Dirk's deity game pt II

[Dirk1302]

Hi all,

This is the second walk through on deity i'll be doing and it'll be different from my first that was finished in less than a week time.

I still like civ a lot but i'm through with playing 2 games or more a week as i did in the past. Also for that reason i switched to SG playing and while i like the usually relaxed format and the fruitful discussion of those games a lot i'm enough of an individualist to like to have my own game to play along a format as this as well.

So essentially i'm going to play a deity game which'll probably roughly follow the pace of your average SG, not too far away from the pace of ALC games as Sisiutil/aelf/Lord Parkin and currently DMOC have been playing. I know some'll be sniggering right now but i don't intend to stop the game for a few months right in the middle, unfortunately i simply cannot claim to be that busy.

As i don't have my SG buddies to rely on here (although i'm sure some of them will chime in and they're very welcome) i hope to get advice/comments/criticism from the forum as well. Every round will be played life meaning that i'll react to comments and advice and may incorporate it as i see fit.

I think a good player should be able to play any leader and cope with any start so i chose random leader fractal start. I dislike huts and particularly random events so i've turned them off.



So here goes



Some info about this guy





I think Hammurabi is about average as leaders go, organized 'll certainly help. Aggressive is more circumstantial, it may help me a bit in the beginning, warriors come out of the gate with c1 so we may do without archers a b it longer. But bowman archers are the uu so going archery while we don't begin with hunting may still be the way to go, forced or not. Not much synergy between c1 warriors on one side, bowmen on the other early game.

The UB gives 2 health to colosseums, that's just plain good.

We start with agri and wheel. Agri is certainly good also here. I think wheel is a good tech to start with as well, it's a bit more expensive than fishing/hunting. Mining is better but wheel probably beats the rest i think especially since we won't go hut hunting.

And the start



Just looked a sec at the start. It's a pretty good start without an immediate commerce resource. So maybe i can address some of Mercury's concerns (posted here Deity questions) about starts without a commerce resource. Have to find out if we don't have copper and are boxed in as well to fully meet his questions.

My first thought was that 1e might be good idea for fresh water, later levee. It won't be possible to build a later city on that coast however which might hurt in the early game. Current placing has better blocking value and the ub helps a bit with health anyway. This is where you come in though.....

Enjoy.

Edit: I won't be as strict as in ALC games where shadows are to be posted in another thread. However since this game'll probably take longer than a month i ask you not to shadow beyond the point i have played myself. Otherwise most will have looked far beyond the point i have played spoiling the game at least for me possibly also for people who like to follow the game from my viewpoint but have knowledge of the game 2000 years in the future. No problem at all with shadows to the point i have played myself, i actually encourage that as long as they're in spoiler tags.

Some additional requirements:

Put a year above the spoiler tag.

If it's clear that you know from your game things i don't know yet for instance a new ai, extra land or resources i don't know about yet put a comment above the spoiler, something like info about ais, resources etc. I'll know not op open it in that case, it's a bit problematic when i'll open it of course but i think it'll work out fine that way (if i open it some some 20 turns later for instance).Ftm at least i think shadows spoilered this way add to the game more than that they distract.

Rounds played sofar:

Until 3400 BC AH and horse

​

Until 2880 BC Mining finished
Until 2480 BC Hannibal and marble
Until 1920 BC writing
Until 1400 BC Expansion into the jungle
Until 1120 BC SB's greedy expansion plans
Until 875 BC, the advantages of closed borders
Until 225 BC Settling the land
Until 100 AD Han's problem's with Liz
Until 400 AD Han and Liz make peace
Until 920 AD the beauty of the Taj Mahal
Until 1110 AD Mobilization
Until 1250 AD The Power of Horses

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'll just HAVE to jump in to shadow, but first I'm going to finish my own game .

 

[Dirk1302]

Omg, how can you manage to react so quickly i was just going to check if i had written the introduction correctly. Actually since this is not a challenge i don't mind a shadow but not further than i have played my self at that point. I'll edit the introduction.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Well I generally spoiler everything but if you request I can open a different thread when I finally get to it anyway. As for reaction time ----> sheer luck.

 

[kossin]

I would move the warrior NW on the hill to see what's up there. Going coastal is a possibility as well but the 2 visible resources couldn't be gotten with any coastal spot that we currently see.

Settling 1E would add: 2 forests, 1 grassland hill, 2 plains hill (one riverside), levee
and lose: 3 grassland, possibly a resource in the fog. Plus it'd take 1 more turn to hook up cows/rice

So let's see that warrior move.

 

[Dirk1302]

@TMIT, I have edited the introduction in the mean time. I know you know the rules about spoilers. You can play ahead of me in another thread if you like since the discussion will be away from this thread and readers can more easily choose their pick. I suggest it's more fun however if you just play along with me in this thread, i know it'll try your patience but there'd be more discussion since we can comment on each others efforts. Also seeing that you've just started your own SG career this patience will come in handy in the future .

On a more serious note, i could play it in a few days, so could you and we've both done it a lot in the past. The idea is to go through it at leisure delving deep into interesting subjects/decisions/problems as they come, not rushing forward before we have satisfying answers to our questions.

 

[DaveMcW]

It's a pretty good start without an immediate commerce resource.

That screenshot is an awful start, unless you're referring to stuff hidden in the fog.

 

[DMOC]

I'm always confused as to whether it's best to settle in place or on the river when I get starts like these that have the river end. But for this particular start, I would say that 1e is probably best. You can still improve the rice immediately after the first worker is done and then improve the cows if you research Animal Husbandry first. Or would you rather research Hunting before AH for a discount?

Oh wait, I didn't take into account the other tiles in the fog. Seeing as you already have 2 food resources I wouldn't gamble on a third.

 

[whats a navy]

These kinds of starts scream strategic resources like horse, bronze, or iron. Maybe tech bronze working and prey for copper to rush if there's anyone near to make use of the aggresive trait. I just can't stand not utilizing someones traits for what their worth.

 

[JammerUno]

What about 1NE? Still have the rice and cows, same number of riverside grassland, gain a forest for chopping and 3 unforested hills. There's the risk of settling on top of iron/copper then, but on the other hand there's a chance there's a resource on those 3 hills which you'll miss.

With horses N or N-NW of the warrior, which I find tend to hang out in those kinds of places, this isn't a bad site for production.

 

[Dirk1302]

@Dave, well i don't need much to be happy. I have seen many complain about starts which i found pretty good. But to be honest in my first short look i missed that the rice isn't irrigated which detracts more than a bit. It isn't afwful though, i have played starts without rice and without the rivers (only the plain cow). One thing about this start which is imo very good is the immediate blocking value provided. Compared with a coastal start we more or less have our second city up in terms of blocking. I'm not inclined to move towards the coast for this reason.

@Kossin, i'm not against moving the warrior 1 nw. But what can the warrior find that would change my mind. Mind you i'm not very good at choosing starting positions and almost always settle in place. Here settling in place seems superior imo for the blocking value of inland city and the chance of finding another resource in the fog which can't be checked by any warrior move.
One thing i do know is that a capital has >= 3 hills, they're all on view so this says nothing about things that are in the fog. There's also a minimum of resources that your capital should have, that can also be things like aluminium, uranium etc. Cap should have 1 food resource at least, plain cow already counts like that and i actually have played a start with only such a tile, i'll try to find the link to that and post it. I like every start that's better than that one since.

 

[Gliese 581]

I have to agree with Dave about this start, I find it pretty horrible from what is immediately known. Good for demonstration purposes though, you haven't stacked this game in your favour with this leader and start.

I'd move the warrior 1NW, then SIP unless he finds something worthwhile.
Oh and it's nice to post again btw, I've been taking a long break but I just started reading the forums a little bit recently. Let's see how long it lasts this time.

 

[Dirk1302]

@DMOC, @what's a navy
But what if there is a food resource in the fog, moving would be disastrous in that case, lose food resource and city on coast? What do you think about blocking value bw? It's extremely important in my book. As for a quick rush, if i really need that and i find copper just outside BFC that would sure hurt a bit. Then again even with early rushes you often set up a second production city and guess where it's going if need to this. I can still decide on the rush in this case, won't be optimal though in that case. I have played > 20 deity games and only once iirc i rushed in the early game. If i can just rex to good sites i'd far prefer that to a rush. Mind you, this is a matter of playing style, a rush could well be better than a rex and we have to see if this situation arrives, i normally choose to rex in favor of rushing if i have a choice.

@Jammer uno
But 1e would get you the same hills and doesn't lose a turn, you would even have 4 hills.

 

[Dirk1302]

I have to agree with Dave about this start, I find it pretty horrible from what is immediately known. Good for demonstration purposes though, you haven't stacked this game in your favour with this leader and start.

I'd move the warrior 1NW, then SIP unless he finds something worthwhile.
Oh and it's nice to post again btw, I've been taking a long break but I just started reading the forums a little bit recently. Let's see how long it lasts this time.

Nice to see you back Gliese , what happened to that game with the big Ghandi on your left, you were Willem iirc? Indeed i didn't stack in my favor, just chose random, pity that someone like Troy would never believe it . Start's fine as far as i'm concerned. Could turn ugly any moment of course but i'm not especially worried right now. What should the warrior find 1 nw to move? And what's your take on inland blocking value as opposed to early rush value which is imo the best reason to move to the east. Levee is too far in the future for me.

 

[Gliese 581]

Nice to see you back Gliese , what happened to that game with the big Ghandi on your left, you were Willem iirc? Indeed i didn't stack in my favor, just chose random, pity that someone like Troy would never believe it . Start's fine as far as i'm concerned. Could turn ugly any moment of course but i'm not especially worried right now. What should the warrior find 1 nw to move? And what's your take on inland blocking value as opposed to early rush value which is imo the best reason to move to the east. Levee is too far in the future for me.

I've yet to finish that game. I get bored in the end stage, even if the win is not guaranteed, I guess that's bad when you do feature games.
I might still finish it, we'll see.

I think the warrior should find a good food or commerce source for me to move otherwise I'd not want to risk losing resources to the west. I don't care about levee either, it's balanced a bit by the loss of food in going east anyhow since you pick up plains. I far prefer blocking/settling peacefully to early war on deity even with an aggressive leader.

Edit: Btw I tried to load the save but it says can't load version 302, expected version 301 or lower or something like that. I guess I need to do some updates, any idea what this might refer to?

 

[Soirana]

can't load version 302, expected version 301 or lower or something like that.

3.19. Patched changed save format or something like that.

mmm, I hoped seeing that fight against Ghandi one day...

 

[Bruin.Bound]

I'm looking forward to this, the more deity walkthroughs the better, especially with someone as experienced doing it. I don't think I'm ready to go from immortal to deity myself, but maybe I'll still try this out as a learning experience. I've also been wanting to play as Hammurabi so its perfect... not that anyone cares about anything I just said Sorry for the lack of insight.

 

[obsolete]

I don't get how people think this is a terrible spot. Makes me wonder if people are getting too used to HoF generations? I sure wish I could get something like this every time. Move 1 spot E and you have an absolute production power-house. Build your way to victory easy.

People who whine about low commerce starts too much tend to be cottagers who don't know what to do with a production power-house that lands in their lap.

 

[Dirk1302]

@Gliese, i know the message,almost certain you need to patch to 3.19 as Soirana said.

@Bruin, didn't particularly want to play as Ham, i think he's alright but a bit boring. Can't remember playing him before. Forum games tend to go with extremes, very flexible like Hatty, max commerce like Liz,max defensive like Toku in a game where it helps. Ham has nothing that stands out really as far as i can see so i guess he only has a chance in a random pickup. Don't dislike him actually seeing what he has to offer.

@obs, well Dave said it was bad, that counts for something. Think it's around average myself, certainly above if i picked up a food resource in the west. Thing is as you mentioned that there'll be good production and long term this capital will obviously be very powerful with all the grass.
It's also likely that the surrounding land will be fair at least. if you can see the edge of desert you can hope for fp but you can also meet with 5+tiles of nothing in each direction, i also don't see a corner of tundra here so some chance that there's fine land in the neighbourhood. It'll take more time to set things up however than with an irri corn and also initial research will be slow without a commerce resource. Comments about an early rush make sense in that light, i will be somewhat late with the first settlers so maybe an early rush'll help since there's indeed a reasonable chance on copper in those unforested hills, not sure though.

I think i'll move warrior nw and see what's there. Probably settle in place unless i get some real convincing arguments not to do that.

 

[Kadazzle]

Two resources can't spawn beside eachother, unless it's two pasture resources (this rule I believe only applies to Capital's though) so in my opinion I'd settle 1E.

Pros of 1E

1) It is on what looks like a long river connecting to the ocean. Once sailing opens up, you can have trade routes with all AIs even if you never placed a coastal city, which is good.

2) Assuming no one is up to the north, settling 1E immediately blocks the coast to the E and acts as a good blocking city. If no one is up to the north, you can create a chain of cities spanning the west and use roads + rivers as a mass trade route. Again, this all depends on how far north you are.

3) Adds more riverside tiles, and lots of hills making an awesome Bureau capital. Not only that, but later in the game, once you Windmill the river-side hills and add watermills on the plain riverside tiles, this capital will be a champ in food, production and commerce (assuming you chain irrigate from the river).

If I were you I'd go 1E. Like you, I like this start as it is full of production meaning quick workers and settlers.

Good luck!