DMOC's DEITY Game #3 - Willem van Oranje

Hey I had that same problem oncem with the missing text. For me, simply reinstalling both bug and then bull worked.

Also you did make backups before installing, right? If so, replace the files with the backups you made, redo the entire thing and then it might just work.

Shurdus said:

Hey I had that same problem oncem with the missing text. For me, simply reinstalling both bug and then bull worked.

Also you did make backups before installing, right? If so, replace the files with the backups you made, redo the entire thing and then it might just work.

Click to expand...

Well, when I upgraded from 3.6 to 4.4 for BUG, I clicked on the "create backup" while installing. However, I have no idea WHERE the backups are.

Anyway I'm going to head to the BUG forum and bump my old topic once I reinstall BUG.

bug+bull is usually in 2 places

1st is in customassets which are located (depending on OS) in your "Documents" that are usually found in vista users\xxx(name)\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\CustomAssets (i would delete the directory)

2nd in installation directory of game (if you didnt say otherwise) c:\program files\Sid Meiers Civilization 4\Beyond The Sword\Assets where is CvGameCoreDLL.dll file that should be reverted to original (thats for removing bull)


edit:the problem you describe i had once when i started game with locked modified assets (the game is confused since it can't load custom assets from users but has wrong *.dll)

Problem is Bull has its own Civ 4.dll file, that needs to replace the original Civ4.dll file. back up the original 1st!!!!!!!!!

BUG is a straight forward install, Bull I had Problems with, till Emperors fool (A misnomer in name) pointed out what I had to do...and yeah....worked.

Back to Game, after arguing with my screen about move 1 North you fool, and getting no response (how Rude can you get!!!), I realize that would lose out 2 Hills for unknown territory to the East, and a Marble that needs masonry to improve.

Settle in Place. As much as I love Rivers, Dykes (both types) (that's sea and fresh water perverts)

Bah, I'm too persuasive, I say dance the settler to the Eastern floodplain, get a look at land you'll be taking if you move 1 North, or 1 North East, and make a decision then.

My decision is NO DECISION.

DMOC back with a game. Nice. Subscribed. To me it looks like settle in place. 2 food resources in the first ring. 2 flood plains for cottages and enough mountains for production.

But doesn't the dike have to be built on either a river or the coast? (and not a lake, as in this case?). Seems like I need to test out the unique building.

Click to expand...

From the CivIV Reference Guide:
can only be built in coastal or river city

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I think the reference guide is wrong in this case, you just need water or river access. There is no minimum area size set in the xml for the Dike, which might otherwise exclude lakes. (Lighthouses, harbours, etc... have a value of 10, which is why you can't build them on lakes).

Good luck with your interface problems, I had the same thing a while back; unfortunately, I did have to do a full reinstall.

I'd say SiP as well. Going 1N to get the Marble hardly makes up for the loss of hills. You're also Creative, so you'll have access to the resource pretty soon.
Even if there's no seafood to the NW of Amsterdam, it should still be possible to plant a small city along the coast to grow cottages for Amsterdam before Civil Service.


What is the length of the sets you intend to play ?

Carboniferous said:

I think the reference guide is wrong in this case, you just need water or river access. There is no minimum area size set in the xml for the Dike, which might otherwise exclude lakes. (Lighthouses, harbours, etc... have a value of 10, which is why you can't build them on lakes).

Click to expand...

You're correct. I WBed a similar start:

4000 BC - Settled in Place

Here is the capital now. The settling revealed an extra source of marble.



The reason why I stopped here now is to get some feedback on my research path. Sometimes I feel that a research path is a no-brainer decision. In this start, I do not think it is the case.

I am thinking of several strategies, all of which assume I will not find a source of horse. I do not think it is likely to have horses in the capital's third ring. (It is impossible to have it in the capital's second ring.)

1. Hunting -> Animal Husbandry -> Archery
2. Animal Husbandry -> The Wheel -> Hunting -> Archery
3. Animal Husbandry -> The Wheel -> Pottery -> Hunting -> Archery
4. Animal Husbandry -> Mining -> Bronze Working

The first strategy is the safest strategy - get archery ASAP. Hunting is researched before Animal Husbandry in order to act as prerequisites to both AH and Archery.

The second strategy takes in the knowledge that the worker I start with will not have anything to do after farming and pasturing the 2 respective tiles (other than farming floodplains), so the Wheel is used to use the worker productively. Farming the rice takes 8 turns; pasturing the pigs takes 6 turns.

The third strategy is risky - it assumes the starting warrior and any resulting warriors produced can ward off the barbarians easily enough so that the starting worker can cottage early.

The fourth strategy assumes that Mining and Bronze Working will be helpful early to chop and use production in the capital to our advantage. (The marble can be mined, giving the worker another thing to do.)

There are also different combinations of technology paths other than what I mentioned. What really hurt this start is that Willem has Fishing as a technology, which is useless now.

It is worth noting in the screenshot I have that the worker will be done in 22 turns, so the worker will start improving tiles two turns after Animal Husbandry is reserached. In other words, if I do not start with Animal Husbandry, the worker will be forced to farm the rice first, and then wait until Animal Husbandry is completed.

Tricky. I typically wouldn't think twice about AH first. I understand the first option, though, especially as this is a large and less than crowded map. Looks a bit like you may not need fogbusting N or E... I'd go AH, play through it and leave the options on second tech open for now.

Intresting so the plains hill I talked is in fact a Marble tile while I guess that makes the Oracle a priority now though I wouldn't want to sacrifice empire growth for it however if you find time to build it. One wonder you defenatly want though is the Great Library since it helps the +2scientists help a lot early in the game. Looking at the tech paths 2 seems to be the best choice for me AH will allow you hook up the pigs and also find out Horses you start with Agri so you can hook up the rice. Wheel will allow you connect youre resources and also with horses allow for chariots to be build (if horses are nearby and there is a pesky enemy you might do youre first conquest with chariots) and you will need archery since barbs are really a problem in deity though. Afterwards get Pottery and Masonry going through Mysticism and Polytheism. I f you are lucky and Judaism hasn't been founded you can go for Monotheism and found the religion. Otherwise head for Bronze working next to find cooper. Of course some of this might be changed depending on the neighbours of course. Well good luck DMOC and let's see if we can finish this before the demo of CiV.

The pig is arguably the best tile but AH is an awkward tech choice here, especially as it's probably not going to find horses. I think I might ignore the pig for the moment - wet rice is decent food to be going on with, as are those financial floodplains begging to be cottaged. You might pasture the pig and then only use it for 5 turns or something before you hit happy cap - is it worth the delay on the other techs just for that?

How about:

5. Wheel, hunting, archery, pottery, mining, bronze working, animal husbandry?

I think the wheel is strong here not only because of the FP cottages but because the city will need to connect to the river before long, and a road through rice, marble and that western line of hills wouldn't hurt either. Get 2 or 3 of those roads done and pottery should be just about coming on line.

Normal game I'd do AH-Mining-BW, but deity is a whole different beast.

I'd still go AH first, and then in that time, decide on the next course of action.

Well normally i would go AH first here too... the 1st variant is not actually that bad I would think.

I saw in SGOTM of Kossin's team nice starting trick with teching first few turns 2nd tier tech if you don't happen to meet neighbor with some 1st tier tech you dont have to get discount. Hunting is a bit common... maybe some r_rolo1 magic could help if it's worth to try for the discount?

I recommend AH first.

Whether you need Archery will depend on what kind of terrain you uncover to the south and to the east.

To the south, you have a nice forested grassland hill that your warriors can hide in. This will protect your southern front. On the north and west, you are mostly protected by coast.

This leaves the eastern front, and from the screenshot there is no obvious location where your warriors can defend well. You will need to scout at least to the plains hill to the east to determine whether you have adequate terrain to defend with merely warriors.

I've been looking at this map, and I am just going to do AH. I've done some brief calculations via a simulation, and it seems like having the worker improve the pigs is so much better for early growth. 6F 1C easily beats a 5F tile, despite the fact that it's not a grain.

I'll only play until I research Animal Husbandry (or if the situation is obvioius I can continue after that).

Round 1: 4000 BC to 3125 BC [35 Turns] - The Unkind Map Creator


As I mentioned before, I settled in place and started a worker, who could improve the rice tile in the capital and the pigs (only if I researched Animal Husbandry). The other options were not appealing.

• Warrior - No, because I want my food improved immediately.
• Settler - I need to explore first and get warriors for security.
• Barracks -

Since my warrior was heading east, I decided to keep him going in that direction. In retrospect, it probably would have been best to head west first, but I could not have known that in advance. Oh, and I started with Animal Husbandry first, to see if there are horses nearby and to improve the pigs. In all honesty, unless the horses ended up in the third ring of the capital (easy to get with Creative), it would be hard to use them as a security against barbarians, especially on a large map.

Once I finished Animal Husbandry, I began The Wheel, as you can see below. I had to think long and hard about which technology to pick.

• The Wheel - Allows the worker to continue improving the capital with roads, prerequisite for pottery. [Boosted by Financial]
• Hunting - The safe path. Allows Archery, but forces the worker to be idle.
• Mining - Not very useful, despite being a prerequisite for Bronze Working, because there is only one mineable tile in the capital - the marble - that is going to be quarried over eventually for the extra commerce.
• Mysticism - Not useful, since Willem is Creative
• Sailing - You must be joking.
• Writing - You must be joking.
• Horseback Riding - You must be joking.

I settled on The Wheel. I figured that I would meet new AI's because of the map structure (Big and Small on a massive continent is similar to a Pangea). Furthermore, this is an excellent capital for laying cottages and The Wheel leads to Pottery. Finally, the only barbarian threat could come from the south and southeast to us, so as long as there are some warriors there on some good locations, I don't see barbarians to be a big problem early. If archery is ever necessary, having roads in the capital early thanks to The Wheel would be useful for tactically moving the archers.



(Yes, Tokugawa is in the game once again. )

As soon as the first worker was done, he naturally went to the best tile.



The pigs were pastured six turns later, and the 6F-1C tile was a great boost to the capital's growth. It soon reached size 2. While the worker was farming the irrigated rice (meaning that the improved tile would get 5 food instead of 4 for unirrigated), I decided to work the marble hill, to get a second warrior out fast. I felt that the second warrior would be necessary to help fogbost the eastern area while the first warrior was still exploring. Thankfully, he has not died yet. In fact, he's only seen one barbarian as of the end of this round, and a wounded warrior at that.



Once the warrior was done, I resumed maximum growth.



I concluded this round when the wheel was researched. We now know Fishing, Agriculture, The Wheel, and Animal Husbandry. The technology options are shown below. As horses have not been discovered at all, the Hunting -> Archery path is still a viable option, since Mining -> Bronze Working is both longer and riskier.



The map of the known world. I am debating on whether I should keep my western warrior on the hill or move him south of Amsterdam.



I have several city sites where I think the first city could, potentially, be created. Sites A, B, C, and D all have their advantages (and disadvantages).

• Site A - On top of a plains hill (+1 hammer), gets gold and pigs, can help the capital work cottages, but lacks much blocking and fogbusting value.
• Site B - Highest food options available, improves an otherwise uninspiring plains tile, riverside, but lacks gold.
• Site C - Gets corn and gold, but is not on a river and has many poor food tiles.
• Site D - On a river, has the most fogbusting value, but lacks gold.

Perhaps I will settle one of those sites; I could also settle south of Site D once the warrior finishes exploring that area. In my opinion, settling by the floodplains/corn area is a smarter move than settling by the west, towards Peter. Don't be fooled by the gold - the only city that has a reasonable amount of food to work that western gold would be a city on the plains hill to get the corn and gold, and Peter is likely to get that site before us. (On top of that, Peter only has 2 cities at the moment, so he is bound to found his third soon.)

Settling to the west to get the fish and cow could be an acceptable city, although it is not as great as any city would be by the eastern floodplains.



This looks like a challenging start with unfriendly neighbors, so I am curious to see how it unfolds.

The save is below.

just to enchant the debate i'm calling 1SE of Gold

I would settle site 3.

@Sian: Seconded. Leaves open a spot on the river and claims more land.

And again, for the sake of debate and considering that this is Deity where landgrab is paramount, I suggest you settle 2S of the southwestern gold, on the plains hill.

You will need a defensive position against Toku so not only does this city grab land and gold, it's somewhat easy to defend. Alternatively, if you're not feeling like setting up a defensive spot but rather a city that can be used together with the cow/fish location to block off Toks, settle on the desert 2N of the corn.