Preview Thread: DaNES II: In Search of a Decent Title
- Thread starter Dachs
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Well, in most societies, the state tends to be the biggest moneylender still. If the treasury is completely out and you're still running a deficit, you will probably be able to make up the difference with loans...though by that time you'll probably have other, more important problems.
Kraznaya
Princeps
Dachs, how formalized are diplomatic relationships between the proper Chinese dynasties and the Houqin, Tantan, and Xianbei?
I'll have you know that according to some of my readings, in India there was a moneylending system/companies run by Jains and each family would basically be one company and they were be distributed across the subcontinent and provide loans to the various kings and members of the royal family at fractional rates of interest and they would get the funds from their family connections who would be spread out all over the place and while appearing small the fractional interest was compounded on some increment of time and these kings and members of the royal family would quickly amass massive debts, which they would take out further loans from a different moneylending family to pay off. It's rather intriguing.
Yeah, but nobody's applied for anything in India seriously yet so I don't really have to worry about it. 
In all seriousness, though, that would probably be an expedient available to Indian states. Provided you could justify it. Since the Jains, unlike the Buddhists, are still around. In India.
In all seriousness, though, that would probably be an expedient available to Indian states. Provided you could justify it. Since the Jains, unlike the Buddhists, are still around. In India.
The way I envision it is that the three 'proper' Chinese dynasties (not Nanyue) all claim the Mandate of Heaven, and in their diplomatic contacts with one another they end up elaborately sidestepping the issue of acknowledging the others' supremacy. None of the northern barbarians are part of anybody's tributary system [yet?].Kraznaya said:
Anonymoose
KING OF MEESE
Applying for the Chola Empire.
NESing experience: Joined in August of 09, played in ABNW as the tiny nation of Tunisia, slowly increased its power. Managed to pirate the most powerful nations in the game by making a sort of new-age barbary state. Played as Turkey, got them out of hideous bad times. Apparently was considered for 'Best New Player.' Played in INES as the Confederate States of America, got awards, but so did everyone else, so they're meaningless. Also play in SLYNES, don't think that applies to this situation.
NESing experience: Joined in August of 09, played in ABNW as the tiny nation of Tunisia, slowly increased its power. Managed to pirate the most powerful nations in the game by making a sort of new-age barbary state. Played as Turkey, got them out of hideous bad times. Apparently was considered for 'Best New Player.' Played in INES as the Confederate States of America, got awards, but so did everyone else, so they're meaningless. Also play in SLYNES, don't think that applies to this situation.
Perfectionist
Angel of Verdun
1st Choice: Kingdom of Rygia
2nd Choice: Kingdom of Nerwia
Experience: Turned Gaul into a great power in INES I, turned Portugal and Ethiopia into great powers in BirdNES I, salvaged the Norse Empire in TNES I, turned Danelaw into a great power in AFSNES, haven't played in anything since.
Strengths: Statebuilding, I guess, and a willingness to do a lot of research
2nd Choice: Kingdom of Nerwia
Experience: Turned Gaul into a great power in INES I, turned Portugal and Ethiopia into great powers in BirdNES I, salvaged the Norse Empire in TNES I, turned Danelaw into a great power in AFSNES, haven't played in anything since.
Strengths: Statebuilding, I guess, and a willingness to do a lot of research
Huh?Rygia's stats said:
Huh is right! I guess that's what they would call them if they were...uh...Old English-speakers!
Redacted. 
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
So how does the Nanyue fit into all of that?
Some other mistakes in the Celtic and Germanic states' nomenclature were fixed.
To be honest, I'm going to leave it up to you guys. Virtually all of the information I can find on Nanyue and "how Chinese" it is/was is horribly colored by nationalistic bull**** and as such highly unreliable. That kind of screws up any initiative I might try to make in terms of the proper diplomatic and ceremonial etiquette they might be employing. They've been playing both ends against the middle over the past few decades, allying with Wu and Yang alternately as the two of them gobble up most of the intermediary warlords that used to hold sway down south - more frequently Wu than Yang so far, since the Wu haven't been as interested in conquering and despoiling Nanyue territory.
Kraznaya
Princeps
We also have candy. Delicious candy.
Is that the Dayang (green)?Dachs said:
Kraznaya
Princeps
By the way before I forget Dachs, can you please explain the political motivations and aims of every Chinese clique?
I was going to ask this by pm, but if we're doing this in the thread can you do the same for Areia?
Also can you tell me more about the nature of Areian religon, so they worshipped the Selucid ruler as some sort of god cult before converting to Zoarastarianism because of religous repression? What about elements of polytheistic Greek religon does any of that remain? How has that mixed with Zorastrianisim?
Can you tell me the nature of Ariean society, it says there are Greeks and Medians, how much of society do they make up? What happened to the Persians? What theocratic elements exist in Arien government? Do Arien rulers adopt Greek names or Median or Persian names? I see they keep the title of Basielius, why have they not claimed the Selucid title or the old Persian title of Shahenshah? What language is spoken Greek and Farsi? How hellenized is the population? They're hostile to Bactria, Sogdiana, Massagetha, and Selucidis I take it? Do they have any allies? What are there relations with the two Indo-Greek states? Armenia? Persus?
From one of my vauge philosophy classes i know the Sophists were basically teachers/professors who taught rehthroic, logic, philosophy and things like that, but here they seem to have become some sort of religous group, how did that come to be and what influence do they have on Arien society?
Kentharu
Zebra Commander
Claim List (in order of preference)
Justo:- Kingdom of Mysia, Kingdom of Pisidia
Kraznaya:- Wu Dynasty, Nanyue Dynasty, League of Patalene
germanicus12:- Kingdom of Kimmerian Bosporos, Iberian Empire, Kingdom of Makedonia
Kentharu:- Kingdom of Aigyptos, Askumite Empire, Chola Empire
Abaddon:- Daliang Dynasty
TheWesley:- Dailiang Dynasty, Republic of Panormos
Espoir:- Kingdom of Areia, Mazsakata Horde, Seleukid Empire
flyingchicken:- Ruxsalannoi Horde, Kingdom of Makedonia
Karalyasia:- Kingdom of Areia
Shadowbound:- Iberian Empire, Aksumite Empire, Kingdom of Makedonia
Thlayli:- Republic of Panormos, Kingdom of Aigyptos
Flavius Aetius:- Kingdom of Mysia, Kingdom of Areia, Aorsi Horde
Cynovolans:- Seleukid Empire, Kingdom of Chaonia, Armenian Empire
Birdjaguar:- Yamato Empire, Wu Dynasty, Kingdom of Aegyptos
Bill3000:- Perseid Empire, Kingdom of Walhaland
Nuclear Kid:- Cambrian Confederacy, Pala Empire,Kindom of Rygia
Anonymoose:- Chola Empire
Perfectionist:- Kingdom of Rygia, Kingdom of Nerwia
Supermath:- Cambrian Confederacy, Kingdom of Walhia, Ruxsalannoi Horde
Azale:- Dayang Dynasty, Perseid Empire, League of Patalene
Yul108:- Kingdom of Kaspeireia, Yang Dynasty, Kingdom of Rygia
I have underlined all of the first choices that are repeated.
Justo:- Kingdom of Mysia, Kingdom of Pisidia
Kraznaya:- Wu Dynasty, Nanyue Dynasty, League of Patalene
germanicus12:- Kingdom of Kimmerian Bosporos, Iberian Empire, Kingdom of Makedonia
Kentharu:- Kingdom of Aigyptos, Askumite Empire, Chola Empire
Abaddon:- Daliang Dynasty
TheWesley:- Dailiang Dynasty, Republic of Panormos
Espoir:- Kingdom of Areia, Mazsakata Horde, Seleukid Empire
flyingchicken:- Ruxsalannoi Horde, Kingdom of Makedonia
Karalyasia:- Kingdom of Areia
Shadowbound:- Iberian Empire, Aksumite Empire, Kingdom of Makedonia
Thlayli:- Republic of Panormos, Kingdom of Aigyptos
Flavius Aetius:- Kingdom of Mysia, Kingdom of Areia, Aorsi Horde
Cynovolans:- Seleukid Empire, Kingdom of Chaonia, Armenian Empire
Birdjaguar:- Yamato Empire, Wu Dynasty, Kingdom of Aegyptos
Bill3000:- Perseid Empire, Kingdom of Walhaland
Nuclear Kid:- Cambrian Confederacy, Pala Empire,Kindom of Rygia
Anonymoose:- Chola Empire
Perfectionist:- Kingdom of Rygia, Kingdom of Nerwia
Supermath:- Cambrian Confederacy, Kingdom of Walhia, Ruxsalannoi Horde
Azale:- Dayang Dynasty, Perseid Empire, League of Patalene
Yul108:- Kingdom of Kaspeireia, Yang Dynasty, Kingdom of Rygia
I have underlined all of the first choices that are repeated.
War song of the archers:
None can stand beneath our flights
Of arrows sent in broad daylight;
Our winged death bears your name;
So, quit the field and bear the shame,
Or, as you stand, now in rows,
You’ll be the feast for tomorrow's crows.
None can stand beneath our flights
Of arrows sent in broad daylight;
Our winged death bears your name;
So, quit the field and bear the shame,
Or, as you stand, now in rows,
You’ll be the feast for tomorrow's crows.
Woot, we got blessed with a trademark cryptic Birdjag poem! 
Thanks for compiling that, Kentharu.
Ulug Tantan: Great Tantan [OTL Rouran], the faction of the qagan, does more or less what the qagan says.
Tantan Qoriltai: the Qoriltai [or Kurultai] is an assembly of all the Tantan warriors, not just the immediate adherents of the king. They tend to be interested in plunder, but more so security, and averse to any major changes.
Tiele yabghu: the yabghu [or Yavuga; kind of a subking] of the Tiele tribe. Wants the Tiele to take more prominent positions in raiding, and for the qagan to attack the Xianbei more. Doesn't like the Jiankun.
Jiankun yabghu: the yabghu of the Jiankun tribe. Likes the current prominent position of the Jiankun tribe, likes raiding the Houqin.
Xazarlar yabghu: the yabghu of the Xazarlar tribe. More or less satisfied with the current low-level raiding on Sogdiane that the qagan has been conducting.
Da Wusun: Great Wusun, the faction of the dynast, does more or less what the dynast says. Pastoralists.
Xiao Yuezhi: the Lesser Yuezhi, formerly independent group related to the guys in charge of Liang right now. They were formerly tributaries of the Liang and still have extensive ties to them. Tend not to like it when the Liang are attacked.
Murong Xianbei: a sub-group of Xianbei that had a falling-out with the Xianbei qagan and skedaddled on over to the Houqin. Tend to like attacking the Xianbei.
Tuqi of the Right: Wise King of the Right, a subking controlling the eastern armies and territory of the Houqin. Tends to like it when he gets to command troops and so forth. Has ceremonial superiority over the Tuqi of the Left. Likes attacking the Liang, tends to favor alliances with the Yang.
Tuqi of the Left: Wise King of the Left, a subking controlling the western armies and territory of the Houqin. Tends to like it when he gets to command troops and so forth. Pissed that he's ceremonially inferior to the Tuqi of the Right. Wants to spend more time fighting the Tantan, angry that little is being done about their raiding thus far.
Inner Court: the close associates, eunuchs, and harem of the dynast. Tend to be yes-men. Currently favor an invasion of Wu, though this changes frequently and is based on whim more often than not.
State bureaucracy: the dudes who end up running things. Selected due to recommendations from other bureaucrats, and as such the organization is stacked with nobility. No examinations have been put into place. Tends to like self-aggrandizement. Doesn't like being shaken up or messed with by the dynast.
Da Yuezhi: 'Great Yuezhi', also known as the Tocharians, an Indo-European group. Formerly a large pastoral group from the Gansu, ended up conquering the Yellow River valley some centuries ago and raised their chief up to the rank of emperor upon the collapse of the Qi. Many of them lead settled lives now but in an effort to maintain military superiority that is slowly losing ground to the inexorable forces of time a slowly dwindling number still live on the fringes of the empire and live as nomads. Tend to like military offensive operations and plunder and 'maintaining the cultural unity of the Yuezhi'.
Sun clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Sun family. Thoroughly Daoist. Many of the Sun are military officers, especially in the southern Liang territories. Tend to approve of conquests and see a future for themselves in a reunified China.
Xu clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Xu family. Loosely associated with policies of retrenchment, but chiefly favor conquests outside of the Chinese states - i.e. from the Houqin and from Jin-guk.
Inner court: the close associates, eunuchs, and harem of the dynast. Tend to be yes-men. Favor various policies on a whim, easy to manipulate. Currently favor retrenchment after the last round of wars.
Royal bureaucracy: the dudes who end up running things. Selected due to recommendations from other bureaucrats, and as such the organization is stacked with nobility. No examinations have been put into place. Tends to like self-aggrandizement. Doesn't like being shaken up or messed with by the dynast.
Zhu clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Zhu family. Occupy a large number of the military posts in the northern parts of the empire, and heavily invested in various forms of under-the-table trade with the Houqin and Liang. Tend to oppose wars with either of those. Currently has sights set on increasing the numbers of Zhu associates in the bureaucracy.
Gu clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Gu family. They are mostly Buddhists and support the expansion of Buddhism within the Yang territories. Tend to oppose external wars, especially with the Nanyue.
Lu clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Lu family. Hold a majority of the military posts in the eastern portion of the empire. Outraged over the mistreatment of Lu officers during the last war with Wu, currently demanding control over larger numbers of troops and a return to war with Wu. Stringently oppose giving the Gu clique so much as a farthing.
Buqu: represents the paid hereditary quasi-mercenary soldiers in the army. Tend to oppose external wars unless they are given a sizable share of the plunder, in which case they love them. Also tend to like getting pay raises, which they recently did.
Inner court: the close associates, eunuchs, and harem of the dynast. Tend to be yes-men. Favor various policies on a whim, easy to manipulate. Currently favor an expansion of naval trade facilities.
Royal bureaucracy: the dudes who end up running things. Selected due to recommendations from other bureaucrats, and as such the organization is stacked with nobility. No examinations have been put into place. Tends to like self-aggrandizement, doesn't like a diminishing role. Were recently ousted from naval administration in favor of an Admiralty-like organization. Doesn't like being shaken up or messed with by the dynast.
Merchantry: the merchants, oddly enough. Tend to oppose wars, except with the aim of opening up further opportunities to trade. Approve of all naval expansion programs. Make up a large proportion of the membership of the admiralty. Also tend to be largely Buddhist.
Shi clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Shi family. Mostly Daoist. Currently make up a significant proportion of the land bureaucracy and army officer posts, favor war with Nanyue or Yang.
Xie clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Xie family. Mostly Buddhist. Tend to favor retrenchment after the last round of wars.
Buqu: represents the paid hereditary quasi-mercenary soldiers in the army. Tend to oppose external wars unless they are given a sizable share of the plunder, in which case they love them. Also tend to like getting pay raises.
Royal court: play the same damn function the court does in every other Chinese state. They are currently in favor of an alliance with Yang. I suspect bribery.
Royal administration: again, more of the same - entrenched aristo-dominated bureaucracy. They don't like the whole 'concentrate on the navy' thing Nanyue has going.
Ying clique: the Ying family and their associates. They like the navy and they like peaceful trade. Perfect faction for alex, frankly. They differ from the merchantry in that they also have estates along the Wu border and as such violently oppose any tensions with Wu.
Anguo clique: the Anguo family and their associates. Currently favoring an attack on the Wu to destroy their rival navy and force them to convert to Buddhism.
Merchantry: the merchants, oddly enough, tend to support what merchants usually support. I know this is kind of short for you alex and I'll probably come back and revise this but I'm losing steam. Blame Kraz.
Army Assembly: the aristocratic generals and smallholding soldiers that make up much of the backbone of your army. They like successful wars with lots of plunder and lots of estates. Not just Greek, there are a large number of Medians in the group too, chiefly because of the cavalry. They also formally have to acclaim each new successor to the throne and arbitrate succession disputes.
Medioi: "Medians", the native Iranian people, specifically the big landowners who serve in your army as cavalry. They're also deeply Zoroastrian. Support any policies that you can justify with links back to the ancient Hakhaamahesh kings or back to Zoroaster.
Zoroastrian clergy: self-explanatory. I have no frickin clue why they are a separate faction from the Medioi, presumably I thought it was a good idea at the time. Anyway, these guys are like the Magi from the succession dispute Darius the Great had that one time back in the day. They like holy wars against infidels, just like the Magi did.
Sousiane: the region and satrap of Susiana, which is the area around Susa. The satrap has been given powers over all the territory from Fars up the Zagros all along the western border. Likes it when he is given money or when attention is given to his territory. Opposes war with the Seleukids on the grounds that he has under the table trade ties to the Seleukid authorities.
Parthyaia: the region of the capital Hekatompylos. The people here tend to favor fighting the Mazsakata and Baktrians, having attention showered upon them in various ways, you name it. Also much more heavily Hellenized than Sousiane.
Merchantry: obviously enough, the merchants. These guys are more land-focused than the Chinese merchants since Seleukid and Patalene guys have more or less taken over the carry trade in the Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea. So they favor accommodations with the Mazsakata and Tantan in order to safely move in the east, and if possible a short conquest of Sogdiane, although a long war would obviously be bad because it would funnily enough disrupt trade.
It's the worship of the Holy Wisdom, or Hagia Sophia, a cult that originated with the worship of Athene by Greek polytheists back in the day. Starting with the vague characterizations of some fourth-century BC philosophers and eventually gaining steam in the first century AD, the cult ended up being the most enduring vestige of the Greek religion. It's monotheistic, and the prominent aspects of the worship of Sophia/Athene before the religion became the most revered ones in the new faith.
It kind of took the role of Christianity in this world, chiefly because of interaction with Judaism. Originally the proto-Sophist Athene cult was tied strongly to the Perseid Empire and the temporal control it had over most of the Mediterranean. So there was a lot of dialogue between the proto-Sophists and the Jews, who were a dime a dozen in the Perseid heartland at that time. Sophism is in a lot of ways like a weird mixture of Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, and of course Greek polytheism. You could kinda compare it to Agade Dag from AFSNES too. I didn't really develop this very fully (and am very interested in player initiative), but there's a revealed text and a religious hierarchy connected with the Perseid Empire and their formerly close buddies the Baktrians. Holy city is, shockingly, Athens. When the Perseids lost Athens a few centuries back, actually, they lost control of a lot of the clergy that remained outside their territory, and the Perseid basileus' claim to be the head of the Sophist religion rang hollow. That's when the missionary impulse started (same thing with the Roman Empire and Christianity - "universal empire" became "universal empire of the faithful"), which added onto the already wide spread of the faith. No major lasting schisms yet, though I'm sure somebody'll think of something.
The OTL foundation for this is the concept of the Holy Wisdom that the Christians kind of pinched from some Greek philosophers (insofar as you can really separate the two groups in the first few centuries of Christianity), which in fact did develop out of Athene. It was subsumed into the Christian faith rather early. Now it's the other way around? I kind of had to have some replacement for Christianity since the course of Hebrew history got massively altered with no Maccabees.
Thanks for compiling that, Kentharu.
Yeah, "Great Yang".
Yeah, sure. Just because it's you, Kraz.
Ulug Tantan: Great Tantan [OTL Rouran], the faction of the qagan, does more or less what the qagan says.
Tantan Qoriltai: the Qoriltai [or Kurultai] is an assembly of all the Tantan warriors, not just the immediate adherents of the king. They tend to be interested in plunder, but more so security, and averse to any major changes.
Tiele yabghu: the yabghu [or Yavuga; kind of a subking] of the Tiele tribe. Wants the Tiele to take more prominent positions in raiding, and for the qagan to attack the Xianbei more. Doesn't like the Jiankun.
Jiankun yabghu: the yabghu of the Jiankun tribe. Likes the current prominent position of the Jiankun tribe, likes raiding the Houqin.
Xazarlar yabghu: the yabghu of the Xazarlar tribe. More or less satisfied with the current low-level raiding on Sogdiane that the qagan has been conducting.
Da Wusun: Great Wusun, the faction of the dynast, does more or less what the dynast says. Pastoralists.
Xiao Yuezhi: the Lesser Yuezhi, formerly independent group related to the guys in charge of Liang right now. They were formerly tributaries of the Liang and still have extensive ties to them. Tend not to like it when the Liang are attacked.
Murong Xianbei: a sub-group of Xianbei that had a falling-out with the Xianbei qagan and skedaddled on over to the Houqin. Tend to like attacking the Xianbei.
Tuqi of the Right: Wise King of the Right, a subking controlling the eastern armies and territory of the Houqin. Tends to like it when he gets to command troops and so forth. Has ceremonial superiority over the Tuqi of the Left. Likes attacking the Liang, tends to favor alliances with the Yang.
Tuqi of the Left: Wise King of the Left, a subking controlling the western armies and territory of the Houqin. Tends to like it when he gets to command troops and so forth. Pissed that he's ceremonially inferior to the Tuqi of the Right. Wants to spend more time fighting the Tantan, angry that little is being done about their raiding thus far.
Inner Court: the close associates, eunuchs, and harem of the dynast. Tend to be yes-men. Currently favor an invasion of Wu, though this changes frequently and is based on whim more often than not.
State bureaucracy: the dudes who end up running things. Selected due to recommendations from other bureaucrats, and as such the organization is stacked with nobility. No examinations have been put into place. Tends to like self-aggrandizement. Doesn't like being shaken up or messed with by the dynast.
Da Yuezhi: 'Great Yuezhi', also known as the Tocharians, an Indo-European group. Formerly a large pastoral group from the Gansu, ended up conquering the Yellow River valley some centuries ago and raised their chief up to the rank of emperor upon the collapse of the Qi. Many of them lead settled lives now but in an effort to maintain military superiority that is slowly losing ground to the inexorable forces of time a slowly dwindling number still live on the fringes of the empire and live as nomads. Tend to like military offensive operations and plunder and 'maintaining the cultural unity of the Yuezhi'.
Sun clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Sun family. Thoroughly Daoist. Many of the Sun are military officers, especially in the southern Liang territories. Tend to approve of conquests and see a future for themselves in a reunified China.
Xu clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Xu family. Loosely associated with policies of retrenchment, but chiefly favor conquests outside of the Chinese states - i.e. from the Houqin and from Jin-guk.
Inner court: the close associates, eunuchs, and harem of the dynast. Tend to be yes-men. Favor various policies on a whim, easy to manipulate. Currently favor retrenchment after the last round of wars.
Royal bureaucracy: the dudes who end up running things. Selected due to recommendations from other bureaucrats, and as such the organization is stacked with nobility. No examinations have been put into place. Tends to like self-aggrandizement. Doesn't like being shaken up or messed with by the dynast.
Zhu clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Zhu family. Occupy a large number of the military posts in the northern parts of the empire, and heavily invested in various forms of under-the-table trade with the Houqin and Liang. Tend to oppose wars with either of those. Currently has sights set on increasing the numbers of Zhu associates in the bureaucracy.
Gu clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Gu family. They are mostly Buddhists and support the expansion of Buddhism within the Yang territories. Tend to oppose external wars, especially with the Nanyue.
Lu clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Lu family. Hold a majority of the military posts in the eastern portion of the empire. Outraged over the mistreatment of Lu officers during the last war with Wu, currently demanding control over larger numbers of troops and a return to war with Wu. Stringently oppose giving the Gu clique so much as a farthing.
Buqu: represents the paid hereditary quasi-mercenary soldiers in the army. Tend to oppose external wars unless they are given a sizable share of the plunder, in which case they love them. Also tend to like getting pay raises, which they recently did.
Inner court: the close associates, eunuchs, and harem of the dynast. Tend to be yes-men. Favor various policies on a whim, easy to manipulate. Currently favor an expansion of naval trade facilities.
Royal bureaucracy: the dudes who end up running things. Selected due to recommendations from other bureaucrats, and as such the organization is stacked with nobility. No examinations have been put into place. Tends to like self-aggrandizement, doesn't like a diminishing role. Were recently ousted from naval administration in favor of an Admiralty-like organization. Doesn't like being shaken up or messed with by the dynast.
Merchantry: the merchants, oddly enough. Tend to oppose wars, except with the aim of opening up further opportunities to trade. Approve of all naval expansion programs. Make up a large proportion of the membership of the admiralty. Also tend to be largely Buddhist.
Shi clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Shi family. Mostly Daoist. Currently make up a significant proportion of the land bureaucracy and army officer posts, favor war with Nanyue or Yang.
Xie clique: group of aristocrats loosely organized around the Xie family. Mostly Buddhist. Tend to favor retrenchment after the last round of wars.
Buqu: represents the paid hereditary quasi-mercenary soldiers in the army. Tend to oppose external wars unless they are given a sizable share of the plunder, in which case they love them. Also tend to like getting pay raises.
Royal court: play the same damn function the court does in every other Chinese state. They are currently in favor of an alliance with Yang. I suspect bribery.
Royal administration: again, more of the same - entrenched aristo-dominated bureaucracy. They don't like the whole 'concentrate on the navy' thing Nanyue has going.
Ying clique: the Ying family and their associates. They like the navy and they like peaceful trade. Perfect faction for alex, frankly. They differ from the merchantry in that they also have estates along the Wu border and as such violently oppose any tensions with Wu.
Anguo clique: the Anguo family and their associates. Currently favoring an attack on the Wu to destroy their rival navy and force them to convert to Buddhism.
Merchantry: the merchants, oddly enough, tend to support what merchants usually support. I know this is kind of short for you alex and I'll probably come back and revise this but I'm losing steam. Blame Kraz.
****.Karalysia said:
Army Assembly: the aristocratic generals and smallholding soldiers that make up much of the backbone of your army. They like successful wars with lots of plunder and lots of estates. Not just Greek, there are a large number of Medians in the group too, chiefly because of the cavalry. They also formally have to acclaim each new successor to the throne and arbitrate succession disputes.
Medioi: "Medians", the native Iranian people, specifically the big landowners who serve in your army as cavalry. They're also deeply Zoroastrian. Support any policies that you can justify with links back to the ancient Hakhaamahesh kings or back to Zoroaster.
Zoroastrian clergy: self-explanatory. I have no frickin clue why they are a separate faction from the Medioi, presumably I thought it was a good idea at the time. Anyway, these guys are like the Magi from the succession dispute Darius the Great had that one time back in the day. They like holy wars against infidels, just like the Magi did.
Sousiane: the region and satrap of Susiana, which is the area around Susa. The satrap has been given powers over all the territory from Fars up the Zagros all along the western border. Likes it when he is given money or when attention is given to his territory. Opposes war with the Seleukids on the grounds that he has under the table trade ties to the Seleukid authorities.
Parthyaia: the region of the capital Hekatompylos. The people here tend to favor fighting the Mazsakata and Baktrians, having attention showered upon them in various ways, you name it. Also much more heavily Hellenized than Sousiane.
Merchantry: obviously enough, the merchants. These guys are more land-focused than the Chinese merchants since Seleukid and Patalene guys have more or less taken over the carry trade in the Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea. So they favor accommodations with the Mazsakata and Tantan in order to safely move in the east, and if possible a short conquest of Sogdiane, although a long war would obviously be bad because it would funnily enough disrupt trade.
Basically, yep. Think of it like TTL's version of the Maccabees.Karalysia said:
Not a whole lot of these guys left, most of them went Sophist or converted to Zoroastrianism. Mostly a nonfactor.Karalysia said:
Mostly outright conversion. It's been a long and tortuous road converting many of the Hellenic and Mak settlers to Zoroastrianism, it's a fairly alien belief that doesn't incorporate their earlier worldview very easily. For awhile a sort of syncretistic Mithraism-type thing was popular, especially in the army, but that's slowly died out after centuries. Purges also played a large role.Karalysia said:
Most of it.Karalysia said:
Conflated with the Medians in Greek terminology. Not a lot of regional differentiation has existed between them for the last millennium anyway.Karalysia said:
The clergy and the bureaucracy are very intermixed (so far as the bureaucracy exists). Very caesaropapist, except without the papists.Karalysia said:
Greek.Karalysia said:
The Seleukids still exist, it's kind of hard to claim that title. The Seleukids were always 'Basileus' or 'Megas Basileus' anyway. The Areian rulers are represented on some bilingual coins as Shahs; Shahanshah would be reserved for a Megas Basileus.Karalysia said:
Greek is most commonly spoken, though Middle Persian is also widely spoken, especially in the west.Karalysia said:
Not the same level as, say, late Roman Gaul was 'Romanized'. But not as superficial as Roman Greece, either. They've been there for nine centuries after all. The thing is that the difference between 'Greek' and 'Iranian' isn't as stark as it is in most other Greek states. I'd say that most of the merchantry, most of the army, most of the landed gentry, and most of the urban population identifies as "Greek" insofar as a differentiation is made. The people that consciously keep 'Iranian culture' and the Iranian identity alive are generally the Median magnates who fight in your army and a lot of the rural population.Karalysia said:
Depends on which one is Target of the Week. Mazsakata tend to like raiding Areian territory, cause it's richer than Sogdiane. Baktria knows that a powerful Areia spells doom. Sogdiane has been willing to ally with whomever in pursuit of survival. Seleukids are generally opposed but since they've been getting the poopy end of the stick in the recent wars they've become more open to rapprochement than they were, but most of the leadership still opposes accomodation.Karalysia said:
Kaspeireia was more than willing to help Areia whale on Baktria before they realized Areia is scarier now. Armenia is glad for any respite in its ongoing collapse. Patalene opposes Areia over most trade-related questions and has the resources to win any naval war, and they have no mutual enemies. Perseids like having a weak Seleukid state to their east and would probably rather shore it up than gain a scary new neighbor.Karalysia said:
Not the same Sophists.Karalysia said:
It's the worship of the Holy Wisdom, or Hagia Sophia, a cult that originated with the worship of Athene by Greek polytheists back in the day. Starting with the vague characterizations of some fourth-century BC philosophers and eventually gaining steam in the first century AD, the cult ended up being the most enduring vestige of the Greek religion. It's monotheistic, and the prominent aspects of the worship of Sophia/Athene before the religion became the most revered ones in the new faith.It kind of took the role of Christianity in this world, chiefly because of interaction with Judaism. Originally the proto-Sophist Athene cult was tied strongly to the Perseid Empire and the temporal control it had over most of the Mediterranean. So there was a lot of dialogue between the proto-Sophists and the Jews, who were a dime a dozen in the Perseid heartland at that time. Sophism is in a lot of ways like a weird mixture of Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, and of course Greek polytheism. You could kinda compare it to Agade Dag from AFSNES too. I didn't really develop this very fully (and am very interested in player initiative), but there's a revealed text and a religious hierarchy connected with the Perseid Empire and their formerly close buddies the Baktrians. Holy city is, shockingly, Athens. When the Perseids lost Athens a few centuries back, actually, they lost control of a lot of the clergy that remained outside their territory, and the Perseid basileus' claim to be the head of the Sophist religion rang hollow. That's when the missionary impulse started (same thing with the Roman Empire and Christianity - "universal empire" became "universal empire of the faithful"), which added onto the already wide spread of the faith. No major lasting schisms yet, though I'm sure somebody'll think of something.
The OTL foundation for this is the concept of the Holy Wisdom that the Christians kind of pinched from some Greek philosophers (insofar as you can really separate the two groups in the first few centuries of Christianity), which in fact did develop out of Athene. It was subsumed into the Christian faith rather early. Now it's the other way around? I kind of had to have some replacement for Christianity since the course of Hebrew history got massively altered with no Maccabees.
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