Preview Thread: DaNES II: In Search of a Decent Title

[Dachs]

Glad to have you aboard, FA!

I didn't really consider that to be a fine point but something along the lines of clarification. But now that you bring it up:

@Dachs, what's your take on Kraz and my discussion on Nanyue?

The idea had originally been for Nanyue to have not been conquered by the Han or Qi at all, though they would obviously have been part of the tributary system; as you pointed out, though, this is somewhat unlikely. I would say that the Han were unable to conquer Nanyue before they met their untimely demise, and that the early Qi Emperors were the first to rule Nanyue, leaving one of the lesser princes of the Zhao family in charge as a vassal. When Qi started to have their problems within a century, the Nanyue viceroy wriggled his way into de facto independence, though only with the rise of the Yang did his descendants completely break free.

Nanyue, unlike the other areas south of the Yangzi, was therefore never heavily settled by the Chinese, and so forth, but they do have a history (if a rather short one) of indirect rule by Imperial China.

I'll guess I take Funan, then. I'm going to have fun with a medieval Vietnam war.

Ah, actually, I'd prefer that we get some of the main areas of action filled up. It wouldn't do to have most of the players on the periphery, while major states don't get any applicants at all. (Bill, post already! ) Funan is one of the states I'd intended to keep NPCed until everything else had a player.

 

[Flavius Aetius]

Glad to have you aboard, FA!

How I could not? The setting is fantastic, you are a very good mod and I have to redeem my performance as the UK in your last NES

 

[Karalysia]

When did Dachs ever mod a NES? I'm sure I would remember something like that.

 

[Flavius Aetius]

This is DaNES II, it's obivious Dachs already modded You probably were not into NESing yet, it was more than two years ago if I remember correctly.

 

[Karalysia]

Nah I would remember, I have magic powers like that.

Also to get into the spirit of things I was playing some EB as Bactria and I realized that Bactria has war elephants as do the Selucids and for some reason the Saka. Does Bactria, and Arsie employ war elephants?

 

[Omega124]

First, I can't be a Chinese rebellion, now, I can't have an epic unification of Southeast Asia under the Khmers. /What/ possible can I play?

 

[Kraznaya]

I apologize, I should have clarified myself in my earlier post. The existence of Nanyue as an actual viable entity in a NES is itself a novel concept. In my memories of the super-vast majority of neses played, Nanyue simply does not exist or barely registers.

Secondly, the induction I was speaking of was not of this nes but my fraternity's induction ceremony for our new pledges tonight. I admit I wasn't as clear as I should have been so for that I again apologize.

And I also love how you took my statement to be in complete seriousness. I am actually completely aware of everything you mentioned; my own family is supposedly descended from Northern Song Dynasty generals exiled for various crimes to the South.

You need to stop taking me so seriously, frat boy. NESing of course calls for regional wankery of the highest order; besides, your antics of proclaiming everything east of the Mediterranean Chinese in NESes is well documented and deserving of quite a few responses. Where did your (assumingly) patrilineal line settle after they were settled? Was the Guangdongren appellation so far off? And admit it, having an adroit Chinese player counterpart has been a wet dream of yours for quite a while.

On a completely different note: I challenge your notion that Nanyue would never have been ruled by anything north of Guangxi after the Qin Dynasty. In one of the Chinese state's description, it states that the Han Empire collapsed roughly circa 50 BC. I am of the understanding that the greater steppe migrations simply sped up the demise of the Western Han Dynasty and led to a weaker consolidation under the Empire of Qi. That being said, I am still of the belief that the quickened death of the Western Han did not in anyway prevent the Western Han from conquering and ruling Nanyue. While I believe that the Western Han did not have sufficient time to complete a so-called "Sinification", I would argue they would at least demanded nominal control.

I also challenge the idea that OTL Nanyue was as autonomous from the Han as Tibet from the Ming; while that might necessarily be true for the first century of the Western Han, I would argue that Nanyue could possibly have been incorporated for roughly five to seven decades prior to the Han collapse and considering something very similar to the Rebellion of the Seven Princes was sure to take place in Ha, I doubt there would have been much autonomy. That being said, I planned to follow the idea that Nanyue gained and had its independence recognized during the Qi Dynasty (even if it was under nominal vassalage) and continue from there with a new dynasty claiming hereditary lineage to the first Zhao rulers.

But I guess this isn't for now

The idea had originally been for Nanyue to have not been conquered by the Han or Qi at all, though they would obviously have been part of the tributary system; as you pointed out, though, this is somewhat unlikely. I would say that the Han were unable to conquer Nanyue before they met their untimely demise, and that the early Qi Emperors were the first to rule Nanyue, leaving one of the lesser princes of the Zhao family in charge as a vassal. When Qi started to have their problems within a century, the Nanyue viceroy wriggled his way into de facto independence, though only with the rise of the Yang did his descendants completely break free.

Nanyue, unlike the other areas south of the Yangzi, was therefore never heavily settled by the Chinese, and so forth, but they do have a history (if a rather short one) of indirect rule by Imperial China.

Well the stat description does suggest the idea of a never-conquered Nanyue by labeling it as a conservative constant while all else is changing. In that sense by right of argument I maintain that everything I had said was correct before mod elucidation on the timeline. In any case, claiming tributaries as "rule by location" is nigh ridiculous, after all, who thinks Malaya was ruled from Beijing?

tl;dr: MY FAMILY WAS OSSIM NEVER CONQUERED

First, I can't be a Chinese rebellion, now, I can't have an epic unification of Southeast Asia under the Khmers. /What/ possible can I play?

Well, there is plenty of opportunity to incite Han Chinese rebellions and attempt Chinese unification under Dayang, which is probably culturally and ethnically the most "pure" of the Chinese dynasties anyway. Isn't that what you wanted in the first place?

 

[Cynovolans]

I'd like to apply for the Seleukid Empire as my first choice, second and third choices would be Kingdom of Chaonia and the Armenian Empire, respectively.


Experience

I've been in this forum for about a year. In that time I have joined quite a few NESes, and so far I've gotten to learn what my strengths in Nesing are.

ABNW2-Started out as Haiti, a small island empire with a weak economy. In the time I played as Haiti I tripled the size of the economy and made Haiti a regional power through expanding, and creating a decent navy. I even gained enough wealth to buy land in Africa(I then found out that racists slave-owners don't like it when Africans become their superiors). But after the Golden Age ended Haiti fell into civil war against 3 other factions. The Cubans then invaded, and Haiti was lost.

FANES II-In this NES, I focused on the goal of making the Bulgarian Empire, the Roman Empire. I did this by starting a project to Hellenize the country to increase the connection with the Byzantine empire, and secured Mongol recognition of the Bulgarian emperors claim to the throne of Byzantium.

BirdNES 3-As the Malacca Sultanate I conquered a local sultanate, founded a colony on Borneo, and increased the wealth of Malacca.

MilarNES I-Created the nation Damietta, expanded around the Red Sea and Eastern Mediterranean, but I remained somewhat isolated even after coming into contact with other nations.

MilarNES II-Created the Feicui Empire based in Hainan, like a problem I had with MilarNES I and fresh-start NESes I remained isolated. Though normally I don't remain so isolated in NESes that aren't fresh-starts.


NESing Strengths

My favorite nations to play are ambitious nations. When I play a nation that has a goal I try to work hard on achieving that goal, whether it involves becoming the most powerful, wealthiest, or the most cultured empire in the world. I'll get orders in on time, and make them as clear and concise as possible.

 

[alex994]

@Dachs, how badly has the oceangoing trade in East Asia collapsed? In Funan's description, you seem to imply that it's either been weakened or disrupted severely.

Spoiler Chinese babble :

You need to stop taking me so seriously, frat boy. NESing of course calls for regional wankery of the highest order; besides, your antics of proclaiming everything east of the Mediterranean Chinese in NESes is well documented and deserving of quite a few responses. Where did your (assumingly) patrilineal line settle after they were settled? Was the Guangdongren appellation so far off? And admit it, having an adroit Chinese player counterpart has been a wet dream of yours for quite a while.

Everything east AND west of the Mediterranean should be Chinese. But since the earth is round, everything east of the Mediterranean being Chinese simply leads to Western Mediterranean being Chinese too

Technically, my patrillineal line begins with the late Zhou Dynasty and that of a fallen Zhou Prince who fled south to somewhere in Central China where their descendants somehow got involved with the Northern Song. In later generations, running afoul of court politics, they were subsequently exiled to the south. While most Cantonese people are either from Taishan or Hong Kong, we're actually from a little town called Kaiping where the only thing of significant is the "dialou", recently added to the UNESCO World Heritage Sites list.

And no, having an adroit Chinese player counterpart has not been a wet dream of mine for a while. That's actually stopped being a concern of mine a year or two ago; I guess I grew out of that phase.

Well the stat description does suggest the idea of a never-conquered Nanyue by labeling it as a conservative constant while all else is changing. In that sense by right of argument I maintain that everything I had said was correct before mod elucidation on the timeline. In any case, claiming tributaries as "rule by location" is nigh ridiculous, after all, who thinks Malaya was ruled from Beijing?

I would argue that it would really all depend on how strong the master-vassal relationship was. But that's really a moot point

 

[Birdjaguar]

In Order of preference:

Yamato
Wu
Aegyptos
Jin Guk
Ystrad Clud

Experience: Played and modded games since 2006.

EDITED

When did Dachs ever mod a NES? I'm sure I would remember something like that.

He hasn't modded anything since your join date.

 

[alex994]

In Order of preference:

Yamato
Wu
Jin Guk (No finances in stats for this one)
Ystrad Clud (No finances in stats for this one)

Experience: Played and modded games since 2006.

Could you go west please? Pretty please? Having modded one of my favorite neses of all times, you know all my cheap tricks

Good to nes with you again bird

I was joking in the earlier remark

 

[Birdjaguar]

Thanks Alex.

Karalysia, Abaddon, and you all in the neighborhood would be interesting.

 

[Kraznaya]

While most Cantonese people are either from Taishan or Hong Kong, we're actually from a little town called Kaiping where the only thing of significant is the "dialou", recently added to the UNESCO World Heritage Sites list.

So you're a farmer. Go back to your place, little farmer.

Jin Guk (No finances in stats for this one)
Ystrad Clud (No finances in stats for this one)

They don't have finances because they're perma-NPCs.

Karalysia, Abaddon, and you all in the neighborhood would be interesting.

Just call him the metal inferior to gold so you stop conflating his name with mine. >__>

 

[alex994]

So you're a farmer. Go back to your place, little farmer.

That was before my parents immigrated to the US. *bam* We own restaurants now Social mobility FTW. We need to end this conversation.

 

[Karalysia]

Just call him the metal inferior to gold so you stop conflating his name with mine. >__>

My evil plot is working. Soon you'll start receiving my infractions and bans.

 

[Bill3000]

First Choice: Basileus Andronikos I of the Perseid Empire

Second Choice: Truchsen Willahelm of the Kingdom of Walhaland

NESing Strengths: procrastination, linguistic obsessions

Er... I was in a single NES; FarowNES. I think I did okay for my first try.

 

[Dachs]

Awesome, keep the apps coming! Remember, the countries with bolded names are the ones that are available. I'd like to make sure the big stuff gets filled up before we start moving into the periphery; it'd kinda suck to have to NPC big states like the Pala Empire!

Does Bactria, and Arsie employ war elephants?

No. They ran out of elephants some time ago. You could theoretically acquire more if you were to either trade with Indian powers or conquer Indian territory. This would be quite expensive.

First, I can't be a Chinese rebellion, now, I can't have an epic unification of Southeast Asia under the Khmers. /What/ possible can I play?

One of the countries with a bold name in the stats!

India, Central Asia, and Western Europe are kinda sparse...

Well the stat description does suggest the idea of a never-conquered Nanyue by labeling it as a conservative constant while all else is changing. In that sense by right of argument I maintain that everything I had said was correct before mod elucidation on the timeline. In any case, claiming tributaries as "rule by location" is nigh ridiculous, after all, who thinks Malaya was ruled from Beijing?

tl;dr: MY FAMILY WAS OSSIM NEVER CONQUERED

@Dachs, how badly has the oceangoing trade in East Asia collapsed? In Funan's description, you seem to imply that it's either been weakened or disrupted severely.

The trade routes to and from the Indian Ocean themselves have somewhat declined in importance ever since Funan lost control of the Isthmus of Kra. Doesn't mean nothing gets through, though. It's mostly Funan's problem, really.

 

[Nuka-sama]

Cambrian Confederacy if I could
Pala Empire is second
Rygia third

My Nesing strengths mainly are diplomacy and writing stories as a secondary, with military planning as third

In A Brave New World, I invaded the Papal States as Savoy with Sicilian aid, and after Rome was conquered, I secured Sicily to become a part of the new Italian Empire, unifying Italy without further bloodshed. When the War of the Second Union came, I was able to seize the Adriatic Coast from Austria.

 

[Karalysia]

@Dachs, the tribal countries the Massageta, the Big Red Blob and others have negative income, so what are the implications of that exactly? They eat into their treasury? What happens when one runs out of money entirely? I take it the tribes end up raiding and looting, but what about civllized nations? Disbanding forces?

 

[Dachs]

Disbanding forces, raiding, firing bureaucrats or retainers, figuring out some other way to increase revenue or decrease expenditure. If you don't manage to do enough of the abovementioned stuff and eliminate your deficit, you do end up eating into the treasury.