ALC Game 18, Take 2: Spain/Isabella

Postmortem

We'll start with some graphs, 'cause they're always fun. Here's the score graph for the whole game:



Gilgamesh was pretty even with me, right up to about the point where I booted Augustus off of my continent. That's when I really seemed to take the game in hand.

GNP (Gold):



I don't find this chart quite as informative as many of the others, but I included it to be thorough.

Manufactured Goods (Production):



This one is a little more informative. You can see where I had two golden ages. You can also see, more or less, where I finished researching Railroad (just after the first golden age) and where I built the Three Gorges Dam (just after the second one).

Power for the whole game:



And for the last 50 turns:



Those two charts really summarize what happened. I focused on military, pure and simple. I quickly surpassed Gilgamesh and Sury couldn't keep up.

Demographics:



As usual, I'm #1 in everything... except approval rate and life expectancy! Well, when you're sending so many of your citizens off to be cannon fodder, that's to be expected. :lol:

Top 5 Cities/Wonders:



Nice to see Madrid at the top of the list, and three more Spanish cities rounding out the top 5.

Statistics:



And, finally, the score:



Not my best score ever, but very respectable. (For the trainspotters out there, it's my 5th-highest ALC score--right after the one from the first Isabella game, which is at #4!)

I probably could have achieved a higher score, but I didn't start warring until relatively late in the game. That gave me more of a chance to highlight Spain's unique building, which was one of the goals of this second Spain game.

The Citadel is a very powerful building; combined with Spiritual Isabella's ability to change civics without penalty, it can be used to build several very powerful siege weapons--mostly Trebuchets, given the era. I recommend pursuing the techs as I did, that is, going after Engineering earlier than normal--in my case, before Civil Service. I also should have delayed Economics longer than I did. It's possible to be using the Citadels to produce highly-promoted Cannons as well, something I missed out on. The BtS espionage feature could be leveraged to give you a shot at Economics' free GM, or you could just let it go in a Spain game.

The Spanish UU is less impressive than its UB, but is still useful. Given its rather awkward place on the tech tree, there's no way it could be up there with Praetorians, Immortals, and War Chariots, or even Cossacks. The life span of Conquistadors/Cuirrasiers is just too short. It was difficult in this game to bee-line to Engineering and to Military Tradition. The map made Astronomy and Chemistry more attractive techs than Nationalism, and indeed, Sury wound up beating me to the Taj Mahal.

I would have liked to have given Conquistadors a spin back when they replaced Knights; I wish they still did. Knights are a great unit, and as Conquistadors I'm sure they were even better. As it is, the UB practically makes Spain's siege weapons into its UUs. They certainly make a bigger difference to the game. In fact, I'd attribute much of the win to them. I was able to sweep Rome aside with relative ease thanks to those CRIII Trebuchets.

While the first Spain game achieved a bigger score, using the Apostolic Palace in that way felt cheesy. I read through the changes in the new patch and didn't see anything that changes this, but maybe I missed something. At any rate, I won't be trying to win that way again even if it's still possible. This game felt more like a true Spanish game and win, what with the pursuit and leverage of a "middle" religion (Judaism), frequent civics changes, and the exploitation of the UB and, to a lesser extent, UU. I'm sure Isabella herself is happier with this victory, too.
 
And there he goes, BTS Emperor domination !

Didn't you start ALC having trouble at Vanilla Prince? :D

Yes, that's where these started.

Inevitably, I'll start hearing the "time to move up a level" comments now, even after only one ALC game on Emperor!

Seriously, though, I won't attempt Immortal for awhile. BtS seemed to "downgrade" the AI a bit because they emphasized espionage and teched more slowly as a result. It looks as though the new patch--which will be in place for the next ALC--may fix that. We'll certainly find out.

Speaking of which, the first ALC played as a BtS leader is coming up: Gilgamesh of Sumer, my whipping boy from the latter half of this game, is next!
 
Under 3.13, you can no longer hold an AP vote to win a diplomatic victory if you have enough votes to win yourself. I believe this change applies to the UN as well. So no more cheesy AP win or backdoor domination wins.
 
Great job, and thanks again for letting us all peer over your shoulder in these games.

While the first Spain game achieved a bigger score, using the Apostolic Palace in that way felt cheesy. I read through the changes in the new patch and didn't see anything that changes this, but maybe I missed something. .

The patch changes it so that if you have enough votes to win by yourself, then you won't get the option to propose a diplomatic victory, either by AP or UN. I'm not sure that's the best way to handle it, but that's what they did. At least it's better than removing the glance tab. :(

Zienth
 
All I know, I know from you. Congratulations. I sorta wish you hadn't won so quickly, though. I've never used nukes except in the way you did here: eh, I'm gonna win anyway, whathell. I'm very curious about what a competitive, consequential nuclear war would look like.
 
:clap:

A well taken victory, and a highly entertaining report (as always).

I've got to say, though, that you had some fairly outrageous luck in this game: the free golden age, AC creating Justinian, and Gilga pursuing an ill-advised culture victory - all came at opportune moments. Still, what matters is that you took full advantage of the breaks you got. :goodjob:
 
Congrats on the win Sis. I wish I could contribute more, I just don't have the expertise that the rest of these guys do :lol:

but again, well done. Roll on Gilgamesh!
 
Congratulations! Was a much better game this time around. :)
 
Yay! Go Sisutil!
If you haven't made up your mind for next ALC (though you probably have), I suggest using Gilly or Sury. It would be especially interesting to see you combat a high-powered Isabella (hehehehe).

I switched to the last page direct from the forum and found myself looking at the postmortem. I freaked out for a second then checked out the first page to see round 10....
 
All I know, I know from you.

I think I'd still be on warlord if it wasn't for the ALCs - and although I give heaps of credit to all the really good players who have given hoards of advice to Sisuitil over the months and months, I gotta give Sis 100% credit for displaying these games for all the world to see.

By the way, the nuke part in round 10 made me laugh so loud my daughter came downstairs to ask if I was OK.....

Nice win, I'm looking forward to the next one, as always!
 
I was getting spanked on Noble when I started reading the ALCs. I now feel comfortable at Monarch and if I were to improve my Diplo and late war management I could well step up another notch.

On the game:

Nice win Sisiutil :D

So, next is Summeria, isn't it? Have fun with the Vulture Rush (unless protective or heavily focussed on Axemen, your rivals really don't have counter to the Vulture). Superearly courthouses also reinforce said rush and really provide a nice boost to espionage. GW could be considered as reinforcement for this espionage boost as well.

I'll wait for the pregame thread to expand those ideas though.
 
The patch changes it so that if you have enough votes to win by yourself, then you won't get the option to propose a diplomatic victory, either by AP or UN. I'm not sure that's the best way to handle it, but that's what they did. At least it's better than removing the glance tab. :(
I'm really not sure why the just removed the glance tab and didn't replace it with something. Because it was "ugly"? Maybe, but it was useful. Oh well.

The new rules for diplomatic victory should avoid cheesy wins. Maybe not the most elegant way to go about it, but it has the desired result. It will make sure you're committed to a domination win now, since you can't rely on the UN for a back-door diplo win.

For the AP win, I would have changed it so that not only do you have to have your religion in at least one city of all other civs; your religion would have to be the majority religion on the planet. I would have made it so that (a) 50% of the world's population must be following your SR and (b) a majority of the remaining civs must have it as their SR before you can call for an AP diplo win vote. That would be much more challenging and worthy of an early diplo win.
I've got to say, though, that you had some fairly outrageous luck in this game: the free golden age, AC creating Justinian, and Gilga pursuing an ill-advised culture victory - all came at opportune moments. Still, what matters is that you took full advantage of the breaks you got. :goodjob:
This game is always like that. Sometimes you have good luck, sometimes you don't. The biggest stroke of good/bad luck you get is the starting position. Even so, as you say, you have to make the most of the cards you're dealt.
I'm very curious about what a competitive, consequential nuclear war would look like.
I haven't really run into that. Even in the few games where I've used them--the Alexander ALC being an example--I was the only one who had them.

Overall, they're kind of like a combination of a big, powerful siege weapon and a pillager. They're capable of inflicting collateral damage on several units at once, but they don't actually kill anything, IIRC. And they remove tile improvements and inflict fallout. I think they also destroy buildings if they hit a city directly, do they not? They're powerful, but the Civ designers, in every version of the game, have taken care to ensure that they don't unbalance things completely if one player has nukes and no one else does. Frankly, even in games where they've been available--such as this one--I find I'm usually able to win without them.

In terms of being on the receiving end: provided you have Ecology, your Workers are probably pretty idle at this point in the game and therefore have the cycles to clean up fallout and rebuild your tile improvements. It would be trickier if the tiles in question are threatened by enemy units, however. On the military side, you'd need to spread your units out more; I should think a huge stack o' doom would be a prime target for a nuclear strike. Your spies and/or fighters, meanwhile, should focus on depriving the enemy of any and all sources of uranium once they're close to discovering Fission and the Manhattan Project has been built.
 
Well done, Sis. You made that look too easy. I'm not ready for Emperor yet, but I'm slowly moving in that direction thanks to the ALC series.

I'm also glad you gave Izzy a second, "legit" win. Nothing washes away that cheesy taste better than a generous helping of blood :mischief: . I'm sure the girl is happy, except perhaps for that flirtation with free religion.

I'm looking forward to the Gilly game next. I dislike both of his traits, and yet he still feels like a solid leader thanks to his UU and UB.
 
I would have made it so that (a) 50% of the world's population must be following your SR and (b) a majority of the remaining civs must have it as their SR before you can call for an AP diplo win vote.

I agree, that would be a better solution.

But at least it's fixed. If you've read my report on CamH's 'Stalin's Cosmonauts' game, you'll understand why I'm more relieved than most about that. :blush:

This game is always like that. Sometimes you have good luck, sometimes you don't. The biggest stroke of good/bad luck you get is the starting position. Even so, as you say, you have to make the most of the cards you're dealt.

Indeed, and even if you do tend to get the lucky breaks, you can't afford to get complacent - civ seems to have a way of catching you out just when you think you've got it sussed.

The first Peter game, for example: 'Monarch's too easy', sang the peanut gallery (myself included), and then you rolled that tundra-ridden wasteland of a start... :cry:
 
One question that I had earlier, and might as well ask now, is this: with all those XPs for Siege units, were you ever tempted to vary the promotions a little? I'm thinking of having a few Trebuchets with CR1 and Barrage 2 to speed things up after all the defenders have been damaged, or using a Drill 3 Treb first to see if it made any difference in the survival rate. (I'm thinking that it might be time for more Accuracy promotions, but that's for another time and place.) Or is there no room to get cute once you get past Prince?

It's been a while, but from what I can remember from checking the early saves with the WB, the AIs were cranking out Workers at a reasonable pace early in the game, something that was a noticeable problem earlier in the BtS games. Not sure if it was the patch or the level, but it meant the AI wasn't saddled with poorly developed cities for the first half of the game.

Congrats on the win. Any opinion yet on whether you'll use the official or unofficial 3.13 patch? The black backgrounds for diplomacy and Wonder movies are surprising at first, but I got used to it right away. The half game I played last night with the official patch was much, much better in many ways, and should make the next game a tad more challenging.
 
The black backgrounds for diplomacy and Wonder movies are surprising at first, but I got used to it right away.

Black backgrounds? I'm not seeing that and I'm playing BTS 3.13. Admittedly I did have to uninstall/reinstall but that was because the patch changed the assets in warlords and vanilla which broke games with protected assets. :aargh:
 
I would have loved to see this game if gilgamesh had decided to go for space or something besides cultural. anyway, great game. much better than i did my first time on emperor ;)
 
so are you going to also use bhuric's Unofficial Patch in the next game?

I heard the 3.13 Patch has a couple of bugs, like the graphical glitch in the city build menu where they don't tell you how much culture a building will provide, AI trading resources where they want 5 of your resources for 1 of their health/happy resources, Spies being kicked out of the opposing Civ territory after DOW.
 
Good game Sisiutil. Well played and a sound demonstration of the power of the Spanish UB. Got the feeling though that the starting position really didn't lend itself to a real Emperor challenge. Maybe next time there won't be a gold resource in the capital's fat hex. ;)
 
Sisiutil, I noticed that a lot of your cities have few (if any) cottages. What are your ideas behind city specialization and tile improvement, and is that due to your chosen victory condition of domination?
 
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