Dirk1302
Deity
Nothing to gain never tells me that much. They tell you that also when a civ isn't sofar away sometimes. And then some 10 turns later they're suddenly willing to turn on that civ.
Dirk's deity game pt II
- Thread starter Dirk1302
- Start date
The Rook
King
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 769
They never tell me that.
It's all about power rating then innit?
This is my understanding too. I think you can always bribe a civ to war if the target is eligible (no obligatory peace treaties), whilst power and attitude checks are passed. If the target is too far it may just be a phony war. I believe "nothing to gain" just means the target is currently too powerful, but not powerful enough to "fear their military might".
Dirk1302
Deity
Next round to writing.
Goal is to settle E and blocking Han. There's another advantage in settling E that'll become apparent this set, starting writing without stopping for pottery is clearly best. My worker begins chopping the forested hill 2e from capital.I begin building a chariot in the capital but i direct the chop to a second worker and finish him. My first worker doesn't begin mining 2E of capital immediately. I had already one turn into a road on this hill there and i finish the road and begin roading towards my second city. With help of the second worker i have this road up in no time and i finish mining the hill just before the city grows to 5.
Our brave warrior in the south survives another attack.
c1 chariots apparently have 86% chance + some residual retreat odds against archers in the open.
SB founds judaism and Han converts same turn, what a great development, Han is sure to go for Liz now if he feels the war itch
We found Akkad at E.
Some archers come out of the north western fog
They're dealt with by 2 chariots, i sacrifice a cover warrior in the woods to at least hurt the healthy one.
I make the rice clam deal with Han, health is not yet an issue but i'd like to cement this deal before Han trades clam way to someone else.
Our warrior finds English borders. Don't think English next city'll threaten gems and banana next. Somehwat earlier Liz asked me to open borders, so she has writing, good chance she'll have alpha soon.
Writing in
I immediately make this deal with Han. It wasn't mentioned yet but after connecting the 2 cities it's only 1 road to connect with Han for pretty early +2 trade routes in both cities.
Relations between Liz and Han are deteriorating nicely.
Our cities
5 turns to our next settler but 2 turns will be shaved off by a forest chop from the worker near capital. I might use it to block the second southern pass. Another city in the far southeast and Liz would be blocked too. This would block an enormous chunk of land probably enough to win peacefully.It won't cut too much into maintenance since these cities'll probably get routes with Han as well. Haven't looked too deeply into it yet though.
I set slider to 0% ftm but if i'm going to settle very aggressively in the south i should research mysticism for quick monuments now. If i proceed more cautiously i could go for some more workers and keep chopping libraries. Don't need pottery at all for now.
Akkad'll have his library in ~10 turns. 7 turns to generate 21 hammers, 1 turn to convert to slavery, 1 to whip and finish chops. So in 15 turns we'll pop borders, not so far from my initial estimate. We'll be near size 2 after the whip. Depends when Han pops borders there how soon we'll be able to grow to 3 and run scientists, probably ~15 turns = around 1000 bc also as expected. first gs 600 bc isn't bad combined with aggressive expansion. Only one fp needs to be farmed to run the 2 scientists so maybe we can run them even sooner.
SB's borders found.Some nice land in the north western corner, we may lose clam there to SB as we won't settle here for some time.
Goal is to settle E and blocking Han. There's another advantage in settling E that'll become apparent this set, starting writing without stopping for pottery is clearly best. My worker begins chopping the forested hill 2e from capital.I begin building a chariot in the capital but i direct the chop to a second worker and finish him. My first worker doesn't begin mining 2E of capital immediately. I had already one turn into a road on this hill there and i finish the road and begin roading towards my second city. With help of the second worker i have this road up in no time and i finish mining the hill just before the city grows to 5.
Our brave warrior in the south survives another attack.
c1 chariots apparently have 86% chance + some residual retreat odds against archers in the open.
SB founds judaism and Han converts same turn, what a great development, Han is sure to go for Liz now if he feels the war itch
We found Akkad at E.
Some archers come out of the north western fog
They're dealt with by 2 chariots, i sacrifice a cover warrior in the woods to at least hurt the healthy one.
I make the rice clam deal with Han, health is not yet an issue but i'd like to cement this deal before Han trades clam way to someone else.
Our warrior finds English borders. Don't think English next city'll threaten gems and banana next. Somehwat earlier Liz asked me to open borders, so she has writing, good chance she'll have alpha soon.
Writing in
I immediately make this deal with Han. It wasn't mentioned yet but after connecting the 2 cities it's only 1 road to connect with Han for pretty early +2 trade routes in both cities.
Relations between Liz and Han are deteriorating nicely.
Our cities
5 turns to our next settler but 2 turns will be shaved off by a forest chop from the worker near capital. I might use it to block the second southern pass. Another city in the far southeast and Liz would be blocked too. This would block an enormous chunk of land probably enough to win peacefully.It won't cut too much into maintenance since these cities'll probably get routes with Han as well. Haven't looked too deeply into it yet though.
I set slider to 0% ftm but if i'm going to settle very aggressively in the south i should research mysticism for quick monuments now. If i proceed more cautiously i could go for some more workers and keep chopping libraries. Don't need pottery at all for now.
Akkad'll have his library in ~10 turns. 7 turns to generate 21 hammers, 1 turn to convert to slavery, 1 to whip and finish chops. So in 15 turns we'll pop borders, not so far from my initial estimate. We'll be near size 2 after the whip. Depends when Han pops borders there how soon we'll be able to grow to 3 and run scientists, probably ~15 turns = around 1000 bc also as expected. first gs 600 bc isn't bad combined with aggressive expansion. Only one fp needs to be farmed to run the 2 scientists so maybe we can run them even sooner.
SB's borders found.Some nice land in the north western corner, we may lose clam there to SB as we won't settle here for some time.
TrailblazingScot
I was kittenOFchaos
Have to say I think Akkad is a rubbish city, I think that Duckweed made a better decision in that regard in so far as economic reasons go.
Dirk - if Akkad was a blocking city, surely open borders is not the way forward? Hannibal can just trot on through when he runs out of land into the spaces you leave - if any. Trading with Hannibal is a good way to keep friendly, but you could do that without Akkad being put in an area with no good sources of hammers...ah well!
Good luck!
Dirk - if Akkad was a blocking city, surely open borders is not the way forward? Hannibal can just trot on through when he runs out of land into the spaces you leave - if any. Trading with Hannibal is a good way to keep friendly, but you could do that without Akkad being put in an area with no good sources of hammers...ah well!
Good luck!
Dirk1302
Deity
Ais are programmed not to march with settlers through borders, closed or not.So opening borders doesn't change the issue, i took advantage of that.
TrailblazingScot
I was kittenOFchaos
Interesting.
I'm sure I've seen the AI doing that in my games, I'm going to have to keep my eyes open for that.
Still don't like Akkad though
Dirk1302
Deity
@KittenOFChaos, it's a bts thing i believe, warlords and earlier the ais would come through your borders.
@Kid R, that's right ais will use galleys at some point to settle land and in this case they will go through borders as well. I don't think it'll happen before 1000 bc though, probably later but as soon as i can spare a settler (read have the south blocked off) i should probably settle there. There's a potential 3 food city there too, not so easy to build NE/Globe there due to lack of hammers.
@Kid R, that's right ais will use galleys at some point to settle land and in this case they will go through borders as well. I don't think it'll happen before 1000 bc though, probably later but as soon as i can spare a settler (read have the south blocked off) i should probably settle there. There's a potential 3 food city there too, not so easy to build NE/Globe there due to lack of hammers.
Dirk1302
Deity
Not sure that'll work but i'm certainly not going to fogbust there. Chariot in capital has 6 xp and only needs 2-3 kills, so i'll make sure i leave tiles in the fog in the north and in the south until i hit 10 xp. Why should the chariot be exactly NNNW of the capital, to prevent them from settling on a spot i don't want them to settle i guess?
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
Mysticism could be helpful in winning the culture war at Akkad. If you lose that struggle you've failed to block Han after all which would defeat your purpose for building the city.
Dirk1302
Deity
@bestsss, That's a problem too, settlers won't go through borders but barb city taking units do when borders are open. But i think i'll have some time before SB goes for that coast. Won't be that easy to seal off everything anyway, have to take a good look before i really decide on third,fourth etc.. city.
@Gliese, yes that's a good point. But with the library i probably win the culture war for my inner ring anyway. Have to keep my fingers crossed in the meantime. Have to see what happens, if Han pops before me i settle the plain hill near banana i think, that seals the passage off again and is a good spot in it's own right. But i'd prefer to settle third city further to the south.
@Gliese, yes that's a good point. But with the library i probably win the culture war for my inner ring anyway. Have to keep my fingers crossed in the meantime. Have to see what happens, if Han pops before me i settle the plain hill near banana i think, that seals the passage off again and is a good spot in it's own right. But i'd prefer to settle third city further to the south.
It can happen if the AI settler is already on its way when the block completes - need to close borders in that case. Pretty annoying at times esp. if OB deal can't be canceled at the time... So don't blindly trust they won't trespass on your lawn to settle in your back yard
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Settling near the banana as Rusten said under wine would block off great lands for you...
Not sure of Akkad micro tbh... grass forest is better than plain forest
Cheers,
Ras
Not sure of Akkad micro tbh... grass forest is better than plain forest
Cheers,
Ras
Kadazzle
Emperor
The plains forest is being worked I assume to hurry up the Library production (as plains add +1 hammer), but considering you're going to be whipping it, I believe a grassland forest would be better.
Then again, Dirk mentioned something about chopping, so I assume he is chopping the grassland forest tile.
Then again, Dirk mentioned something about chopping, so I assume he is chopping the grassland forest tile.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
^^ even if he will complete it with a chop it's better to work the grass for max food, so he can work the two scientists sooner. If he whips, even better 
Cheers
Cheers
Dirk1302
Deity
@Ras and Kadazzle, might be but i need 3 hammers/turn to get to 20H in 7 turns. With 2H/turn that'll take 10 turns. But i forgot to check if city'd reach size 3 in time shortening the number of turns again, i believe it would have. It's not so terribly important probably. Forests will be prechopped and i'll chop them during the turn of anarchy for slavery once i have the 20H i need.
JammerUno
King
There's might be some resource near the three peaks south of the dye, but it there isn't I don't see a reason to claim any land south of the rise/cow/southern dye latitude, with perhaps a slight deviation south to the east, 2N of the wine. Lizzie probably won't expand into the desert, altough I can't say I understand AI settling.
Those sites are far away and maintainance will be harsh though, and won't contribute anything until post-IW. And that will be a long time away if you settle the cities needed to block off that entire piece of jungle junk.
As for Han taking a tile in your inner culture ring; if I understand cultural influence, you get 1 culture in all the tiles your city influences, added to that your cultural output, and a bonus for the city influence; 0 in the outer ring, adding 20 for every ring you move inward.
You now have 10 culture on the tiles, so if he's built a monument you're already safe, even if the border pops next turn, he'll need 11 turns to get the tile. A library would need only 6 turns to take the tile from you. So if you initiated OB with him, and it wasn't possible before this turn, he doesn't have writing; that means the inner ring is safe.
Those sites are far away and maintainance will be harsh though, and won't contribute anything until post-IW. And that will be a long time away if you settle the cities needed to block off that entire piece of jungle junk.
As for Han taking a tile in your inner culture ring; if I understand cultural influence, you get 1 culture in all the tiles your city influences, added to that your cultural output, and a bonus for the city influence; 0 in the outer ring, adding 20 for every ring you move inward.
You now have 10 culture on the tiles, so if he's built a monument you're already safe, even if the border pops next turn, he'll need 11 turns to get the tile. A library would need only 6 turns to take the tile from you. So if you initiated OB with him, and it wasn't possible before this turn, he doesn't have writing; that means the inner ring is safe.
Dirk1302
Deity
^Agree i think, settling too far south will be killing in maintenance and i think Han might just walk around the city and settle just north since i can't close all the holes in southern borders in time.
Have to take a look where i'll settle precisely but should be in the neighbourhood of the Banana.
There some good spots in the south east so maybe i can settle 1 city south of the gems.
As for culture, i'm not sure any culture is generated atm, my experience is that you need to have at least a monument or Han's culture 'll take over the inner ring as well as soon as he pos borders.
Another reason to settle third city near banana.
I see i was working the plain forest before writing, has cost me 4 food, oh well, have to pay more attention. I think i'll work the grass forest from now as i still have 20 hammers in 8 turns. Will open borders with SB this turn too (haven't done yet in the save).
Have to take a look where i'll settle precisely but should be in the neighbourhood of the Banana.
There some good spots in the south east so maybe i can settle 1 city south of the gems.
As for culture, i'm not sure any culture is generated atm, my experience is that you need to have at least a monument or Han's culture 'll take over the inner ring as well as soon as he pos borders.
Another reason to settle third city near banana.
I see i was working the plain forest before writing, has cost me 4 food, oh well, have to pay more attention. I think i'll work the grass forest from now as i still have 20 hammers in 8 turns. Will open borders with SB this turn too (haven't done yet in the save).
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