I agree that anybody who defines now as "late" has lost the game.
Stop flaming or I'll have to call the firebrigade...
ALC Game #22 Take 2: Arabs/Saladin
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
I agree that anybody who defines now as "late" has lost the game.
Stop flaming or I'll have to call the firebrigade...
vanatteveldt
Emperor
I disagree. I think that the gold from overflow was created to make sure you can build up 'infinite' overflow building cheap units and then create a wonder or all spaceship parts in one turn each. Using it in pre-currency times to build wealth is tricky, but acceptable. I think it is a clear bug that the multiplied hammers aren't "downmultiplied" the way they are for normal overflow to the next building. Imho, the 100 surplus overflow should give -at most- 100 gold.
I agree in that this is an obvious bug. Any overflow hammers should always go to the next build, or to build gold/research/culture. I do not see the point in converting any overflow to gold. This just does not have any real-life counterpart. All cities build one thing, then upon completion, start building the next build. I cannot fathom why a protective/aggressive/whatever leader should benefit from cheap buildings in this way. Also the overflow of leader trait multipliers and stone/marble should not go to next builds (unless they also use stone/marble/copper/gold). That is just a plain stupid idea. Duh!
vicawoo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 3,226
Sensible, but then industrious with special resource still gets a 2.5x hammers to gold conversion whereas you kick protective in the teeth more. This might even give protective an identity: archer REX till you bleed, but forest economy to monarchy/whatever.
pigswill
fly (one day)
IMO an exploit is deliberately making use of a bug to obtain an advantage that wouldn't exist if the bug wasn't there. Double gold refund from a part built wonder using stone or marble is another aspect of the same bug.
r_rolo1
King of myself
The overflow of leader trait multipliers does not go to next builds since Vanilla days....
I think that this arouses from 3 things:
- Civ IV does not loses overflow.... it was a big
issue in Civ III. Restoring it would increase MM again ( I do remember sourly the research MM that he had to do in those days 
)
-Hammer overflow is capped ,to avoid things like whipping 20 times to the next wonder while you still have 1 hammer in your current build ( to avoid
wonder penalty ). This, combined with the first item, makes that the excess hammers must go somewhere... Firaxis choosed gold
- In game 1 hammer = 3 gold ( see US )... this means that when you convert hammers to gold, it gets the same relation that is used in reverse to penalize US rush buy
This is known for at least a year ( I remember the first discussions of this... ) and since Firaxis didn't fixed it in BtS, I assume that or they didn't cared or it was simply too complicated to fix without messing the rest of the game....
I think that this arouses from 3 things:
- Civ IV does not loses overflow.... it was a big
issue in Civ III. Restoring it would increase MM again ( I do remember sourly the research MM that he had to do in those days )-Hammer overflow is capped ,to avoid things like whipping 20 times to the next wonder while you still have 1 hammer in your current build ( to avoid
wonder penalty ). This, combined with the first item, makes that the excess hammers must go somewhere... Firaxis choosed gold- In game 1 hammer = 3 gold ( see US )... this means that when you convert hammers to gold, it gets the same relation that is used in reverse to penalize US rush buy
This is known for at least a year ( I remember the first discussions of this... ) and since Firaxis didn't fixed it in BtS, I assume that or they didn't cared or it was simply too complicated to fix without messing the rest of the game....
Airefuego
King
It is an excellent thing that overflow is not wasted. Whether overflow to gold should benefit from stone bonuses etc is a different matter.
But in any case, whipping to get gold from the overflow is effectively selling your people into slavery... (instead of regular whipping, which is killing them through slavery) ... which seems reasonable enough to me!
But in any case, whipping to get gold from the overflow is effectively selling your people into slavery... (instead of regular whipping, which is killing them through slavery) ... which seems reasonable enough to me!
That's not the same thing though. Why? For everyone without stone & protective, the conversion rate is 1 hammer to 1 gold (see Wealth, Building). Why should only Protective & stone civs get the reverse penalty conversion?
slaze
Deity
Cause they're the only ones with the multipliers. Although, i suspect you could do the same thing with Freddy's assembly plants.
Lord Chambers
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2001
- Messages
- 1,004
Because protective leaders are disadvantaged and whip overflow is like a warm bowl of soup and a stale biscuit.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
Well "misplaced multipliers" could come in three areas
1. Overflow hammers * bug fixed
2. Overflow gold[overflow gold needed to stop "Chariot abuse".. repeat build chariots to build up an infinite level of overflow hammers] * still buggy
3. Failed Wonder * still buggy
Given that "Failed Wonder" is a consolation (and limited to Wonders) you probably shouldn't "fix" it
Given that Overflow Gold Does allow an exploit, and its really only with buildings/units it probably Should be fixed
1. Overflow hammers * bug fixed
2. Overflow gold[overflow gold needed to stop "Chariot abuse".. repeat build chariots to build up an infinite level of overflow hammers] * still buggy
3. Failed Wonder * still buggy
Given that "Failed Wonder" is a consolation (and limited to Wonders) you probably shouldn't "fix" it
Given that Overflow Gold Does allow an exploit, and its really only with buildings/units it probably Should be fixed
r_rolo1
King of myself
Agg barracks
Cre libraries and theaters
....
Basically everything that is halved costs by resources or traits can be used for hammer overflow . Pro walls get both and it is where it shows more ( and considering that Walls are cheap and early ....)
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
It is an excellent thing that overflow is not wasted. Whether overflow to gold should benefit from stone bonuses etc is a different matter.
But in any case, whipping to get gold from the overflow is effectively selling your people into slavery... (instead of regular whipping, which is killing them through slavery) ... which seems reasonable enough to me!
Ah-ha! Now that we see there's a (thoroughly morally reprehensible) historical analogy for it, I'm more comfortable with it.
Now that you mention it, I think there should be an option for that as part of the Slavery civic--an option to sell population for gold rather than kill them for hammers. Hey, at least they're still alive...
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
And that they're one of the few non-wonder buildings accelerated by a resource (stone).
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
What it all boils down to in my view is that it gives an incentive to use protective for something potentially worthwhile since it's defined as the worst trait by the majority anyhow.
CIV is a non-simulation game and as such is inherently unrealistic, you can come up with any number of RP explanations of where that gold is coming from if it makes you feel better about it.
CIV is a non-simulation game and as such is inherently unrealistic, you can come up with any number of RP explanations of where that gold is coming from if it makes you feel better about it.
Speaking of gold; one of the weirdest things happened to me in an offline game. I was playing the Khmers on noble/marathon and was building the Pyramids for 30+ turns in city #2, when I decided that it would take forever to finish. So I changed the production to a courthouse and put the capital to build the pyramids instead. Several turns later I was 20+ turns from finishing the pyramids, when an AI completed it. The next turn I got 1000+ gold from both cities! 
And two corresponding messages. Weird, weird, weird....
And two corresponding messages. Weird, weird, weird....
carl corey
Deity
Why is that weird? You get money for the production spent on the Pyramid. If you start building it in several cities, you get money from all of them.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
I apologize for the delay, but I'm having a very stressful week at work, doing something directly with/for our company president, which is something I almost never do (and, I'm discovering, for a very good reason). It's not left me in a frame of mind where I'm willing to do something else that will be closely scrutinized by other people at the end of the day. 
This thing should be done by the weekend, though, and then I can get back to playing and posting the game.
This thing should be done by the weekend, though, and then I can get back to playing and posting the game.Peluin
Chieftain
Sounds like an all-around blast. Take your time, but hurry up! And good luck
Airefuego
King
No stress
