Virote's Ancient Greek Scenario - Public Alpha

Virote_Considon said:

Maybe at the end of hell, there can be a flag unit, which can be captured by all factions, and taken to a VPL. Of course, you'd have to face many challenges to be able to do this!
Anyone got any further ideas that they'll feel will be fun to add in here?

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What about making the underworld with vulcanoe-terrain, skipped smolder graphics and replacing the lava-graphics by something really terrible, place a spot for a city at the end combined with a single strategig resource that allows to produce some special units. But the way for those units back from the underworld is dangerous cause of the "killing" vulcanoe-terrain where death comes without warning (as the smolder graphics are skipped)?

Thanks for the comments, guys!

Civinator said:

What about making the underworld with vulcanoe-terrain, skipped smolder graphics and replacing the lava-graphics by something really terrible, place a spot for a city at the end combined with a single strategig resource that allows to produce some special units. But the way for those units back from the underworld is dangerous cause of the "killing" vulcanoe-terrain where death comes without warning (as the smolder graphics are skipped)?

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Some interesting ideas

I think what I'm going to use is a mixture of Volcano and Marsh tiles. Volcanoes can only be passed by Hero units (and a select few others), and Marshes will be passable to all. What this will mean in gameplay terms is that only heroes (and of course the select few others) will be able to get in or out. However, inside the underworld will be ghost, monsters, etc. who can move around to attack you. This will be along side the ones you have to fight in order to capture the "prizes" of the underworld.

I don't think I'm going to add any more strategic resources - I'm already fairly thin on the ground as-is with possible strategic resources.

With only volcanoe-terrain every step on that terrain can be deadly and unpredictable if you don´t have any warning smolder graphics. The normal monsters attack additionally until they are all killed. The threat from the vulcanoe-terrain will stay forever in the game

I think the one problem with that is that when you've had to fight through hell and high water (well, hell, at any rate), it would be a bit disheartening to then lose whatever you've just captured due to a random act of nature! Although the same probably could be said about leaving whichever room you've just entered only to find that you're being besieged by a hoard of monsters

In any case, I'll think about it

The underworld is a deadly place for mortal people., especially when the vulcanoe eruption graphics are chnaged with the attack-graphics of a cruel monster.

It'd be awesome to get some Cerberus graphics to "guard" the underworld in such a way!

Cerberus, yes this would be a highlight if he can operate in such a way.

I'm very interested to see what you do with the underworld. with me also working on a Hollow Earth scenario I'm sure we'll both be riffing off of each other's creativity.

I had another thought on an Indian victory. Apart from ending Alexander's vacation a little early, India's primary interaction with the Mediterranean civs was through trade. Maybe you can develop a victory related to the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea. Victory points through flag units or locations, maybe resources needed to build a wonder or SS. Such a victory would have a basis in Hellenic culture and at the same time be suitable for Egypt, India, & other barbarians.

With the above in mind, how about letting India join the Golden Fleece/"Colony" race VC? Obviously, they'd be more focused on getting the Colony founded (it will probably be near impossible for them to get to the GF in time for the scenario's end!)

Here's the update on the underworld. It's made of LM Mountains (impassable), Volcanoes (only passable by a select few units, look a lot like the mountains), and Marshy "underworld" terrain (technically passable by all, but of course only the units who can navigate through the volcanoes will be able to get to it). Originally, it was a maze, but since I've opened up two "large" rooms, which will contain some "roaming" monsters. If really needed, I can also extend the underworld as far as the Western edge of the map. Here's the SS:



Also, I've been thinking of making an equivalent in the Indian ocean, for the more "Eastern" civs to get to, like India, Ethiopia, Egypt, etc., basically because the chances of them getting anywhere in the European underworld is next to nil. Anyone have any ideas of what it'll could look like, what could go there, etc? I really want to go to town on these underworlds, make them a fun novelty to play with!


EDIT: Well, I've been having fun today, by extending the underworld to the edge. After a long journey (probably well after the game has ended), you'll be able to reach either the Elysian Fields, or Tartarus.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages, and both routes require you get through a large chunk of volcano. In the Elysian fields, you can capture Settlers, and can generally build a great place. There will also be a wealth of heroes here, and almost no enemies, so it's the "easy" route. Tartarus, on the other hand will eventually give you the ability to capture and use Titans! These will be the most powerful units in the game! However, perils await - Tartarus is pretty much a labyrinth of volcanoes, all ready to go off at any moment! Furthermore, Tartarus is chock-full of enemies - and they can traverse volcanoes, which allows them to strike anywhere, even the Elysian fields and outside the underworld! So, another of the Tartarus' routes advantages will be that you can attempt to try to make the entire world a safer place!

To do this, I've had to axe most of the British Isles, although a tiny corner (pretty much just Cornwall) is still present, as from what I've read, Cornwall with its tin was a pretty important place as far as ancient trading was concerned.

Anyway, here's a screenshot. As you can see, it's going to be hard navigating where the routes actually are in Tartarus!:

Following with interest Virote. Looks quite promising.

looking great! keep it going! and im exhausted now but i have an idea for india and the "underworld"... think buddha. ill continue tomorrow.

Right, to be honest, I haven't worked on this scenario much since March. Part of the reason was that the 256 improvement limit was hovering over me like a fly; either the entire first era would have to have been without improvements, or the improvements throughout the rest of the tech tree would have to be even more strained than they already are! And I couldn't really see how I could go any further with the project with that cursed limit in the way! In truth, I couldn't even think of this project without it getting me down.

Recently, I started thinking of this scenario again. I decided that I couldn't abandon it; this is my pet project. So, in true Virote fashion, I've slapped together a makeshift plan to try and get around this.

1. The Indian civ won't get its own full tech tree. They will instead be put in the tech tree which tries to generate "tribute" to win, along side civs such as Persia, Babylon and Egypt. They will have some flavoured techs and their own full unit line, but they won't have nearly as many unique improvements and wonders as they did have before. It was a toss-up between putting them in this tech tree, and putting them in the Trade-based tech tree. In the end, I decided they'd fit in with the civs in this tech tree better.

2. Macedonia and Epirus will be stripped of their own full tech tree, and placed in the Peloponnesian tree. However, they won't be able to build the League itself (and thus won't be able to partake in this trees' victory condition), but to compensate, they will be able to build some separate improvements and wonders, and their late-game units will be much better, hopefully just in time to go on a rampage throughout Persia!

This in total (unless I've added more which I'm not aware of beforehand) frees up 32 improvements and wonders for the first era, the bulk of which will probably go to Mycenae and Troy (who'll both "merge" into the Peloponnesian tree in era 2, and they themselves won't be able to partake in the League victory)

I'm still going to focus my efforts on getting Africa during the Cold War and Industrial Espionage released as alphas before I return my focus on this scenario, but at least you can be assured that this scenario is still on the agenda, somewhere.

Thoughts on the tech tree mergers?

Virote_Considon said:

It'd be awesome to get some Cerberus graphics to "guard" the underworld in such a way!

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I've converted some Cerberus graphics to a Civ 3 unit recently. I will post them up in a couple months most likely (actually I am hoping to finish my mod before Christmas, and to post graphics then), just to let you know if you were looking for something to use.

Virote_Considon said:

Part of the reason was that the 256 improvement limit was hovering over me like a fly!

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I thought the limit was up'd to 512 for Conquests... ?

Tom

tom2050 said:

I've converted some Cerberus graphics to a Civ 3 unit recently. I will post them up in a couple months most likely (actually I am hoping to finish my mod before Christmas, and to post graphics then), just to let you know if you were looking for something to use.

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Awesome! It'll fit perfectly!

tom2050 said:

I thought the limit was up'd to 512 for Conquests... ?

Tom

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No, that was cities (the limit of which has now been axed). Improvements/Wonders remains at the ridiculously low 256, and there's a major bug when you add more than that, which is sort of like the resource overflow bug.

Virote_Considon said:

Awesome! It'll fit perfectly!



No, that was cities (the limit of which has now been axed). Improvements/Wonders remains at the ridiculously low 256, and there's a major bug when you add more than that, which is sort of like the resource overflow bug.

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I added a preview above so you can see it, the flames it brustles up give it a 'I'm straight from the underworld' feel. I will have to count how many improvements I have, I was under the impression it was 512, but must have been thinking of the city limit. I am probably clost to the limit myself.

Tom

Was this scenario put on the scrapheap ?

This is still in this Alpha state, and this fellow thread says after XMas brake. But that was 1 year ago if I got it correctly.

So is still work being done on this ?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10181620&postcount=334

It's not on the scrapheap, though things go slowly now; I'm in my last year of university at the moment.

And wow, that was literally 1 year ago, almost to the exact minute

I've come across this topic by accident. I can see that nothing has changed for a long time; does it mean the end of this project? I know that „HEGEMON” has recently dominated the topic of ancient Greece, but I'm not sure if it's exhausted it. I'm definitely ready to help content-wise.

I wanted to do a Greater Greece (Sicily and Southern Italy) scenario but until term ended (very recently) I was too swamped to do anything.

Yeah, finish what you started Virote

As PiotrG said, HEGEMON left much of the topical riches of Ancient Greece untouched (though not that much of course ) The mythical world being the most obvious one. So, if you're still modding, I suggest you de-complicate the project so it becomes less of a beast to realise, then add the niceness in later.