Gliese's Deity Game #2, Zara Yaqob

Told ya that barb city would be popping up...but at least it's not in a bad spot (I can't tell from Screenshot if those are inland lakes, with 3 food post lighthouse-if so then definitely keep it). Not sure how the espionage situation is going- have the AI's increased spending? (often a bad indicator of war...) It'll probably take a while to tech to literature for Great Library, so I wouldn't worry about hurrying the marble. It seems likely that buddhism will be spreading everywhere on this continent, so I hope it works out for the best for you once again.

If you settle E-SE of Libyan you can work the marble horse and cow, and get 4 freshwater tiles at 3F2C, a city 2N of Libyan would then get a great Moai location with 13 coastal waters. You won't be able to farm the eastern fish then, and get 3 cities in the north in stead of 4. I would go with the citysites with Libyan where it is. In that configuration Libyan will be a decent GPfarm, with rice, cows, 3 3F2C watertiles and alot of grassland. It will save you a settler and give you 4 free population. You can whip a lighthouse first thing and work those lakes sooner, for extra commerce and food.

Yes a barb city popped up but it's alright, I got the horses to the south so I can capture it later on, maybe even unlock the HE if I'm lucky and it popped up in a good spot. In any case I had enough on my hands just killing the hordes of barbs that crossed my northern borders to fogbust up there. It's indeed an inland lake though it seems I won't be able to work all of it.

It sounds like a good idea to whip the lighthouse first thing in Libyan as long as my happy cap is low (but hopefully I can at least trade for 1 happy resource as soon as I've hooked up a wheat).

Regarding exploration of the western landmass: I'm going to need a galley to get a settler over there so I thought I might as well go with that.

true; then I'd go with chariot/galley and use the galley only to drop the guy and run back.

galley vs galley is always meh...

Round 3, 825 BC - 50 BC (31 turns):

Techs: Writing, Aesthetics, Mysticism, Polytheism, Code of Laws, Iron Working, Priesthood, Meditation, Alphabet, Mathematics (part), Monarchy (part).

I researched Writing first with the goal of getting Literature and TGL. After additional calculations I noticed that my third city Lalibela would be a better GP farm with 4 specialists at size 7 compared to 4 at 8 in Libyan (miscalculated before).

800: Christian shrine BIDL. Nappy converts to buddhism. I trade sheep for sugar to Joao.

775: Trade wheat for dye to Joao.

750: I found my 4th city with the goal of getting marble in 3rd ring.



725: Writing -> Aesthetics. Nappy starts a golden age. SP BIDL, not good that going this early it means someone's had Aesthetics for some time.

600: I finish scouting the western landmass, it turns out to be a small island which will support 2 cities nicely. A barb city unfortunately popped up the same turn I landed a chariot and will need to be dealt with.



625: Joao converts to buddhism.

575: Joao aquires Alphabet and he has Aesthetics, curses! He's not the one who built the SP either.

500: MoM BIDL (Joao).

475: Aesthetics -> Mysticism. Confucian shrine BIDL. Nappy is WHEOOHRN. If he's after me I'm dead.

425: Myst -> Poly. I attack Libyan who has 4 archers (1 CG) with 8 level 1 chariots and a c1+cover archer with 7xp. I lose 6 chariots in the first wave, killing 3 archers and badly wounding the last, my archer wins a fight putting him at 9 xp.

400: I lose another chariot then attack with my archer at 71% odds and succeeds! He captures the city and reaches level 4 to unlock the HE.



350: Poly -> COL. The reason for starting on COL is that TGL is BIDL this turn on the other continent.
AP BIDL (Jewish). SoZ BIDL (Joao). HC gets Alphabet and I make my first tech trade (enabling COL research).



There's also a great work and it's not good news. We are getting pwned by the other continent.



300: A GS is born in Aksum at 53% odds, no Murphy's law about getting a GM after all. I use him for an Academy in the capital.

250: Nappy gets Alphabet and suggests a trade which I accept.



There's a barbarian uprising by my eastern borders consisting of 4 swordsmen, what are the odds?



I switch to slavery in order to whip another archer and send 2 nearby chariots down to join the lone archer already guarding the city. This proves to be just enough as my 2 archers wins their battles the next turn, making it a 2 for 2, I then kill both the remaining swordsmen with additional units.

225: So did I find any iron you ask? Indeed there's two sources I plan on getting my hands on, the first easily available and I seize on the opportunity to bolster my army.



200: I do a trade with Nappy (why didn't I trade for Monarchy?). I guess I was a bit overconfident in my trading ability. Well at least it's needed to unlock a philo bulb.



175: Good news everyone! Nappy dows Joao, apparently religion wasn't enough. I foolishly missed that Gondar actually got buddhism in 250 bc and convert when I realise my mistake.
The war makes diplomacy a bit less straightforward. I decide to cancel OB with Joao and switch the wheat for dye trade from him to wheat for wine with Nappy. I keep the sheep for sugar trade for now as Nappy has sheep and HC has no spare happy resources to trade me for it. Both Joao and HC has HR as favourite civic which we will all have adopted soon, Nappy will have to be handled more delicately as he's apt to throw a tantrum if he feels slighted.

100: COL -> Maths. I start on Maths with the goal of making a double trade next turn with HC and Nappy.

75: The next turn HC gets COL himself however so I switch research to Monarchy to try to trade for that with Nappy.

50: Nappy threaten me for COL. I think long on this but eventually I decide to give in. I don't feel like I'm in a position to piss him of just yet and as soon as the war with Joao ends he's going to be looking for excuses to attack me. That might be sooner rather than later since Joao is 3-0 in GGs thus far.

Giving in puts Nappy at pleased and since both the others are also pleased with me I decide it's a good time to beg a little. Nappy and Joao each gives me 40 gold but HC refuses. At last conclusive evidence that begging for 40 gold doesn't always succeeds even if it's the first time you ask (he had 50 total btw, I don't know if that affects his decision).

With all my plans shattered and scattered to the wind like usual I decide to end the round to consider my options and let you chime in.

First some landshots:



My 2nd source of iron is on the island, looks like a decent production city with workshops, HE material? 17 prod at size 6 with caste and MC, without lighthouse.







I'm advancing in demographics. There's a war abroad I think, at least an unknown GG was born and I think I've mapped out all Nappys cities.



Techs and relations:





Joao is the worst enemy of Nappy so care needs to be taken in trading with him, thus far he's not overly angry at Nappy though although he got attacked! Mostly bc of shared civic.

I need to decide on a new techpath, here are some options:

Monarchy: Enables HR for happiness and +relations with Joao and HC (the latter just sent an axe to scout my lands, his SOD are in his southernmost city which is closest to all of us so that doesn't say much).

Maths: Unlocks Calendar for 2 nice incense tiles for the capital. Also unlocks Civil Service and a Philo bulb with my next GS.

Literature: Unlocks the NE and HE.

Drama: Can be traded.

Compass: Can be traded. Harbors gives at least +3 commerce with GLH.

I have part of Maths and Monarchy researched already.

Should I switch from slavery to cs to speed up my next GS? It will be difficult to get him in time to bulb philo before at least one of the others gets it but it might be possible with some luck. Lalibela can decrease ETA from 21 turns to 10 or 11 if I make the switch.

Anything I should consider in regards to my builds? I'm currently focusing on units to clear the island and have started on a settler in the capital though I need 3 settlers in total to settle the rest of the land once the barb city is gone. I guess I also need to decide how many cottages and how many farms to go for. If I delay the NE then it makes more sense to run specialists everywhere soon to get the next couple of GSs sooner.

joao should be friendly with hr and religion; otherwise, he'll be a lousy trade partner

nappy... well, nappy is nappy... But anyway, while you have to pet him, remember that joao had 5 for wftybta(I think).

hc didn't busy with religions, so culture win is dubious. Also, the other continent has a good shot at it.

I'd go compass, part currency(eventually 1st), get currency, monarchy, maths(or that's the plan on paper but I don't really realize your research speed). Also, I'd station a chariot on the purposed city site on the small island, to prevent galleys from poping. Philo will allow you to backfill anyway, and nothing interesting up for grabs anytime soon(doubt the 1st guy discovering will part with cs and it'll take a while to research and benefit from compass anyway).

Otherwise, looks as grim as last time due to lack of food and commerce. One crappy map after another

Double post.

I would have gone for literature first.

Chop a monument in your marble city to get it pop faster to claim the Marble. go for GL/Parth/HE/NE in designated cities. Even if get beat, you will get good gold conversion.

Work on getting Nappy friendly.

Will need to check out save for more details. But the AIs look quite powerful with the amount of land they have.

ABigCivFan said:

I would have gone for literature first.

Chop a monument in your marble city to get it pop faster to claim the Marble. go for GL/Parth/HE/NE in designated cities. Even if get beat, you will get good gold conversion.

Work on getting Nappy friendly.

Will need to check out save for more details. But the AIs look quite powerful with the amount of land they have.

Click to expand...

I was going for Literature but it was completed by a civ on the other continent on the same turn I got Polytheism and was going to start on it (350 BC), hence I went for COL to get some more trading done.

Your researching HR which all the AI's have. Going for CoL and bulbing phil would get you great trading material. Given the techrate overseas, liberalism seems impossible so there's no damage done trading it away when you get it.

Guys, you really need to read through my posts more thoroughly.

I already have COL, check the last part of round 3 for my suggestions of techs and why to research them. Snowlywhite suggested Compass which is one of the alternatives I outlined, any takers? I'm still pondering myself but I'll take your advice into account.

Aha, I missed that, I still don't see a reason to research monarchy. Going after militairy techs like mathematics->construction, or HBR and then backfilling with phil would have my preference at this point. But I only play on emperor, so I might be horribly wrong.

compass and those 2 cities on the small island asap(might be horribly wrong with compass, but at least those 2 cities should pop 12 commerce each after a harbour even at lousy sizes, 16 with currency)

obviously the incense looks tempting too, but calendar usually is poor trade value

anyway, very hard map; I'd lose on it(not that it says much) and that agri 1st might've been costly too

JammerUno: I put a turn of research into Monarchy to trade for it with Nappy but he demanded I give him COL before I could make it happen.
The reason for getting Monarchy would be for HR+diplo bonus but I'm also leaning towards getting something I can trade for it rather than research it directly.

SnowlyWhite: Well since I got the GLH anyhow it wasn't all that costly in the end, it delayed things a bit though.

I think speeding up the GS is a good choice; unless you have something else you need slavery for. Tough break with the other continent... I didn't see it though so I'm guessing they didn't found Taoism yet? This game looks like it might need a bold strategy but it's obviously your call. I, for one, wouldn't trust Nappy; Mathematics could lead you to construction and a cata-backstab. I assume the AI unfortunately all have feudalism by now, though, and unfortunately Nappy seems stronger than Joao and we don't want Joao simply losing, leaving Nappy a powerhouse. Huayna should be pretty much automatically friendly with religion + HR, so if you could snag a couple cities from Nappy, (and if necessary trade him philosophy for a peace treaty) you might make a go of it. But then again, I know this could be too risky and throw away the game, so you might just listen to everyone else and build up for now to put that UU to use later.

the distance from libyan(one of the few cities with decent food for whipping) to paris is, at the current 2 speed... about 1 era

Right...forgot normal speed does that to you! However, Gliese could actually create a conga line of galleys to get troops over around Chartres; it looks he'll have two by Addis Ababa if the barbs don't get them, so ferrying troops wouldn't be too hard. I agree it's a bit late for war so it's a fringe idea at best though; not much time to prepare. I noticed Nappy is the one lagging in tech behind the other AI; hopefully Joao can use that to broker peace if necessary.

I'd have thought (tho I'm still a lowly emperor level player) that your best chance to catch up on tech is through philosophy. You'd obviously need maths to clear the bulb path. You said that switching to caste gets the GS 10 turns earlier, you'd lose four hammers per turn in exchange for 3 beakers so over ten turns that would equate to one sword. Maybe finish maths and monarchy while waiting for philo bulb and hope that you could fiddle trades to pick up feudalism along with compass and calendar. It depends on how likely you are to need to whip up an army in case of a sudden DoW over the next few turns.

Edit: If you complete monarchy (2 turns at 100% ?) before swopping civics then would you save a turn of anarchy by a double switch (HR and caste)?

Round 4, 50 BC - 760 AD (35 turns):

I decided to go for a tech that I could trade around and I chose Drama rather than Compass. The reason I settled on Drama is that I deemed it more likely that I would keep a monopoly on it as the AI in my experience values it less than compass on a multi-continent map.

25 BC: I'm able to do a civic swap again and I switch to caste to put two more scientists to work in Lalibela causing the city to lose 1 food per turn but cutting the ETA of my 2nd GS with 10 turns. I plan on using him to bulb philosophy for trading.

50 AD: Chichen Itza BIDL (HC).

75 AD: Taoism is founded, once again on the other continent, giving them 5 to 1 in religions vs our continent. Not good if we want religious strife over here but it increases the likelihood that I can trade around philosophy to good effect after bulbing it.
Joao and Nappy make peace, not good as the war didn't really go anywhere and so presumably just wasted a ton of resources for both. Also I have to be wary of Nappy.
I capture and burn Avar on the western island, losing a sword but gaining some gold and a worker.



100: Drama -> Civil Service. I decide to go for CS next as I want to get bureacracy for my capital and don't want to rely on trading for it with philosophy.
I'm the only one with Drama and I trade it around to good effect.







175: I trade horse to HC for clam, banana and 12 gpt. I switch to HR.

225: Islam FIDL. On the other continent once again.
I found my 7th city.



250: Hagia Sophia BIDL.

275: GS #2 is born and I use him to bulb Philosophy.

300: Sistine Chapel BIDL (Joao). I can't find the list here on civfanatics so I go to the XML to check the number of techs that my neighbours are willing to trade before WFYABTA.
Joao: 15, Nappy: 10, HC: 5.
This is seemingly at odds with the civ4bts reference chart which states tech trade willingness for the three leaders as;
HC: Willing, Nap: Moderate, Joao: Averse.

I'm not saying it's wrong just that you might get the wrong idea if you check the reference guide trying to determine who to trade with first. I would prefer a variable in the guide listing the number of techs that the various leaders are willing to trade. From what I remember there are two large blocks of 5 and 10s, a few 15s and Mansa at 20.

Here's a look at the tech screen at the beginning of the turn.



Since the XML tells me that HC will hit WFYABTA first, I trade with him first. It turns out he's researching philo on his own so I don't get full value.



This is enough to put HC into WFYABTA mode.
Next I trade with Nappy and then Joao.





I could've gotten a few more beakers from Joao but I opted to save some time on going for Liberalism although it seemed it would be out of reach due to the high tech pace on the other continent. In any case I wanted Literature for the NE so I put extra weight on that.



I switch research to Paper as it's on the way to Liberalism and even if I'm unlikely to get it, it's also a tech noone on my continent has yet.

325: Switch to Bur+Pacifism.

425: Angkor Wat BIDL.
Notre Dame BIDL (HC).
Trade incense for dye to Joao.

450: Liberalism FIDL. Oh well at least it was before I got a chance to waste bulbs on Education.
I found my 8th city, checking the trade advisor as I do so. With the GLH and currency I actually gain +6 gold per turn with rounding at 0% research.



475: Paper - Feudalism. I plan on trading Paper around and put a turn of research into Feudalism.

500: Trade.





The liberalism race is gone and I've got to decide on a new tech path but I decide to postpone more longterm decisions about this for now and start on Education as it's necessary to ramp up the science to rennaisance levels which is where I'll want to go asap regardless of what my next move is. The other possible choice would have been Optics but I feel the other continent is advanced enough that I'll probably meet them before I get there.

540: UoS BIDL (Joao). I found my 9th and - for the time being - last city.



560: Meet Wang Kon.

620: Trade world maps with Wang Kon.



Well isn't that a surprise, peaceful techers the whole lot. Lizzy is the one that won the Liberalism race and seems to be the tech leader despite only having a 6-city empire. A closeup reveals the reason for this.



That's what they call a decent start I guess. I love how the corn and fish to the SW have been totally ignored btw.

640: Spiral Minaret BIDL (HC). That's a fearsome religious economy he's got going with our big buddhist continent.
HC becomes friendly but aquires Education at the same time.

740: Versailles BIDL (HC).

760: Finish Education and end the round. Unfortunately everyone else I've met has it as well except Nappy.



That's a 14 tech lead HC has on me if I'm not mistaken.

I could make this trade:



Which I'm inclined to do, however I need to consider my next move first.
I want to get Oxfords up in the capital asap and I've stagnated Lalibela with the NE in place working scientists so I will generate alot of GSs in the next round that I'm thinking of settling in the capital, what do you think?
I suppose I could also use them to bulb stuff like Astronomy (nice if I can get foreign intercontinental trades in all cities with the GLH in place) and Chemstry (on my way to Steel).
Do I need to invade Nappy at some point? Probably yes I'd say if I want to try for space as both WK and HC have around 12 cities to my 9 which is hard to compensate for on deity especially given the mediocre nature of my land.
If I'm going to invade Nappy then I naturally want him as backwards as possible but OTOH he's my only possible trading partner right now as I'm so backwards myself.
What should my techpath be and what units should I aim for to invade Nappy? I might be able to capture a couple of cities with Cannons but after that it might turn into a slugfest unless I can get assistance. I'm also worried a bit about the good relations on my continent.
I might also be able to launch an intercontinental assault on someone, like Liz mm yummy capital there.

Perhaps I can play for diplomatic victory? I would need to get the UN then. Liz favourite civic is free religion and SB is not a very religious person and the buddhist block likes me well enough atm.

Decisions decisions..

I think you'll need to conquer nappy for a space victory, intercontinental war puts more strain on your empire, and it's harder. Going after astro will get you to steel faster, which I think is the earliest opportunity for a succesful war at this point. Depending on relations you might get Joao/HC to declare as well, but with cannon/rifles/grenadiers you should be ok. Postponing economics to keep +2 traderoutes and cranking up the size of coastal cities and building the TR enhancers might keep your economy/research rate afloat even in a protracted war. If the other continent goes into mercantilism though, that would present problems.
A switch to nationhood when possible might be ok, drafting with the GT and +2 happy and the +2 pop in coastal cities resulting in higher TR profits might outweight bureaucracy if you're gearing up for war.