Doubt it since he was gay.
The Second Expansion Set - Fact or Fantasy?
- Thread starter Quijote
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Doubt it since he was gay.
A couple of nice ideas that were in Civ: Call to Power were:
1) The way that unhappy cities in your civ could break away an become a new civilization. (Okay, it wasn't good when it happened to you but it made it more life-like. It kinda emulated the way that the US was formed)
2) The way you could colonise the coastal & ocean squares with tunnels and floating/underwater cities. It would, of course, mean that the space race wouldn't be an option in games like these and they'd have to go on to 2250AD or something but I think it's a good way to keep playing if you want to see your civ go on into the future.
I also think that a good idea would be to improve the espionage & political tricks that you can play.
But I haven't even played Warlords yet so I've got that to look forward to first, once I've mastered Vanilla!
1) The way that unhappy cities in your civ could break away an become a new civilization. (Okay, it wasn't good when it happened to you but it made it more life-like. It kinda emulated the way that the US was formed)
2) The way you could colonise the coastal & ocean squares with tunnels and floating/underwater cities. It would, of course, mean that the space race wouldn't be an option in games like these and they'd have to go on to 2250AD or something but I think it's a good way to keep playing if you want to see your civ go on into the future.
I also think that a good idea would be to improve the espionage & political tricks that you can play.
But I haven't even played Warlords yet so I've got that to look forward to first, once I've mastered Vanilla!
It's been posted before, and again, and again.
Please keep Civ4 a historic game and not a fantasy game. Just because some other, similar, game decided to go to the future era does not mean Civ4 has to. Let's meet in the middle ground and improve the Modern Age, shall we? More technologies and neat gadgets?
I would like to see spies improved as well, going off the espionage route. There have been a few of good ideas for new spy missions on this forum already...I hope they implement some.
Please keep Civ4 a historic game and not a fantasy game. Just because some other, similar, game decided to go to the future era does not mean Civ4 has to. Let's meet in the middle ground and improve the Modern Age, shall we? More technologies and neat gadgets?
I would like to see spies improved as well, going off the espionage route. There have been a few of good ideas for new spy missions on this forum already...I hope they implement some.
Settle petal. Why is 2250 AD fantasy and 2050 isn't? Maybe firaxis should lock the game according to your computer's system clock, so that as soon as you hit the present year the game stops?
Of course the game is a fantasy game, almost every game is. The American's can meet the Egyptians for Christ sake!
But it's a historically based fantasy game. If you have traveled through time and have a history book from centuries in the future, then by all means share it with us.
I personally would rather see the time limit for the game set to around 2010 (and roll those other turns into earlier dates), or some other year that is closer to what we can reasonably predict will happen--our foresight is acceptable for a few years, maybe even 10-20. But beyond a century I think is ridiculous.
Civ is a fantasy game, just face it. Romans never built the Great Wall and it's hard to think about China with a Jewish state religion. Civ is directed by general principles, and there is absolutely no reason they can't go into the future with them.
Turns need to go into Months and days as time advances as well. Planes and ships need to move massively faster. Last time I checked Sea/Air transport historically are ALWAYS faster than footslogging, but this is always the opposite in-game. A navy should be a good thing to have, not an annoyance to manage as it slowly chugg's its way around the earth to be usefull.
The whole 2050 thing really dissapoints me, I mean, what does Cid Mier know that I don't know? Are we living in the end times? Is the Rapture of Christ at hand? Ahh!!
Turns need to go into Months and days as time advances as well. Planes and ships need to move massively faster. Last time I checked Sea/Air transport historically are ALWAYS faster than footslogging, but this is always the opposite in-game. A navy should be a good thing to have, not an annoyance to manage as it slowly chugg's its way around the earth to be usefull.
The whole 2050 thing really dissapoints me, I mean, what does Cid Mier know that I don't know? Are we living in the end times? Is the Rapture of Christ at hand? Ahh!!
So just because of alternative historic happenings, and the use of fantasy maps, or the practical using of turns, you mean it's logical to make CIV a pure fantasy game with unicorns and green men from Mars?
I don't buy your arguments, sorry.....
Why yes, you are an apt pupil :O
No I didn't quite make it like that, but if you are going to take it to a certain degree, why not take it all the way.
Truly the thing I think that is Sci-Fi ish, that is arbirary and strange, is to have the game end in 2050 like thats when the Raputre comes or something.
No I didn't quite make it like that, but if you are going to take it to a certain degree, why not take it all the way.
Truly the thing I think that is Sci-Fi ish, that is arbirary and strange, is to have the game end in 2050 like thats when the Raputre comes or something.
I think it's your use of the word 'fantasy' that confuses you. No-one has mentioned unicorns or green men from Mars, I merely asked why should we extrapolate until 2050 AD and not 2250 AD?
And, by your terms, if building a 'Generation' ship and launching it toward Alpha Centauri isn't 'fantasy' then I dont know what is.
But each to their own I guess. What they should do is expand a few more centuries and include an option that you could check that says "End at 2010".
Everyone's happy.
Well, my point is to keep the fantasy elements within the traditions of Civilization. I dont mind scenarios (even Firaxis made) going other ways, but plz dont flick to much with the original official game.
And using fantasy elements in Civ to escuse all kinds of wild ideas making CIV something totally different then its suposed to be, is not the best retoric I've seen.....
And using fantasy elements in Civ to escuse all kinds of wild ideas making CIV something totally different then its suposed to be, is not the best retoric I've seen.....
Ben E Gas
King
Next X-pansion:
Civ4: Expanded Civics
or
Civ4: Holy Wars
Civ4: Expanded Civics
or
Civ4: Holy Wars
Honestly, I think you missed the words I italicized in my post. I'm not disputing it's a game with its quirks and oddities, because the game essentially allows you to either a) re-write real world history, or b) write a new history on a random planet that develops similar to Earth. Nowhere in there is anything about aliens or underwater cities...unless you count natural disasters and floods. Civ4 is a game about messing around with the past, not the future.
Well when he mentioned some intresting ideas from Call to power you did dispute all of them on it a case of being fantasy related. Heres the thing, you see the game as a world history replay, others want more freedom to chart there own path in the context of what can occure. (look to the way of the future
)For example looking from one angle, had the historical Civ you are curtailing made the power moves you as leader might acheive they could have powered future innovations to the level of what call Fantasy.(like airplanes, trains, once where)
The members ideas are not fantasy as you referred, but a change from a narrow scope to a broader range of reality.
Personally, I wish they could limit those future improvments for Civs that have done exceptionally well. For example in the Balancer Reloaded makes Mechs are the only way to fly in the Future age. However its designed to make sure you have invested enough in your production lines and powered your ecomony well into reason to be able to afford an Army of Machines that conduct hostilites for you. Civ3 has been there and done that long ago my friends.
Historically based, yes, but history shall march on
Also there are a lot of technologies/ideas that are current that aren't really covered by the tech tree now. For example cloneing/advanced genetic engeneering, terrorisim, bioweapons, modern agriculture (being able to plant resources like corn and rice rather than being dependent on the map), and invisiblity (which is actually way closer than anyone previously imagined).I don't mean necissarily taking civ enormously far into the future, but 100 years couldn't hurt. I think it's fairly safe to say what technologies look likey (for example Fusion is already there - its an obvious next step). I also think that there need to be social techs that go into the future, not just scientific ones. About the seas and space - I don't think we are anywhere near either of those, except merely to gather resources - so I don't think space-sea settlers are an option unless it's the extreme future. BTW - Can you imagine the cost of upkeep for space cities (!!).
The whole last 1/3rd of the game is kinda screwed up in my view with units moving way too slowly and turns going way too fast (I mean does it take from 1970 to 1975 to get units across a large continent). Some technolgies like Flight are way less of a bomb than they should be. The ability to get stuff anywhere any time should be a great boon, but a lot of the time it's just a distraction to getting further up the tree.
I think Civ has moved well to the right direction with the civics system, and I would like to see more of those in the future.
I've kinda rambled but I think I got around to my major points. It's not like we are ending at some major juncture, say industralization or the World War II era, it just sort of peters out and that just leaves me (and many) feeling unsatisfied. I mean, obviously we are still going . . . so keep the game going.
P.S. Oh yeah, I think Postmodern should be an Era, and I don't think universal sufferage should be so easy to get. but thats just my 2 cents.
You just hit the hammer on the head
About future ideas, some future resource like precious metals and better Gov like virtual democracy should be added. Some wonders from Balancers 5th era like the Weather Controling Machine, seem as far fetched as the space esculater(ladder) that was put in CIv4
Mechs are a nice touch if they were phased in slowly from post modern super weapons to future era super mech! Again, I use the BAlancer Reloaded as shiny example. That baby flossed 800 units with 84 being mechs (check my previous link) around 40 more are at that transition stage from weaopns of today --to super weapons of tommow--then on to big shiny death robots!! -The best thing they could do is make it so only the super powers are worthy to build these guys.
Like China and USA, in my games of Balancer RL, only two or three Civs are strong enough at the end of modern to have accuired Future technolgy and built numbers to go on and win. But even then, There has to be a real buffer zone to to exclude a loser CIv from proucing the units even if they find the know-how
Toys only us big boyz economy can handle(City pop lev20 n up). SAy some Civ trades or teams up for many techs to aquire future weopons, they still won't be able to push a Mech off the line in meaningful numbers, not if their city production isn't up to par.
The upkeep(cost per unit)? oh gee! you better have the proper number of citys stacked with the latest gold inducing improvments if you want to pay your tech support(geek squad) or cost per unit fee
I should say this 'lots of Citys' requirement is made right by Balancer Reloaded. It has a extra Forbidden Palce and another still, if you can be the first to build it (great wonder) .Corrupton killing colony starter kits are the sh#T (just add a leader to the build que watch corruption melt away, an enjoy! you new colony on the other side of the world!! goodjob: )
People should look into the Balancer Reloaded when designing next expansion. Its nickname is Civ 3.5 'Ironed Edition'
Historically based, yes, but history shall march on
I don't mean necissarily taking civ enormously far into the future, but 100 years couldn't hurt. I think it's fairly safe to say what technologies look likey (for example Fusion is already there - its an obvious next step). I also think that there need to be social techs that go into the future, not just scientific ones. About the seas and space - I don't think we are anywhere near either of those, except merely to gather resources - so I don't think space-sea settlers are an option unless it's the extreme future. BTW - Can you imagine the cost of upkeep for space cities (!!).
The whole last 1/3rd of the game is kinda screwed up in my view with units moving way too slowly and turns going way too fast (I mean does it take from 1970 to 1975 to get units across a large continent). Some technolgies like Flight are way less of a bomb than they should be. The ability to get stuff anywhere any time should be a great boon, but a lot of the time it's just a distraction to getting further up the tree.
I think Civ has moved well to the right direction with the civics system, and I would like to see more of those in the future.
I've kinda rambled but I think I got around to my major points. It's not like we are ending at some major juncture, say industralization or the World War II era, it just sort of peters out and that just leaves me (and many) feeling unsatisfied. I mean, obviously we are still going . . . so keep the game going.
P.S. Oh yeah, I think Postmodern should be an Era, and I don't think universal sufferage should be so easy to get. but thats just my 2 cents.
Now that you have said that, I think we can agree on enhancing the Modern Age (especially) as a goal! Space cities are kind of ridiculous, I think, as are underwater colonies as somebody mentioned earlier--sure, we have some underwater bases, subs, etc., but not hundreds of thousands of people beneath the waves.
I would like to see an automobiles technology that increases the movement along roads (again), and a similar tech for rails. Also, modern armor and mech infantry should move at least 3 squares, if not 4. Upping the movement of some Industrial Age units would be nice as well.
Second what you have said about Civics--that was the feature from SMAC I wanted to see in Civ3...and it wasn't there. I'm glad it got into Civ4.
And I never said the game should flat end at the Industrial or Modern era...but I disagree with things like walking battle-mechs and massive laser-shooting armies and other "scifi" style technologies. Keep it real--railguns, fusion, trimarans, maybe more kinds of aircraft (like dive bombers that can be stationed on warships, or transport helicopters that can drop off infantry), cruise missiles, tactical nukes that can be loaded onto nuclear submarines, etc. There are plenty of currently-existing technologies that can be fit into the Modern Age; we don't need to add some ill-contrived future era to the game as well when we are ignoring so much that can be implemented and still keep a historic/contemporary flavor.
snipperrabbit!!
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