unrest and moving through enemy territory

Hi we have discovered a strange phenomenon in a CRC pbem, See http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8941837#post8941837 With the Japanese civ in total unrest the Roman troops could use Japanese railways to travel anywhere while at war with them.
We need someone who understands the game mechanics better than I do. Does anyone know how this can happen?

Interesting!

If that is the case, it may never have been noticed because the AI usually does not have cities go into civil disorder. And you would have to be late into the game to notice.

This could be tested in a game, by simply taking out entertainers as an option, setting up a game locked in war, give AI huge cities that it cannot keep happy, railways, and then give it a shot.

Tom

Waiting for results...

tom2050 said:

Interesting!

If that is the case, it may never have been noticed because the AI usually does not have cities go into civil disorder. And you would have to be late into the game to notice.

This could be tested in a game, by simply taking out entertainers as an option, setting up a game locked in war, give AI huge cities that it cannot keep happy, railways, and then give it a shot.

Tom

Click to expand...

TOM, it not a question of WHETHER this can happen but rather WHY it happens. He is talking about a pbem game. I tested it to see what was happening (actual game), and indeed it does happen. I was able to capture a large number of the japanese cities with a single unit moving from one city to the next utilizing the enemies railroads without regard to territorial ownership. The japanese were about to win a territorial, population, culture and space race victory (they were about to complete and launch their spaceship) and I was able to negate that by capturing about 30% of their cities and destroying their spaceship in the process, because I was able to use their railroads and capture all these empty cities. I was only stopped when I encountered enemy cities that did have units in them.

The Guardian said:

TOM, it not a question of WHETHER this can happen but rather WHY it happens. He is talking about a pbem game. I tested it to see what was happening (actual game), and indeed it does happen. I was able to capture a large number of the japanese cities with a single unit moving from one city to the next utilizing the enemies railroads without regard to territorial ownership. The japanese were about to win a territorial, population, culture and space race victory (they were about to complete and launch their spaceship) and I was able to negate that by capturing about 30% of their cities and destroying their spaceship in the process, because I was able to use their railroads and capture all these empty cities. I was only stopped when I encountered enemy cities that did have units in them.

Click to expand...

You mean the enemy left some of it's cities completely undefended? Were you able to use enemy roads as well as railroads (I assume you would).

So if an enemy city is in civil disorder, then the roads/railroads within the enemies territory can be used by it's enemies (as well as those not at war with that civ?).

As far as why, I don't think we can really know. We know that civil disorder causes the city to have no defense (other than the unit fortified) also, so perhaps this was something Firaxsis put in, forgot to mention, didn't want and then forgot to take back out ??

Tom

This happens because the CIV Loses Control.
When a CIV is in Total Unrest it loses control and that includes territory. Roads and Railroads that are not under control can then be used by any other CIV.
I happen to agree with that programming as it makes sense

But it doesn't work that way for the player, does it? I've never noticed the AI using my roads when my cities are rioting, and I'm sure I can still demand that they leave.

What if ALL your cities are in unrest?

Takhisis said:

What if ALL your cities are in unrest?

Click to expand...

This is not the case in the given game...

I am the player of Japan, btw.

Ah, good. can you use those rails? Do they still communicate your unrestful cities?

It'd be helpful if someone from the game would upload a recent SAVE file, and also the BIQ that you were all using.

Takhisis said:

Ah, good. can you use those rails? Do they still communicate your unrestful cities?

Click to expand...

When I played my last turn everything was as it should be. All of my cities gained resources and I could travel all rails as normal.

Over in the other thread, TheOverseer714 suggested that the .sav file got corrupted. I came to the same conclusion, because CivAssistII refuses to load that file. (Aborts with a strange error.)

Unfortunately none of us PBEM players has enough insight into these technical details and the sav file format, but perhaps someone could investigate the file (attached to the other thread) using one of those special .sav file tools?

I don't know the format of that file, but I could imagine that the information whether one nation has a RoP with another one, is stored somewhere in the file in a boolean matrix? In this case a possible explanation would be, that the entry for "RoP between Rome and Japan" has been flipped from "false" to "true", leading to the very strange situation where these two nations now have a RoP with each other while being at war...

In any case: before continuing that game I would let some expert make a health-check of the .sav file. Perhaps the RoP table is not the only location that's broken?! This game has now been going on for almost 5 years, so a week more or less won't matter much... Better than continuing in this "broken state" and risking more damage (up to the point where the file becomes completely un-playable).
It would really be great to see this "True Epic" come to a worthy conclusion!

(And if the thing can really be fixed, then no one would have to replay his turn!)
Lanzelot

Looks like it is a bug as I could still move when there was no unrest.
See other thread.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8969097#post8969097

Thanks for the input. It would make a good feature if movement was easier when enemy cities were in unrest. Probably more true to life too

I think it's data corruption.