ALC Game 17, Take 2: Russia/Peter (BtS)

Don't spam Ming Inc. until u have control one source of aluminium!! Sushi' co. is fine, just leave at least one city that can build the head quarter of the standard ethonol.
your capital (rostov) can only build civilized jewellry, so that's the corporation u should spam to other civs, and it's not that powerful corp. save one GA for that. it's tricky that other civs have to control at least 1 gold, silver or gem so that u can spread the jew corp.

I won't switch to FR for the hapiness, instead I would build those late happiness wonders. the cossack war agaisnt japan is viable but how do u weight biology and those hapiness wonders? if u delay cossack for biology, cossack couldn't show its power. and we have massive land in control so i am afraid that cossack would be defensive force in this ALC.

Right now, Mining Inc. will only gain +8 max if I read this correctly. Mining Inc. uses coal, iron, copper, gold, and silver. Russia only has one iron (with two more possibly coming, one on the ice and another on an island), 0 copper, 3 gold (with 1 traded away, I think) and 1 silver. If you hover over each corporation there, you can see what it would bring to each city and cost in maintenance.

That could go up with coal, but Mining Inc. won't be as big a boon or cost in each city as Sushi.

sigmakan said:

In my games I've found corporations to be useless. By the time I can found a corporation all other civs have state property :/

Click to expand...

I had this problem so I got the U.N. and made everyone adopt environmentalism. That solved the problem

Validator,

lets assume from your scenario that you are correct about base maintanance due to inflaction being 50gpt. courthouse will reduce total upkeep by 50%, and free market will reduce it further 25%. so total maintanance for this is only 12.5gpt give or take.

the capitol is still pulling in 15gpt for that city (if you have market,grocer,bank,wallstreet) so you are infact running at a surplus of 2.5gpt per city. if you are running beurocracy its actually higher than that.


but what also needs to be factored into this is the additional commerce generated in the capitol, multiplied by those buildings and how it weighs in. while even I don't spam them to 100% of my cities, I have found it to be a huge production spike and worth it, even when it costs money.

and how quickly those mining inc cities get their nessessary infrastructure built. it goes quick to build courthouse, forge, granary, library etc and they become as productive as your core cities. normally the biggest problem with these mediocre cities is a lack of production resulting in a lack of infrastructure buildings.

sid's sushi can be expensive, and does not nessessarily belong in every city. but the benefits are not as good as mining inc, so it makes it much safer to spam to enemy cities. the extra commerce generated from this effort more than makes up for the defecit associated with running mining inc.


yeah they're too expensive right now, its why i'm playing with solver's patch. a little too late for that this game though.

I would suggest a gentle spreading of mining inc, start with priority cities and expand as you can afford it. if that eastern island is going to become a colony then of cource spread it there. research may drop a little bit, but like I said that can be mitigated by running more scientists. his GP farm has a ton of scientists in it and that will only increase, so this in itself may offset the lowered science output. also the AI techs slower, so maintaining 60-70% research is no longer required on monarch.

also, you can start trading for redundant sources of iron, copper etc. cancel that trade of gold and further strengthen the effects. this will gear up production to begin assaulting japan.

before you get too critical, run a few games with it and see what you think. next war is a good spot to test it actually, because infrastructure is already in place. or just use worldbuilder.

NaZ

Round 9: 1340 AD to 1550 AD, Part 1

So I took everyone's recommendation and used the Great Scientist towards Printing Press:



As you'll see, it didn't make a huge difference in my income (I only have one commerce city, after all), but it's a step towards other key technologies such as Rifling and Biology.

My income was increasingly helped, however, by my Privateers:



There are several AI cities situated like this--coastal, close together, and with a coastal tile (for the +10% defensive bonus) that lend themselves to blockades. I think I was making around 10-12 GPT from about 3 blockades by the end of the round. Avast, ye swabs!

Next up:



That gave me the free Great Merchant, whom I put into suspended animation in Rostov in anticipation of founding Sid's Sushi Co. when it's available. This also enabled the new Custom House building, which should be a boon to several of my coastal cities, along with the Harbours.

Meanwhile, Tokugawa declared war on Gandhi, again, and the Indian came asking for my help:




I thought about it and agreed. Tokugawa was nowhere near Astronomy for Galleons, and I had Chemistry for Frigates now. I also had some Privateers scouring his coast for booty, and put them to work sinking his Triremes and Galleys. Down to Davey Jones' locker, ye scurvy dogs! (Pirate talk is goofy but fun. Forgive me while I indulge.) All the same, I upgraded several of my own Triremes and Caravels to Frigates just to be safe. I had the gold to spare, as you can see, and it was faster than building a bunch of them (which I nevertheless continued to do).

Speaking of gold, has anyone else ever noticed how freakin' stingy Gandhi can be? I keep asking him to spare some gold--usually 100-200--for me, his best friend, and he has yet to agree once in this game, not even when he's "Friendly". I never realized pacifist could be such skinflints.

Anyway, on the same turn, I finished Printing Press:



Which didn't take long thanks to the help from the Great Scientist. Like I said, not a big difference to my income--I'm in the red because I lowered the culture slider. I soon had to raise it, though, to fight off unhappiness in Ruska. (Which I forgot to rename! Darn!)

My next Great Scientist went towards Scientific Method:



And then, I finished that nice little wonder I'd been working on in Yaroslavl':



And finally I get to enjoy some of the benefits of the Mausoleum: 5 extra turns on the Golden Age. Nice.

Since a GA in BtS allows you to change civics anarchy-free, I checked everyone's economics civics:



Okay, Mercantilism was growing in acceptance, but I still had two very profitable sources of trade route income from Shaka and Bismarck. So I switched into Free Market:



That boosted my revenues by around 30 GPT. Not bad!

I guess I should have focused on either pursuing Cossacks or Biology in this round, but I kind of juggled between the two.



Of course, MT also enables the new Cuirassier unit, a step up from Knights, and I built several of them to keep my strength rating up. I also started building Stables in anticipation of Cossacks.

However, rather than bee-lining to Rifling, I went off in pursuit of the science class techs, Physics and Biology. The SE is really turning out to be the highlight of this game, whereas Cossacks have been nerfed significantly, and aren't too heavily needed on this map. Still, with everyone else so significantly far behind, it might still be possible to give Russia's UU their day in the sun.

Meanwhile, my trading away of my sole source of copper, I suppose, may have resulted in an interesting quest proposition:



Given the city's position I think it's unlikely that Tokugawa will capture or destroy it, but who knows, he can be tenacious if he's motivated. I didn't exactly drop everything and go after it, but we have until turn 458 (I really like how the turn # is displayed in BtS). Give it some thought.

The Golden Age and lighbulbing combined to contribute towards accelerated research:



After that I went after Physics for the free Great Scientist.

Oh, and, do I have oil somewhere in my territory? Why, yes, it just so happens I have exactly one source of oil:



Those of you who thought I shouldn't settle the stone island can grovel now. Thank you.

Now, granted that Physics is an expensive tech, and that I used a GS to help by contributing flasks towards it, but 17 turns seemed a little long to me. I'm becoming concerned that the SE is starting to lose traction now that the techs are getting more expensive. Any comments or suggestions?

On the military side, all that action my Privateers were seeing, and XPs they were accumulating, meant I got my first Great General without ever really fighting anything but phony wars:



I settled him in St. Petersburg as Military Instructor. +2 XPs to make level 3 units out of the gate is very nice indeed. Now that I have Military Tradition, we should also consider which city would be best for West Point. I was thinking of Novgorod, though I am concerned that Ruska may have to steal that clam tile back at some point.

Anyway, that's Part 1. Did Tokugawa devote himself to fleet-building in an effort to destroy me? Did Shaka turn belligerent as he usually does? Did Gandhi manage to pull of an Apostolic Palace upset and start making trouble? Stay tuned for more!

nice round, but unless someone knows what the rewards are, or if you are planning to take down Gahndi anyway i wouldnt go after the copper

I had a greed quest asking to take horses. I got 10 free unpromoted knights as a reward. Not game-breaking but it did help with finishing off the guy i was attacking.

I think you should consider conquering Gandhi. You take his territories and the game is pretty much in the bag. He's your only rival right now.

Round 9: 1340 AD to 1550 AD, Part 2

The neighbourhood started to get more crowded towards the end of this round:



Wang Kon is a vassal of Japan (something which I'm sure would appall any real-life Korean). Seems Tokugawa decided to split off that southern island he populated into a colony. This is a welcome development; one thing that made me hesitate about attacking Japan was the prospect of having to perform not one but two amphibious invasions. Now I can just leave his vassal alone if I decide to take Tokugawa down.

Towards the end of my extended Golden Age, it seemed that Mercantilism was what all the cool kids were doing:



Well, I don't want to be ostracized for not fitting in, do I? More to the point, with the trade routes drying up, it makes little sense to hang on to Free Market. It will return once everyone else has Economics (I tend to sell it off for a song once a civ has Education) and converts to Free Market themselves. I decided to take advantage once again of the new GA get-out-of-anarchy-free card:



As per an earlier recommendation, I tended to run spy specialists and, following that, merchants in most of my smaller cities, with scientists in my larger cities that have all the research-multiplying infrastructure.

I was periodically leveraging espionage my selling techs to civs when they were 1 turn away from completion. This, and our resource trading, helped raise my rating with Shaka to "Pleased". When he got there, he offered me a pretty sweet deal:



Nice. Happiness resources are scarce on this map, and one more is always welcome. Hooking up that source of iron on the northern tundra island was definitely worthwhile.

In 1500 I finished Physics, beating Gandhi to it by several turns, and earned the free Great Scientist:



I immediately burned him towards Biology.

Shortly after this, Shaka decided to take advantage of our new-found friendship by showing up with an interesting request:



So apparently he and Bizzy aren't exactly Buddhist bosom buddies. I accepted. It's yet another phony war, for the most part, what little action there was seen by my Privateers, who are sinking any vessel timorous enough to come nearby anyway. And it didn't last long, as you'll see.

As well as Mercantilism being all the rage, colonies are apparently the in thing, as well:



He's Shaka's vassal. That's, what, 3 colonies in this game now? Well, the Big and Small map certainly lends itself to it. It makes me wonder if I should also split off stone island. I've been building the Forbidden Palace there, but should I stop and make it a vassal instead? It might end up being Catherine, and don't colonies love you to pieces?

Then again, it might be Uncle Joe.

I finished researching Biology shortly after this and was able to add a few more specialists on top of the free one from Mercantilism in several of my cities. I then resumed the track towards Rifling for Cossacks. I'm thinking that after that I should go after Constitution and Democracy so I can build the Statue of Liberty (I'll have to get my copper back from Mao for a while) so I can keep those free specialists when I change back to Free Market.

I won residency of the Apostolic Palace again, and used it to bring the phony war with Bismarck to an early close:



I kind of missed the GPT I was getting from him for sugar. Unfortunately, he isn't likely to trade spices to me for quite some time.

Another Great Scientist was born in Moscow:



As you can see, he'll lightbulb part of Electricity. I haven't used him yet. I'm thinking of using him for another Golden Age. My thoughts there are that I'll have Cossacks and Riflemen soon. I could use the GA to switch civics anarchy-free to Police State, Vassalage, and Theocracy and pump out promoted units for several turns thanks to the PS/GA combined production boon. Then I invade somebody--either Japan or India, take your pick. Going after India would snag me some nice resources, take out my main rival, and let me accomplish that military quest. Whaddya think?

The other possible use for him besides lightbulbing is for an Academy in Orenburg, that pig/double fish island SE of Rostov. It's capable of running around 4-6 specialists. Or the Academy could go in Krasnoyarsk (the clam/crab city E of Moscow), which is where I'm thinking of putting the National Park. It has those 2 seafood resources as well as a flood plain and grassland tile, along with 5 forests (and one grassland tile where a forest might grow back) that could be preserves. I could put a NP city between Yakutsk and Rostov, but it's going to take some time to get its infrastructure in place. Krasnoyarsk can build the NP next, once its Courthouse is done.

However, I kind of like the idea of a military-focused GA. It would leverage the Mausoleum, the improved GAs in BtS, and the UU.

As the round ended, I was one tech away from that UU:



Meanwhile, I was beginning to populate the eastern islands:



I also have a city due north of there on the large surf-n-turf island.

And speaking of claiming those islands for Russia, it appears that the barbs have saved me a Settler:



Goody, something for my veteran CR Macemen to do!

...and that's pretty much where things stand. I stopped there because, as you can tell by all the questions I'm asking, I have several decisions to make soon.

The saved game file is below, and a state-of-the-world post will follow.

Great game you have going on here. The deteiled desciption of you putting together your economy helps me in my own gameplay. Thanks.

physics calls for...
MASS AIRSHIPS

Definitely use the GS for a golden age (not necessarily right away, though.) You don't need Electricity and you're past the point of diminishing returns for academies.

That said, after MT/Rifling your next tech goal should be MEDICINE for Sid's Sushi Corp! (You still have that Merchant, right?)

Now, about corporations...I've found they can be very expensive, so spread them carefully. Basically, I only spread Sid's Sushi to the cities which need a food boost (such as that SW horse city) or could use the extra culture (Yekaterinburg, perhaps?) You can offset the cost by spreading Sid's Sushi to other countries, though you'll have to wait for everyone to switch out of mercantilism first. What's really nice is that the other country will likely start spamming the corporation to all of its own cities for you! Just be careful that they don't sneak in a cultural victory on you (in other words, DON'T spread it to Gandhi!!!)

One thing to keep in mind is that if you spread Sid's Sushi to other countries, they will no longer trade the resources used for that corporation. And if you decide to found Mining, Inc. as well, naturally you'll want to cancel the copper/iron trades you are making.

As for Gandhi's copper...well, as with all corporations the benefits of Mining, Inc. increase with extra resources, and that city has Iron as well, and Gandhi's got some tasty wonders and holy cities...just sayin'.

whakojacko said:

physics calls for...
MASS AIRSHIPS

Click to expand...

Agree fully. Airships will not have any kind of counter for some time

On other note, Gandhi has to die.... and that quest is interesting ( I have to see ori's article to search what reward you'll get ). Gandhi is by far your worst menace to the win ( to every one you choose... )

EDIT From ori's Random Events list article:

Quest10:
Greed
Prereq: BRONZE_WORKING AND lacking either of the following revealed resources: Oil OR Copper OR Iron OR Horse
Obsolete: if GrowthPercent for the current Game Speed number of turns have ellapsed (100 for normal)
Active/Weight: 40/300
Aim:
Declare War on the owner of the resource triggered, stay in war until you conquer the resource
Result:
1.get 0.5*default number of players for this world size+1 units (4 for standard) with the conquered resource as prerequisite

Click to expand...

Not exactly gamebreaking at this point of the game....

Going very well, I see. As for your colony problem....make two! Then you'll be assured a lovey-dovey Catherine....and Uncle Joe. I can tell you're itching for warring, so why not flex your muscles on the Japanese? Or even Gandhi. Though Otto von Backwards is tempting too. Well, whatever. Check the victory screen and make sure Gandhi isn't up to a cultural victory. If he is, might be a good idea to snuff that out straight away...

The State of the World, 1550 AD

Let's start off with looking at a map of Russia and its far-flung territories:



So as you can see, I'm starting to populate the eastern islands. I must say that I'm really enjoying the Big and Small map. It's very interesting, far less predictable than continents or even fractal. (Which is ironic, since fractal is supposed to be unpredictible; usually, though, I wind up with either a Pangaea or isolated.) In addition, while I have benefited from the splendid isolation afforded by the map in this game, I am challenged in that I don't control several resources. Having oil the way I do is partially luck. I wouldn't be surprised if I aluminum is scarce for me as well.

Speaking of those eastern islands, I made up a dot map to plan out their settlement, and of the northern island as well:



So as you can see, I've settled the yellow and amber sites. The barb city is close enough to the magenta site I originally planned that I'll keep it after capturing it; it snags both seafood resources, that's the main thing. If I do all this, I'll have 24 cities by the end of it. However, I have not managed to generate another Great Engineer, which makes founding Mining Inc. doubtful, and I think that would be a requirement for some of these cities (especially the arctic ones) so their production doesn't suck.

Here's a look at what all those cities are doing:



The really big question is whether or not I should split off the stone island cities into a colony. I wouldn't be surprised if the other eastern island cities ask to join them, and that might not be a bad thing, giving my colony/vassal more cities to draw upon for research and units while saving me maintenance costs. Then again, I do worry about those cities being adequately defended. I suppose I could just send some of my own units over there.

Civics:



So like I said, I'm thinking of a GS-powered GA followed by a shift to Police State, Vassalage, and Theocracy to do military builds for 15 turns or more. At the end of the GA, I thought I'd switch to Nationhood and draft Riflemen like it's going out of style. Thoughts?

Foreign advisor--dang, but this thing got complicated in a hurry:



I suppose the B&S maps just lend themselves to this sort of thing. No wonder the turns take longer to end now.

The "Glance":



It's interesting to see the various vassal/master relationships. The colony vassals do indeed start out with big bonuses towards their masters, but the
opposite is not always the case. And the vassals also don't inherit their masters' attitudes towards other civs--witness how Wang and Saladin each feel about me, both the exact opposite of their masters' attitude.

Resources:



Not much to say here except to point out that Gandhi's incense isn't showing up, probably because he's trading it to someone else?

Info (trade routes and civics):



Techs:



Yeah, I'd really like to get Military Science from Shaka, but I think he has to be at Friendly to trade anything. Maybe I should have kept that phony war with Germany going. Oh well, live and learn. I could always bulk up on espionage points with either him or Saladin and try to steal it.

Victory conditions:



EDIT: It's not impossible, I suppose, for Gandhi to achieve a cultural victory, but it doesn't look like he's actively pursuing it.

Power:



I'm starting to scoot ahead of everyone else, thanks to the techs, navy, and a few Cuirassiers. Hey, I know Barracks and Drydocks count towards your power rating, but I've been wondering for ages--what about Stables? They should count, after all, they're military buildings like the other two. And do Airports also now count towards it in BtS, since they provide air units with XPs?

Espionage:



It's very useful, being able to see what everyone's researching, and not to have to tediously move a spy around between various civs to do so.

Demographics:



And lastly, some of the espionage screen:



I lowered the espionage slider down to 0 now that I have courthouses in most of my cities and am running spy specialists in several as well. Hmmm, stealing Military Science from Shaka in the cheapest city to do so (listed above) would take a lot of espionage points that I don't have. It would be easier to just research the damn thing myself.

Anyway, that's where things stand at the end of round 9. The main thing to decide at this point, I think, is whether we take a military tack now that the UU is almost available, or settle back and focus on getting the UB for the space ship win.

late SE can have good research if you have multiple GP settled in your super-science cities (those with academies).

That mean less lightbulbing (leverage it mostly when a single bulb can be sold multiple time), and being quite wonder happy. Prophets are especially usefull as they give also gold.

This works very fine in warlord, dont know about bts. read obsolete walkthroughs, they are really eye openers. However this must be implemented right from the start.

The other usual strategy is to switch to CE when printing press is in. If you do so, do it one city at a time, it is more efficient.

I had strict SE with good research, but only with philo leader. Again, settling GS is a key when lightbulbing cannot be sold multiple times.

You've got a lot of choices here. Cossacks are awesome, and you've got a lot of choice on who to attack... but Russia's UB is also suited for Space.

How's your culture doing? Maybe you could even go for the cultural.

Timorous? Or did you mean temeritous? Is there an english teacher on the forum?

a military aimed GA sounds awesome then take gahndi out of the competition

RockTheCazbah87 said:

but Russia's UB is also suited for Space.

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Yes, but to get any real benefit out of the Research institute over Laboratories (especially with them being pushed back) Sisiutil needs to beeline straight for superconductors.