions are welcome.

Cultural, 1485AD, 34551 points (1454 basic), 10,5 hours, 5 sessions.
Small, GreatPlains, no barbs, no cheating. English, Lizzy. Hatty, Washington, Cyrus, Fred.

Initial expansion was not too good, bad 4th city, ended up flipping to other civ, fortunately that happened after my cathedrals where done. Parthenon, Music via GP, 1st to Liber. Alph somewhat late (not beeline but Myst, BW and Masonry first). Late Alphabet brought down global tech pace. Starting position wasn't too good. Teching till 740AD. Liber620AD. Alph 965BC. Hammers phase: 650BC-1025AD. No rush buying, but slavery. 9GP, all artists, all 100% probability. So no Academy! 6Cathedr, ended up with only 3 cities.

Debate:
1.-Is Parthenon worthwhile?
Pros:
-20 culture after 1000 years.
-1 GP artist just in time to pop Music with its free GP.
Cons:
-Your 4th city its going to end in a very bad place if you divert hammers from expansion towards a wonder.

2.- Is Pyramids worthwhile?
@Godotnut recommends getting the Pyramids, then the GL with the GP engineer. I don't like the idea, you "waste" a GP that should have been an artist and you polute your poll with engineer and scientist points. On the other hand, he is able to rushbuy Temples and Cathedrals, while i have to whip them.
 
Congratulation!:goodjob: Were you able to trade techs with anyone? If yes, what did you get?
 
I keep quite detailed notes of my games:

965BC Wash traded Mono+Pott+Hunt for Alph. Cyr traded IW+Pries for Alph.
895BC Fred traded Monar for Alph+Poly. Cyr traded Medi for Mono
370BC Cyr traded Maths+310 for Lite+Drama.
335BC Fred traded Curr+10 for Lite+Drama. Wash traded Construc for Lite+Drama. Hat has Feud, arrg. Traded Sail+Arc+60 for Drama.
265BC Hat traded CoL+10 for Curr+Constr
160BC Hat has Music, agg, Wash traded MC+20 for Music, Fred 360, Cyr 80.
125BC Hat traded Calen for MC
440 Fred has Paper. Hat traded Philo(almost done)+HBR+10 for Paper. Wash Comp+160, CyrWM+100.
590 Hat traded Machi+Gunp for Educ+730. Cyr 490 for Educ
620 Hat traded Guilds+380 for Liber.
650 Wash traded Bank for Libe+290.
710 Fred traded 120 for Liber.
740 Fred friendly starts trading traded print+optics+30 for Natio
770 Wash traded Econo for Print+450g.
 
I think it's especially cool that you won these two games at quick speed. Some folks are convinced that only Marathon can win on the HOF board, and you proved that's not true.

Personally, I've never even attempted Deity at quick. Maybe I should give it a go for the new Warlords board.

BTW, I changed my mind about building the Great Library with a Pyramid-spawned engineer. I've come to agree that diluting the artist gene pool isn't worth it.

Debate's still out on the Pyramids. But now I use the engineer for the Sistine Chapel.
 
godotnut said:
Some folks are convinced that only Marathon can win on the HOF board, and you proved that's not true.

I concur! Furthermore, some folks are also convinced that only warmongers can win the top HOF slot and this proved that's not true.;)
 
Well, I didn’t play these games to get my name in the HOF, but just for my own enjoyment. And also because I would like to ascertain which is the best possible strategy for a peaceful cultural victory.

As a consequence, I chose Small and Quick just to be able to play these games and also the GOTM (I am quite a slow player). I chose peaceful leaders and no barbs to avoid interferences, so that the results of different strategies where comparable. The leader is a pretty obvious choice. The map, I chose at random, as long as it was a single landmass map. And all I asked MapFinder was river and marble, although I didn’t use it much in the 1465AD game.

Speed really doesn’t matter, you are not moving units much.
Size and number of rivals, I am not sure. More Civs means more trades, but also more competition to get the first to Liberalism or wonders.
What map do you think is best suited to this strategy?
Do you think a coastal start would be better, given the fact that Lizzy starts with fishing?
 
First congratulations! Then, just a thought: instead of using the GPs for final culture rush, why not use them for techs (do not use all of them though, since you need some for balancing the culture outputs in the 3 cities)? Go bee-line to democracy. Suppose you get democracy 50 turns earlier than now, here's the effect:

1) around 100 extra commerce for every cottage square due to faster growth towards town.
2) trade/sell to AIs for another tech or big money
3) ? don't know if there's more.

For each GP devoted to a tech, you lose 2680 culture. Suppose you have 500 culture per city at last stage, then 2680 culture is just 1.7 turns. For 1.7 turns of loss you get many turns ahead in technology plus a lot of money for upkeeps. Good deal?
 
Thank you very much for your refreshing ideas, Xin Yu.
Posts like yours are just the kind of thing I was looking for when I decided to open this thread.

Now, going into detail, I am not sure it is so good an idea.
- Since I got Liberalism, Nationalism and Printing press, revolted to Free Speech, pacifism and Caste System, and shut down research, till victory, 48 turns passed.
- Most cottages where already towns by then. You should cottage spam soon. I started quite late this game (790BC).
- I never researched Democracy.
- I didn’t know what to do with my money. AIs are so filthy rich at Deity that you get tons of money, either if you sell techs or if you sell happiness and strategic resources.
- I had 550, 400 and 250 culture per turn at the end of the game in my 3 cities. If I deprive the last city of a Great Work, it will take it 10+ turns to get those 2680 culture points back.

Now, on the other hand:
- It is true that I have had games where the last artist was useless, since there were 2 cities finishing the very same turn before the use of that last GP.
- Using an artist to get Music for free and then recovering the artist because you where first to Music is no doubt a killer.
 
Agreed that democracy may not worth to get if most of the cottages already become towns. However if you use some of the GPs to get Music (as you said) then Liberalism, then you can start culture rush earlier. You probably only need like 6-7 GPs for the 250 culture city to catch up, and if you move one cathedral from the 550 city to the 400 one they two should be even. So you'll have 2 spare GPs towards techs. (A side note: keep great artists and use other types for techs, this means that you don't mind getting some prophets and scientists as far as most of the GPs are artists.)

Starting techs: prefer wheel and agriculture for bee-line to pottery, writing and alphabet (Egyptian or France, prefer Egyptian for better leader traits). However if you plan on getting masonry early (for Pyramid) then mysticism or mining can be crucial (leader trait needs to have industrious for faster wonder building -- Chinese Qin).

I started a game deity, small, great plains, quick. My leader was Chinese Qin. Starting city had a stone, so I went ahead for pyramid (I was following Godotnut's strategy). First a worker while researching wheel. Worker built road towards stone while researching masonery. Hooked up stone, started pyramid after size 2 and a settler. By this time I finished pottery, writing and were researching alphabets.

However, strangely it said 41 turns to finish the pyramid. How could it be? Pyramid was 310 hammers, my hammer per turn was 6 base (no trees in city radius) with 50% bonus. It should be less than 35 turns? My calculation: if there were several trees in city radius then I could probably cut it to within 25 turns with chopping.)

Anyway this was a quick game during lunch break, will try again later.
 
Hi, Xin Yu. Researching till Democracy is a greeeeat thing. I had never seriously considered this option. You really opened my eyes.

The reason I didn't fully appreciate your suggestion (I am sorry about it) was that I was not researching fast enough. In my last game (please, read http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=187986 if you are interested) I got Liberalism in 200AD. At that date you don't have a lot of towns and you really need to build your Cathedrals fast.

Now, when turning 100% culture, I feel undecided between Caste System, Slavery and Emancipation. I want them all!
 
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