Maciavelli Macabre - Mod for RoM

Foreword

Welcome to my thread - for a mod I am developing for my favourite mod Rise of Mankind. Zapp is a genuine artist and the time he has spent on RoM is a testimony to game modding and I am deeply grateful for the experiences I've enjoyed at his behest.

Some of you may know me from the Civic's Discussion Thread, for RoM, which have mostly been implemented into 2.62 and hopefully even more so into 2.7 and the new graphic buttons I produced. Likewise any artwork produced for this mod, I would invite Zapp and other mod makers to use at will.

Machiavelli Macabre

Taking as its basis realpolitik, cyncism, and the darker elements of humanity, this mod will seek to be realistic and adult, in its reflection of politics, economics, social and cultural progress. It will feature new artwork, and hopefully lend the player a more 'emotional' and moral experience as they cultivate their civilisation.

Features

The following are features that I intend to work on, I will invite cooperation with other artists and coders where appropriate and will deeply appreciate it.

1. Civics
The governing ideologies will have a special emphasis - forming a much more influential backbone to the cultural/political/social sphere of a players civilisation. In practical terms, the changes will be more dramatic, with various unique elements coming with each choice, including events.

2. Economics
Where possible, I wish to revamp the system of economics from the ground up, to reduce abstract bonuses, and have them dependent on factors/resources that exist within the civilization. In this way civilization economies will be built on a foundation of pre-existing resources/markets rathan than the continuation of abstract bonues and percentages. Economic specialisation will feature heavily through the civic economic choices.

3. Social
Religious unrest, intolerance, and other issues, will be present as a moral challenge (rpg) style moral challenge for the player. Featuring religious schism, and opposing ideological elements within society.

4. Military
A revamped promotion system, and unit titling, to provide a more 'strategic' impression of a civilisations military assets.

5. Research
I would seek to revamp and add to the research tree - with expansions to certain era's, and how i would percieve (in consultation with Futurists) a 'realistic' depiction of the future in its available units and buildings. (No Red Alert III)

In all this mod may be the choice for that player seeking a grim, adult, more emotional challenge, with a more mature theme. It will be a long term project, but i intend to work in a modular fashion, inviting discussion and debate as we work along, and releasing those modules (as mini mods) to finally be joined together in a complete release.

If you have questions ask away. Academic discussion is welcome

lol - and yes before you ask that includes new diplomatic speech and no 3d leader heads haha.

Looking forward to it.

Cheers mate - i mean as you can imagine this ones a long burner

Lawrie said:

5. Research
I would seek to revamp and add to the research tree - with expansions to certain era's, and how i would percieve (in consultation with Futurists) a 'realistic' depiction of the future in its available units and buildings. (No Red Alert III)

Click to expand...

I hope my future era techs in v2.7 will be close to what you've been thinking to add. I'm trying to make it bit more realistic this time and most of the techs I'm adding are in the 'plausible' category and some have existing prototypes already. You'll see them in the next v2.7 test version. I'm sure there will be lots of discussion about the future techs in the next couple months

Since the civic screen is now scrolling vertically, there's much more freedom how to modify them and there's no more limit on how many categories we can have...

Anyway, just wanted to wish you good luck with those modules - I know it can be a pain to try to make some things work in Civ 4 and if you need help with something, don't hesitate to ask from me

Thanks Zapp much appreciated mate - and you know if theres anything i can do, any resources I make etc that is of use - feel free to use anything (obviously) since you are so generous to all of us

I'll just add zapp that RoM modern research tree will be done way before we get round to this Rom mod's version, so ill definately get involved in Rom discussions too etc!

I'm hoping that it will be a series of modules so that a player may choose which parts of it to implement. I'm not as keen on moral and emotional roleplay as I am interested in civics that actually give you play style choices. If I want to be a Marxist/fascist, I want that to have definite bonuses as well as draw backs so that it is at least playable, for instance. (Perhaps hammer bonuses to make up for loss of commerce?) That would be an interesting choice then. I would like to see it possible to base your economy on hammers and convert that into research for another interesting choice... or convert happiness into economy. Just some ideas - I'd love to see a player able to specialize a city for any of the "resources" (hammers, commerce, culture, happiness) and be able to convert those into research, economy, units and buildings. Then you could use a lower population city in a hilly region to generate some real benefits.

Also it would be very cool to be able to change the basis for the score on the scoreboard, which is heavily weighted towards population. A better choice would be more rounded, population, land mass, research, overall production, overall culture and happiness somehow? Just some thoughts, not even sure if this is the place to mention them.

Well sure, then this mod might not be so much for you Carwyn hehe - its not really a 'gameplay' mod than it is a work of what i hope is 'realistic expressionism' - how fancy i know hehe.

It may not even be the hardest mod to 'cheat' as it were, if you were to play the mechanics of the new systems ill end up devising/redesigning.

It's more of a slight roleplayish - depressing mod. In fact thats the essence of pc gaming really. hehe - too difficult and mildly alienating hehe.

I'm definately not interested in any gameplay novelty choices unless they were tied to at least 2 pages of academic argument made by Big Heb supported with relevant essay type references

This sounds like it will be a blast to make. Where shall we all start?

In case of any gameplay novelty ideas, I'll refute with a 3 page case study.


Here are some of my basic ideas of some additional changes that can be discussed.

- New corporations. If it is legally possible to use actual company names (e.g. Standard Oil, General Electric, ETC.), doing that would add a lot of flavor to the game. Otherwise, more corporations based on successful historical corporations would give corporations more meaning in the game.

- New techs. I made a new tech tree a while back. Taking from that list, along with other tech ideas, and seeing where they can fit into zapp's excellent pre-existing tech tree could potentially provide a smoother transition between ages and provide more historical flavor.

- Many more leaders. Since we aren't using 3d leaderheads, we have infinite possibilities for leaders to include in the game. If possible, as many as 5-7 leaders per civilization would be quite impressive. Of course, new traits would also be necessary in order to compensate, and some leaders would definitely have to share the same traits (though only if the same traits fit for both leaders). Also, one should be reserved for modern-day rulers (if the civilization still exists).

Examples for New Leaders:
America: Jefferson, Jackson, Wilson, Obama
Russia: Ivan III, Lenin, Trotsky, Putin
Britain: Cogidubnus/Agricola (Roman Britain), Henry VIII, Cromwell, Brown
Rome: Romulus (Roman Kingdom), Cicero (Roman Republic), Constantine (late Empire)
Rome (if used as Italy): Cicero (Roman Republic), de Medici (Renaissance, influenced heavily by Machiavelli), Mussolini, Napolitano
China: Wu (Han), Wu Zetian (Tang), Kangxi (Qing)
ETC.

- Great literary works. A new category for "wonders" could be made to produce great literary works, which would give more bonuses than a building but less than wonders. This would provide a lot of historical flavor to the game and I think would add to that Machiavellian feel.

Hmm good point where to start - those ideas sound good Heb for sure.

I guess the best place to start is with the economics - including terrain values, and the bonuses provided by terrain improvements, buildings, projects, national wonders and wonders.

I think there has to be a philosophical difference that these projects should represent - you know what i mean? Ie i dont think they should share such a similar / converged set of bonuses - but should be more distinct in unique in what bonuses they provide within their categories.

But yes, the ecomomics are the first stop I reckon As that will provide us our foundation! I er hope!

Lawrie said:

Foreword1. Civics
The governing ideologies will have a special emphasis - forming a much more influential backbone to the cultural/political/social sphere of a players civilisation. In practical terms, the changes will be more dramatic, with various unique elements coming with each choice, including events.

Click to expand...

Dramatic (game changing) random event ideas with civics:
-Coup (Fascism, Communism, Despotism): Increases instability under Revolutions mod (high likelihood of having to fight rebel forces). Spy missions may cause this event as well.
-House Wars (Monarchy, Patrician, Nobility): Increases instability under Revolutions mod (high likelihood of having to fight rebel forces). Risk of a war with an established nation as well.
-Currency Crisis (Regulated): Massive loss of gold per turn for a couple of turns, which may cause units to go on strike and increase in instability.
-False Prophet (Divine Cult, Prophets, Free Church, Intolerant): Increases instability under Revolutions, not to the point of civil war, but enough to force bribes.
-Sovereignty Movement (Federal, Vassalage): A number of cities in an area demand independence under Revolutions mod. Demand refusal leads to civil war.
-Bureaucracy Modernization (Bureaucracy): Every age up results in one turn of anarchy due to the need to modernize the bureaucracy.

2. Economics
Where possible, I wish to revamp the system of economics from the ground up, to reduce abstract bonuses, and have them dependent on factors/resources that exist within the civilization. In this way civilization economies will be built on a foundation of pre-existing resources/markets rathan than the continuation of abstract bonues and percentages. Economic specialisation will feature heavily through the civic economic choices.

Click to expand...

Possible use for resource spamming is needing X amount of a resource to produce X buildings/units. One source of Iron should not be enough for 10 Steel Mills and 20 Frigates, and 50 Mailed Knights. Maybe double bonuses for luxury and health resources if you control a percentage greater or equal to your population (i.e. double bonus for wheat if you control 50% of world wheat production with 20& of the world population.). This should result in imperial wars, colonial resource extraction, and an ecological limit on the power of nations..

Also, a better inflation rate. No specific ideas, I am just tired of seeing 30% inflation on the Financial Adviser screen when I am running balanced budgets.

Hello,

There is a new mod in Modpacks forum thread that has to do with similar concepts as your prospective modmod do. I think you may benefit from analyzing it and discussing the mod with the modder, then customizing some of stuff from it for RoM base and make your final mod?

I personally agree that Civ4 tends to be wimpy in comparison to real world politics.

Yep - thanks for the heads os79, I mean i have a cynical view of world politics, but the utmost respect for human spirit.

You see a computer game is like a film, a novel, an expression of art - an interactive experience is its only seperation from the passive works of art already appreciated for their statements about all manners of life.

Why should a game or a mod for a game be any different for the hours of experience put in. Zapp, has put hundreds of man hours into his mod, and in doing so has cultivated a unique perspective on humanity and civilization. The choices of what to include, what not too, in for example the civics, or the the prophesised future of the human race ala its futuristic research choices, are all discretionary on his part.

So whether wimpy or not, the real benefit is ability of any player, to enjoy the unique interpretations of this open game platform, of all the individuals who so kindly contribute their time to making mods or games In this case, this mod is but of one general interpretation, of my own, and those who would like to see a closer simulation of the transcendent spirit over the pragmatism of the real politik, in all its macabre reality.

Oh and if you could post a link os79

Lawrie said:

Oh and if you could post a link os79

Click to expand...

Here it is...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=322407