SGOTM 11 - Plastic Ducks

@kossin:

Indeed, but that would be for the next part of the turnset (doesn't change anything these 3 turns)

What I'd like to know before playing (which should be a quick affair):

1. Postpone OB with Saladin till next part?
2. Refuse silly stop-trading-with demands from everyone?
 
^^Well it does impact what you do with the worker... no point sending 2 2S of Vijay when 1 will do the job. We can get an earlier settler out of Bombay this way.

1. Maybe safest to avoid Justinian demands - we won't be getting any trade routes just yet anyway
2. Yes
 
Workers complete farm T113 and are free to move T114 which is where these few turns stop, so they're free to do whatever we want later, I think.
 
Ah ok.. fair enough. We could gain one turn chopping by only sending one worker to farm, and then on to cows once he's done. The other to chop E of Bombay.
 
Now Let's come to ToA, for 275 hammers, we get 5 GPP + 1H + 1G + 3B + double trade route income each turn. When currency and burea bonus kick in, we could gain at least 6C from the trade route income and this bonus getting more when the size of Delhi and AI's capital growing bigger. I don't even need to mention the earlier gain before CS, the gain after CS from ToA is 5GPP + 1.5H + 1G + 5.25B + 6C each turn, How many turns do we need to make it profitable for the hammers we invest?

I worldbuildered in ToA to check... the 100% to trade routes isn't added, but it's a multiplier of the base 1.00:commerce: trade route.

Meaning we gain 1 commerce from each trade route.

The actual yield from ToA is then 10GPP (Philo)+1.5H(bureau)+1G+5.25B+2C.

Of course trade routes value will increase over time but it isn't that strong as it obsoletes at SM of course.

Back to HG: since we'll most likely build most of it under Bureaucracy but Aqueduct pre-CS, total cost is
450/2.5+150 = 180+150 = 330H

We've already put 50H in ToA so 475 are left. The difference however is it will be complete before Bureaucracy so the cost really is
475/2 = 237.5

So the actual hammer difference is more like 100H in build cost.
3 pop is already better across the empire but then you have to factor in the extra yield from ToA in Delhi. It starts getting complicated however as we also need to consider the pop points that we won't whip in the cities.

Finally there's the odds we lose out on it which are actually high (especially if we don't whip!)

In a perfect world, I'd take both of them. I think we need to carefully make this decision.

How soon are we going to obsolete ToA? Do we want something post-SM from Liberalism? (say Biology/Electricity/Radio?)
 
Bonne chance, tu cherches un nouveau boulot ou ce sont des contrats?

Non, des entretiens pour un stage.
Ca y est, très bien passé, mais j'ai un autre demain matin.:p

Do we plan on OR and revolting to Confu somewhere in the future? (at least for short bursts it could be useful)

I also like HG for the GE points, but I guess we can always run an Engineer post-Metal Casting and hope for the best again. Still, that doesn't completely bar out HG, it tends to go post-AD and there should be a time when Delhi doesn't have too much things to do.

Hindu or Judaism will probably spread to the cities we built offshore to the east. We can play a lot with the Religion staff.

About GE, the problem is that there will be too much GPP pollution in Delhi and I'd like to ensure the GE with some necessary measures.

I don't know if it's appropriate on Emperor, but on Deity, I prioritize purer GPP to more GPP. I'm no opportunist in a no-reload game.
 
Hmm.. anyways... I'll be off for a a few hours.

I'm hoping we can aggree on these turns tonight (I'm allways optimistic :)).

Need a couple more on my 2 questions above. Also if we're changing worker-assignment. Is everyone ok with 1 worker moving to farm for a turn (or two), then onto pigs/cow while the other former farmer (worker 2) goes to start chopping E of Bombay (using 1 turn to move there, then chops for 1 turn).
 
@ Bugg:

I don't think it can go wrong in these few turns, go ahead as you wish.
Just don't forget to move back the warrior.
 
Just one turn of farm, then one turn of road on pigs then start pasture on cows or they'll be late.

Don't see why we'd close borders, we'll be relying on them for a good part of our economy.

Regarding OB: Justinian has a base +5 towards Saladin and Saladin +4 towards Justinian. Even with religion they're only Cautious with each other as a result rather than annoyed. It's safe to assume neither will ask to stop trading (maybe re-negotiate the corn deal?) for a while and later on both will be under Theo, probably Pleased at each other. Same for Zara I guess. We can OB with Saladin, it won't make any difference I think.

@dingding
Ah bien, merde en avance.
 
Ugh

How'd you know :)

Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

Zara settled and blocked our preferred spot completely. I guess that's about it. At least now we know our options.

Didn't OB Saladin, although he's now connected to our network, so we could. He has a coastal site (although a small one) EDIT: west of 3 gold+fish. (Do you want more screenshots, or will you edit testgame, kossin?)

Decided to use 1 workerturn to mine in Vijay, no point moving towards preferred site (it's not cancelled, so we'll have to remember that).

EDIT: Noone built GLH yet, just figured I should mention that too :)

Turnlog:
Spoiler :

Turn 111, 1225 BC: The borders of Bombay have expanded!

Turn 112, 1200 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Vijayanagara.
Turn 112, 1200 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Vijayanagara.
Turn 112, 1200 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Vijayanagara.

Turn 113, 1175 BC: Delhi will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 113, 1175 BC: Justinian I has founded Antioch in a distant land.
Turn 113, 1175 BC: Zara Yaqob has founded Lalibela.

Turn 114, 1150 BC: Delhi has grown to size 5.
Turn 114, 1150 BC: Vijayanagara can hurry The Great Lighthouse for 2? with 14? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 114, 1150 BC: The borders of Pataliputra are about to expand.

 
Oh well too bad.

That's definitely Isabella's culture across Zara.

Borders should have been opened the previous turn with Saladin, but it's no biggie I guess.

EDIT: updating test game...
 
Yes, definately Izzy over there.

I was in "we don't OB yet" mode, so just didn't OB. We'll OB this turn and take it from there :blush:
 
New test game.

Hopefully we meet the rest of the AIs so I can update the map more precisely without it taking 40 years (not that it's that important I guess at this point).
 

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Alright, for the second part of Bugg's set (11 turns?), we need to decide:

-5th city site
-worker micro
-AI-to-AI deals
-GLH whip or no
-next city builds and city micro (whip/caste etc.)
-next tech (I'm assuming CS here)
-beg gold?

I'm all for sending city #6 overseas but it'll need an escort (Axe is safest), unless we find a small island.
 
Was just about to make a shortlist myself :)

First off: I really appreciate the work you put into updating testgames.

My turnset should be start of 1225- start of 850BC (15x25 years), so 11 full turns remain, ending start of 850BC.

A good way to proceed could be to aggree on the real important stuff

1. Whip/no-whip in Vijay
2. Location of 5th site
3. Location of 6th site maybe? (But that will also depend on exploration, so will maybe require another halt to discuss)
4. Builds in all 5 cities
5. Tech (I'm assuming CS as well)
6. Diplo (We definately beg for gold)
7. Tech-trading (If alpha becomes available during turnset, I suggest a halt to discuss strategy .. I generally suck at it)
8. Civics (together with builds)
 
5th city: 3 options
1- horse+fish+forests (chop another settler or wb?)
2- triple clams (takes a while to get online so earlier = better?)
3- on Rice (cottage it up)

Worker micro will vary depending what we choose to do with 5th city.

OB with Saladin and try to connect to his Capital network. Keep OB with everyone.

No GLH whip... there's probably one AI that can compete for it so odds are on our side.

Delhi: grow to 7 then start settler (3-pop whip or no whip? We've got one cottage and workers are busy elsewhere I think so 3-pop whip is not necessarily bad)
Bombay: another settler then grow to 3/4 (Axe for settler escort)
Vijay: if we don't whip Delhi, it has time for wb>Galley. If not Galley after GLH
Pali: grow on granary. Start settlers at size 5 (2-pop whip) or let it grow further to work specs (size 8/9)

Currency>CS
What if someone grabs Alphabet? Trade for it?

We might be able to beg some gold from Zara after Currency is done... what amount should we try to beg for?
 
5th city: 3 options
1- horse+fish+forests (chop another settler or wb?)
2- triple clams (takes a while to get online so earlier = better?)
3- on Rice (cottage it up)

2. I think I don't want it first even if it takes a while to set up. 2 reasons : It'll need workboats to be effective, we can't spare production to help right now and I don't want it to take over cows or marble to help itself out, since I'd rather let Vijay use them for now (Especially if we're not whipping GLH).

3. It can start working cottages, grow, whip infra.. could be allright

1. I like this because it blocks Zara, it can help produce a WB from forest (Leaving Vijay with 1 WB and Galley before workers/settlers maybe?), and can be productive by itself fairly quickly (We're gonna need alternate sites for building more workers/settlers ASAP).


Will get into the other stuff later.
 
Alright here's the first move for this turn:
move chariot on cows and OB with Izzy. Maybe we should do this before planning on continuing the set?
 
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