Short fun game (immortal)

[shyuhe]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I hosted an SG and as part of OSS's recruiting efforts, I'm going to run a short quick game while we wait for SGOTM 11 to start The game will be run with BUFFY, and the settings are:



Our opponents are hand selected: DeGaulle, Churchill, Gandhi, Mao, Roosie, and Bismarck (needed a 6th). Some of these faces may be familiar to you

Our start after re-rolling:



Yes it's generous - this is meant to be a casual game after all!

Looking for a roster of 6, preference will be given to current OSS members of course Hopefully a couple of new players will step up to join us.

Oh and the variant rule: we MUST win by conquest. Yes, we'll need boats. Bonus points will be awarded for not building any cottages outside of the capital.

[RRRaskolnikov]

Always up for a short quickie...
Will have a look at the save after work

edit: settle in place or 1 ne works for me. scout nw then whatever you see agri -> BW (yes no need to look at the save finally)
edit2: loving the bonus point rule...

[mystyfly]

Signing in hehe. Been a long time, hi guys

Thx for handpicking opponents so Ill finally have a game without joao, this guy is hunting me

You barely could have rolled a better start high pop cities early, phant action... everything my heart desires Conquest means vassals else we'll accidentally hit dom likely.

Looking foreward to playing with you

[Silu]

Hi, I could join as well

Should indeed be a short game with that start In place looks to be best considering the circumstances (bonus point rule / continents / VC restriction). Anticipating some hardcore hammer&sickle action outside the capital.

EDIT: Oh, I didn't notice it was actually a Quick game. Would definitely be the first Quick&Conquest for me.

[shyuhe]

Nice to see you again mysty Welcome Silu! I think babybluepants will be joining us as well, and hopefully mdy too which would bring us to 6. We'll see if another player or two joins before we start the game in earnest.

I'm thinking settle 1NE. 1NE may have more unhealthiness but FP + unhealthy = grassland (essentially) so I think it'll be fine. We're not giving up seafood and we pick up more hills so I think it's stronger. Tech I'm thinking agri--BW as Ras suggested.

Scout move 2NW (or something like that depending on how the coast bends)?

And yes, this is a quick game so build times may feel different from normal I doubt we'll pull off any chariot rush or anything like that - I'm thinking renaissance will be the first time we'll have a chance to really war. And siege is going to be pretty much a no-no unless it's cannons vs. LB.

[RRRaskolnikov]

I agree about quick speed conquest: first to military tradition wins!

Agreed about capital location, one NE allows more cottages in the cap.

[Silu]

Hmm, wouldn't have thought twice about settling in place for coastal access especially if we need mass intercontinental warfare. 1NE is of course very good even though it wastes a FP (always hate to do that) and only gives a desert hill for if I read the fog correctly. Losing a resource 2S is also a possibility.

Anyway, I guess they're about equal and if you consider the bonus points then 1NE may win River also isn't insignificant if we consider that the most profitable wars are probably going to be around the time Levees start popping up.

[babybluepants]

Checking in.

Originally Posted by shyuhe

Our opponents are hand selected: DeGaulle, Churchill, Gandhi, Mao, Roosie, and Bismarck (needed a 6th).

Nice.

Either capital site is pretty nice, but I agree with Silu, never would have thought to not settle on the coast. We're industrious, so maybe a shot at coastal wonders. The extra -1 unhealthy can really stifle early on, especially if we wanna keep working a gold.

[RRRaskolnikov]

^^ it gains us also the grass hill we would be settling onto

[shyuhe]

I think it's pretty unlikely 2S from the start has a resource since we have tons of FP in the BFC. 2SE from the start looks a lot more suspicious to me.

In addition to the unhealthiness from 1NE, it also loses ivory in the BFC so we'll likely need a second city to hook it up (or just wait for the second border pop). However, we can still plant a city 2S (or 3S) from the start and 1NW from the ivory, so I think we'll have plenty of space to make coastal cities. They only need to build boats anyways so they don't have to be very good.

[Silu]

Originally Posted by RRRaskolnikov

^^ it gains us also the grass hill we would be settling onto

Yes, but loses a Jumbo which is a pimped-up grass hill, so that's why I didn't count it.

[shyuhe]

1NE also has an 11 hammer levee in its future It'll also make a wonderful bureau capital that should be able to do all of our necessary research for us. Although it looks like it'll have 12 desert tiles in its BFC which makes for 4 unhealthy (I think?). I think base healthy is 4, +2 for fresh water? So we'll get to size 3 before we hit unhealthy, 4 with the corn connected. Since this is a continents map, it's unlikely that we'll get all 3 grain resources before astronomy so that may be another consideration.

[babybluepants]

^ I think base unhealthy on immortal is just +1, right? Or maybe it's +2, I never know. +2 fresh water, +2 forest, gives +5 or +6. FP's are .4 each, rounded down. Where did you count 12? The one you settle on shouldn't count and I can't tell what's in the fog north, but there's only 9 visible, so maybe 10 total, counting 2N. 10 would be worse. That would put us at unhealthy @ pop 2.

I'm cool with 1NE, having thought about it some more. It's probably better long-term.

[RRRaskolnikov]

I think that a couple of health resources will help to compensate for the fps (I believe your right BBP, max 10 here)... my vote is one ne now phants will be within cultural borders fast enough (we want a fast library with this kind of capital, fast academy even )

[shyuhe]

For some reason, I thought FP unhealthy was .33. And I counted 12 tiles including 2 in the fog to the north. It's a guess, but they're probably FP/desert hill. In any event, that's 4 or 5 unhealthy. So yeah, I think we may be unhealthy at size 2

[RRRaskolnikov]

@Mysty: I see you still haven't deleted the signs of your previous mistakes with Gypsy Kings Go change that immediately!

[mystyfly]

Hehe sry ras, no time, I have been distracted as you fairly well know will do as soon as I find time

I vote for settling in place, have a shot at GLH (its only immortal), get the +2 early and have a nice naval production city. Also we start with hunting so we can hook up the phants without having to research another tech.

[babybluepants]

Originally Posted by shyuhe

For some reason, I thought FP unhealthy was .33. And I counted 12 tiles including 2 in the fog to the north. It's a guess, but they're probably FP/desert hill. In any event, that's 4 or 5 unhealthy. So yeah, I think we may be unhealthy at size 2

Thought about it some more. I remember Obormot arguing against the unhealthiness in a similar situation in a recent BOTM. I usually go with 7FP max as a rule of thumb myself, especially this early in the game. If you think about it, unhealthy at pop 2 equals non-irrigated corn and a bunch of grass-equivalent FP's. In fact, worse than grass, since it takes longer to farm an FP.

Also, we shouldn't discount GLH as an option at this point, I think. So, I guess I'm voting for in-place after all.

I'd make the scout move, so we can also evaluate the possibility of another city NW vis-a-vis capital location.

[shyuhe]

I agree that 1NE has too much unhealthiness for this early in the game, and FP take longer to improve anyways. So I change my vote to in place, leaving Ras as the only one for 1NE

[shyuhe]

I moved the scout 2NW along the coast, revealing this:



Also, I'm still convinced that the two tiles north of the mass of FP are desert as well. The tile under the city counts for terrain purposes so that's at least 10 FP, max 12. Thankfully the game rounds down so there's no difference - 4 unhealthy either way. Base health at immortal is 1 +2 for the level. We get +2 for freshwater and +2 for the 4 forests. So that brings it up to 7 health, as compared to 4 unhealthy. So we can grow to size 3 while remaining healthy with 1NE. We'll want to settle the fish/cow/ivory fairly early anyways, so that'll up our health two more and one more from the corn (2 with granary). That puts us at a health cap of 7, which is more than sufficient for the early game as compared to our likely happy cap (+4 base +1 for palace + 1 for gold and +1 for ivory for 7 total). The downside of course is that FP take longer to improve, but if we work the gold at size 2, we won't be growing super fast anyways. The downside being we won't be able to chop any of the capital's forests early on.

So now I'm torn again