SGOTM 03 - Geezers

Sam_Yeager · Jan 31, 2007

Thrallia said:
I agree....I think we'd need to do that in tandem with switching over to Representation to gain a civics bonus from him.

Mmmmm... From what I can gather the AI decide who to attack first and then, mostly, build the forces afterwards for the attack. Once they've decided they don't tend to change their 'minds'. I believe the most significant factor for them to suspend their action is the power rating of the target civ. In our case of course Julius has had plenty of time to build the attack force. Or at least that's what I think

I can't say that I'm that convinced that changing civics will outweigh their decision to attack. If we really want to try it I strongly recommend having a powerful land and naval force ready to sink/repulse him near his likely targets before we try it.

Htadus · Feb 1, 2007

Played 4 turns and made a intermediate stop to discuss the vote, Vickeys "Rockets" and Science.

Here is what happend so far

1750 AD (Turn 390): We already had OB with Washington but do not want to DoW against anyone. So established OB with Cyrus. Allowed hamburg to grow. Changed Hamburg Harbor, Tianjin Theater to a Frig. mm Xian to complete thereter in 2 turns. Changed macau theater to granadier. mm Beijing for more hammers and slow growth for the moment. We do not need another grumpy. Did the same for Athens for the same reason. Rush: Granadiers in Hittite, Huamanga(add Grainary), Nanjing, Guangzhou and New Novgerode, Arty in Beijing and LCity, Rifle in Athens(add market), and Cossack in Hangzhou. Press save. (do not trust my Pewter)
IBT: Kahn rang, want peace, said no.

1752 AD (Turn 391): Rush: Arty in CSky and Moscow and Granagier in Berlin.
IBT: Edo Elephant commits suicide.

1754 AD (Turn 392): Recon Team of 3 Cossacks check Tiawanuka. Has 3 rifles. We can wait. Edo attack: Start with arty, all units win. One nearly dead cat remain. Woops gave a wrong promotion to a Granadier. Sorry.

4 ship chain almost bring 2 units to Japan from old Chinese soil. (press save)
IBT: Toku move a lone Granadier to Ice Town. Musa offer hit single for Ivory. What a guy. Why yes. Where is the thank you button.

1756 AD (Turn 393): Cossack Kill the Ice town Granadier. Sec Gen Vote come up. Vote for Self. Greedy? Yup. Increased culture to 50%. New Novgerode had 8 grumps eating up -14 fpt. Edo is ours and a slow units are getting a boat ride to the next city with 4 Frig escort. Toku lost a hell of a lot navel units. Crap. Vickey got Rockets on top of Rail Road :eek:

. We need these war over soon. I can guess what she is planning.
IBT: Huayna wanted Peace. Not yet.

1758 AD (Turn 394): We retain the UN post. Repeat Tiawanuka Recon, same 3 rifles. Units are gathering for them. Stop here to discuss the Vote.

The image did not come out right. But JC voted for Monty. I do not like that. Any ways. I think it is time that we start science again. I will rush units again to get this wars over as fast as possible. We are upto 50% culture. Not a good picture. Oh Should we build the Eifle Tower?

Here is the save if anyone want to look. I will play in 20 hours. Please comment.

Thrallia · Feb 1, 2007

If only we could keep all the votes we got for SecGen, we'd almost have the game won...I guess we just gotta keep on taking pop from Toku, trying to woo the people who just voted for us, and perhaps write off Julius.

Most of that war weariness currently is probably from Huayna, since he's who we've fought most, so once he's gone/peaced, we should be able to lower the culture slider for at least a little while.

Incidently, since we can't PA Monty, why not go ahead and try to PA Mansa while we've got a mutual war on our hands? It certainly wouldn't hurt, and he's doing a great job of researching techs, he could pretty much keep us up to date on tech by himself while we keep warring.

Sam_Yeager · Feb 1, 2007

@Htadus - JC voted for Monty during my turn so his betrayal is nothing new. As an aside it's amusing to see JC hot footing it over to Toku's lands to try and establish new cities. Vicki's got a long way to go before wandering into space.

A few points:

We need to finish Huayna off sooner rather than later. Either that or make peace after taking Tiwanaku as we may not have enough forces to take his last cities. That way we lose WW and can reduce the culture rate.
We should raise the culture rate to 60% as we've got cities starving. No point capturing cities for pop if we're losing pop in our existing ones.
I don't think there's too much point researching until we've got Huayna out the way one way or another.
Olly should be building a granary rather than a library as it's pop we need rather science.

Sam_Yeager · Feb 1, 2007

Thrallia said:
Incidently, since we can't PA Monty, why not go ahead and try to PA Mansa while we've got a mutual war on our hands?

We haven't shared a mutual war with Mansa for long enough yet.

Our ally Hatty let herself be bought off by Huayna so that's a non starter as well.

Htadus · Feb 2, 2007

Summary: Captured 2 more japanese cities, Tokyo is ready to fall, Tiawanuka and Units are gathering for Machu Picchu. I think I made a mistake by going amphibious assult route in Tokyo. :cry:

It was very successful in Kyoto. Unfortunate. CBombed Tiawanuka but did not see anything significant but think thing will change IBT. JC asked us to change to Representation and I did. Now I wish I disagreed.

We can no longer cash rush units. And No PA Options. Japanese front need to be healed.

1758 AD (Turn 394 cont): Change Cori build to Grainary. Moving units west along south coast of Japan.
IBT: ZZZ

1760 AD (turn 395): Troop movements. Increase culture to 60%.
IBT: JC come knocking asking for us to switch to Representation. Remembering that we too want to do that, We agree and gift him an extra cow we have.

1762 AD (Turn 396): We take Osaka. Can't rush units anymore. I got con'ed. May be because the anarchy. Troop Movement. About to knock on Tiawanuka.
IBT: Our Granadier near Kyoto die to Japanese and a Samurai get killed by Our Arty. Gandhi ask for Mass Media and we give.

1764 AD (Turn 397): Bombard Kyoto Troop movement. Shoot. I accidently emptied the last unit from Cori. Hope this wont bite me. UN Vote.
IBT: Incan Rifle attack our Arty near Machu and die.

1766 AD (Turn 398): No UN win today. Off to war we go. Two Arti attack kyoto followed by amphibious assult. Ground bound 2 Cossacks take the City. Only arty in front of Tiawanuka bombard the city and our units take it with minimal loss. Machu team was a loss. 4 valiant Granadiers gave their lives for the glory of Fatherland. Avenge me and for Russia was heard accross the battle field. Frigs bombard next Japanese city; Tokyo.
IBT: Zzz

1768 AD (Turn 399): Out of Anarchy. Bombard and assult Tokyo. Lost a few units no gain. Getting units to Machu.
IBT: Zzzz

1770 AD (Turn 400): Culture Bomb in Tiawanuku.....Did any thing happen? :confused:

I think we will gain some tiles next turn. Bombard and assult Tokyo. Lost a few units no gain but it is down to 4 extreamly wounded units and we have units to take the city next. Getting units to Machu.

Save
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3/Geezers_SG003_AD1770_01.Civ4SavedGame

Htadus · Feb 2, 2007

A caraval has been reconing Khans islands. Here are some snaps.

There was a Roman Settler with 2 rifle escort in Japanese soil. They disappeared into fog. Cori has been feeling the culture pressure and revolting on and off. We should be able to capture his main cities soon. I wish I did not revolt. :mad:

Htadus · Feb 2, 2007

Session Turn Log from 1750 AD to 1770 AD: Reduced fat version.

Spoiler :

It was a mistake to attack Machu Picchu with just 5 units. It could have been better if I used the Arty to attack instead of bombarding. That would have enabled the other 4 units to take the city. It would have been even better if I had waited another two turns. Oh well live and learn. But .... :wallbash:

I have been practicing mongering and it payoff most of the time to take a chance.

Thrallia · Feb 2, 2007

alright, I'm gonna play my turnset on Monday, so we've got a couple days to discuss where to go from here.

Do we take out Huayna completely or peace him?
Do we stay in Representation now that we've switched?
Where do we go from here?

of course, if we don't want to wait until monday, I can take a swap with mark

Sam_Yeager · Feb 2, 2007

Let's see now. It's 1770, culture is at 70%, we're losing money and we've still got cities starving.

I think we need to bring the wars against Huayna and Toku to an end soonest.

For the Huayna war we should take Macchu and also take Alexandria (if we've got enough troops left) and then make peace. Huayna will still have three cities left after that and they're scattered over the world.

As far as Toku goes I agree with taking Tokyo and then we should make peace. With the amount of cities he's got it would take ages to finish him off.

That should make a big dent in our WW. Probably need to keep the war up against Khan if he's still at war with Mansa though.

Diplo wise we need to concentrate on Hatty (83 votes) and Cyrus (81 votes). As I see it we're about 52 votes short if we can get their votes.

Giving Alexandria back to Hatty would'nt hurt. Hopefully the addition of some well chosen techs will turn the tide. I'll have to think what we can do about Cyrus. Techs? Money?

EDIT:
Cross post with Thrallia.

Thrallia said:
Do we take out Huayna completely or peace him?

I think I've already answered this in my post.

EDIT 2:

I think we can forget about getting JC's vote. We're running his civic and we only get +1 from it.

Thrallia · Feb 2, 2007

civic happiness increases over time...hopefully in the next 10-15 turns, it'll increase from +1 to +3 or +4...also, that civic is also the one favored by Cyrus and Vicky...so its not a total loss if it gets us Cyrus instead...

Sam_Yeager · Feb 2, 2007

Thrallia said:
Do we take out Huayna completely or peace him?

Already given my view above.

Thrallia said:
Do we stay in Representation now that we've switched?

Thrallia said:
civic happiness increases over time...hopefully in the next 10-15 turns, it'll increase from +1 to +3 or +4...also, that civic is also the one favored by Cyrus and Vicky...so its not a total loss if it gets us Cyrus instead...

Answering your own question?

Thrallia said:
Where do we go from here?

I've partially answered this question above; at least in my opinion. Not sure where everyone else is though. :confused:

Htadus · Feb 3, 2007

I agree with taking the last two Incan cities on that continent and getting a Peace treaty. Heck for that matter we might be able to demand Alexandria as a prize.

If we do want to get more ww reduce we can take Tokyo and sign for peace. Actually I would prefer to take the last Japanese city on that continent to give tokyo a chance to grow.

By the way we can always re DOW on him to take the remaining cities after 10-20 turns. With good planing we should be able to take ALL his cities within few turns with minimal ww. We just need to have all our powerful units on hand for a fast landing (not amphibious) and assult.

As for the deplomatic front, I think we should wait and see what the civic change does to JC's and Cyrus' attitude toward us.

I still believe fast focused wars will get us to the UN seat faster than any other way. We just need to pick the right civ. Like Kahn.

markh · Feb 3, 2007

Let me try again. What about gifting all former Incan cities to Hatty to make her no. 2 ?

Htadus · Feb 4, 2007

markh said:
Let me try again. What about gifting all former Incan cities to Hatty to make her no. 2 ?

Well lets see. For her to get #2 spot we will have to give her cities to make up atleast 33 votes. If Monti vote for us we gain 112 votes. for a total gain of 79 votes. In my book that is a great idea. the only question is can we depend on him to vote for us? I am absolutely inexperienced in this matter to say any thing. Also would Musa still vote for us?

But conceptually it is an excellent idea.

Sam_Yeager · Feb 4, 2007

markh said:
Let me try again. What about gifting all former Incan cities to Hatty to make her no. 2 ?

Assuming that Hatty will accept these cities, there are a couple of issues we need to consider:

Can we depend on Monty to vote for us? Since Monty is annoyed at Hatty there's a reasonable chance, although not certainty, that he will.
Even with Monty's votes ( 115? ) we still need another hundred or so votes so we need a way to get Cyrus to vote for us as well. Maybe gifting Fred's former lands? A possible problem is that Cyrus is pleased with Hatty, although at +3 rather than the +7 for us. However that might mean that Cyrus abstains which is no use to us.
Perhaps we may better gifting cities to both Hatty & Cyrus to get them friendly so they'll vote for us and keep Monty as our opponent. That way we only have 50 or so votes to make up.

DynamicSpirit · Feb 4, 2007

Sam_Yeager said:
[*]Perhaps we may better gifting cities to both Hatty & Cyrus to get them friendly so they'll vote for us and keep Monty as our opponent. That way we only have 50 or so votes to make up.

Does gifting cities change an AI's attitude towards you? On 'moral' grounds it arguably ought to, but I've not noticed that it actually does.

Sam_Yeager · Feb 5, 2007

DynamicSpirit said:
Does gifting cities change an AI's attitude towards you? On 'moral' grounds it arguably ought to, but I've not noticed that it actually does.

I have to say that I don't know this from personal experience. Certainly I would hope that gifting Alexandria back to Hatty would help.

Perhaps we'll have to have a play in a world builder test game. If it doesn't work then we need to come up with other ways of addressing the possible problems I raised in my post.

Thrallia · Feb 5, 2007

well, some great discussions while I've been gone...unfortunately rl has struck again in the form of a history and a programming project at once, so I'll definitely need a swap...I should be able to play after Simon does his turnset.

markh · Feb 6, 2007

I had to go back several pages to find a roster :

I have no clue whether this is correct, though.

Thrallia - swap
Simon - UP
Mark - on deck
Sam
Dagnabit-
Htadus- just played

SGOTM 03 - Geezers

Another Original Geezer

A and L's dad

Prodigal Staffer

Another Original Geezer

Another Original Geezer

A and L's dad

A and L's dad

A and L's dad

Prodigal Staffer

Another Original Geezer

Prodigal Staffer

Another Original Geezer

A and L's dad

Deity

A and L's dad

Another Original Geezer

Fear him of the pink tie

Another Original Geezer

Prodigal Staffer

Deity

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