Mump2 - AWDG Standard Pangaea

Another excellent set. Seeing and then going for the wines first has provided us with some very good options I think.

My comments, once more without Civ at hand (suggestions for cubsfan's early turns in bold):

I'm happy to see the "exploration" of our west flank. The coast goes straight south for a bit there, so we can definitely put a town there. I'd wait just a bit to meet light-blue, but not too long either. In my experience, when a civ is close by, you want to meet them soonish, because slowing them down is better than letting them develop and then throw a truckload of more advanced troops at you all at once, from very near by. Of course, delay contact until we are a bit more settled. Therefore the GS west of Richborough should go east into town immediately.

Lugdunum settler can go for the last spot in my earlier "dotmap", 3 tiles south of Augustodurum. Richborough's worker should start roading towards that site.

Still no attacks on Verulamium. I'd move GSs to counter the Ottos mostly, and prepare for a possible encounter with light blue. Cats, spears and a small GS contingent should suffice to hold the east. Verulamium settler can then go SE of Tonawanda, after the army razes said Iroquois town. I still haven't been able to check if that hill is on the river; I hope so, but probably not. Still, Tonawanda wastes a BG and is out of place for us, so raze anyway.

Entremont should build another settler soonish to go for the wines. Founding directly north of them will get us CxxC with both Camulodunum and New Tonawanda.

Slaves are very important, be sure to protect them. From Rat's report, they should be safe for this turn, so the army can recover some hitpoints first. The first turn, it can move nicely towards Tonawanda .

After the first few new towns, I'd follow up toward the east, staying north of the desert. If we can clear the Iroquois fast, we will only have to defend the south, with the desert providing no cover to incoming enemy units. Defending the wines will not become important for a while, we have two luxes already, which is fine for now.

For our Forbidden Palace, I'd go with the spot 3 east of Tonawanda, which is on a river, has some forests, hills and mountains and probably good lands in general. 3 south from that will then be another good spot with 2 BG at least. I'd prioritize the FP a bit provided we can contain the Iroquois quickly. I feel it will be the next important step for us.

Edit: for research, let's keep that going at max until we are certain about the GL. Not sure we should go for horses though, I'd rather go for Monarchy.

Roster
Mumpulus - On deck
Own
nerovats
Mizar
ThERat - Just played
cubsfan6506 - Up

Mumpulus said:

@Mizar: How did the Iroquois unit that died the last IT get to Lugdunum? You sure it wasn't dropped off by that ship already?

Click to expand...

I should have been more clearly in my report that the Iro galley just showed up from the east and wasn't likely to be empty.
When I read your post, Therat had already played. I realize that communication in the team is one of the most important (and interesting) factor of a SG.
If you wonder why a few Iros made it that far north: We were very light on defense and without offensive military and I had to play every tactical card we have like luring the AI to make their attacks managable.

ThERat said:

move army east and pop a hut purposely, it gives barbs which will keep the enemy busy

IT as expected, the fools go after the barbs

Click to expand...

I like these details about tactical play
Overall an impressive turnset that keeps us in the game.

Cubsfan, you know you're up?

It appears as though he's AWOL, I think you should swap with him (its been more than 24 hours since last save was played).

Mumpulus, get this game going and play...

Let's just go on and slot Cubsfan in when he is back online.

Ok, got it, but can only play tonight.

Edit: started playing, 3 turns in so far. Lost a few units to the RNG, but Tonawanda is gone, and we're set to do a lot of expanding in the coming turns. But now my SO has other plans for me for the rest of the night, so I'll have to do the rest tomorrow morning, so you'll have to wait another 12 hours .

Roster
Mumpulus - Playing in about 12 hours
Own - On deck as backup in case cubsfan doesn't show up
nerovats
Mizar
ThERat - Just played
cubsfan6506 - On deck (swapped)

Ill play turns tonight but mump can go first.

Well, I'm happy I finally get to play some turns that are not the very first. Must be that we've been doing well...

I saw no reaction to my proposal to go towards Monarchy, so that is the way I'll go after Lit finishes.

I checked F10, and the blue borders must be the Hittites.

0) 750BC
There is a strait between us and the nearest Hittite borders, so chances of contact are slim. I leave the GS in the west for now. Everything else is fine.

IT
A couple Iro archers move in our direction, two Otto units appear near Alesia.

1) 730BC
Start roading the furs (6 turns). Move slave stack west. Army cover is not required, so move the army next to Tonawanda. Move elite spear and cat out of Veru and the vet GS that was north of Camu on the hills east of Tonawanda. The two Iro archers will hopefully fail to see their defensive importance and continue straight west now that the hills are no longer available to them.



Our other forces stay put.

MM Alesia and Entremont for growth next turn. Lugdunum will also grow, but there's no way to pick up a shield on growth at this point. So I decide to do something that may be controversial: I move the warrior out of Gergovia towards Lugdunum to disband it next turn and get the settler a turn earlier with no waste. Research to 70%, Lit still in 3. Luckily, our despotic GA gives us lots of opportunities to work unimproved tiles without loosing anything.

IT
The Iro archers actually move towards the slaves. One more Otto horse appears, the other horse again waits for his buddy.

Entremont: GS > Settler
Camu: GS > GS

Ottos finish ToA and start SoZ in Istanbul. Their culture was off the charts already. They've still got two cities on wonders.

2) 710BC
Bombardment on Tonawanda fails. 10/13 GS army attacks 3/3 spear and goes down to 2/13 before winning. Nice... 4/4 GS attacks second 3/3 spear, promotes to 2/5, and levels Tonawanda gaining 0g and 1 slave. GS and slave move towards Veru. Move the other 4 slaves without cover to keep the army out of harm's way; they should be fine.

New 4/4 GS out of Camu kills 3/3 Otto archer clean. New GS out of Entremont serves as MP for one turn in Lugdunum. I want the Otto's to stack their forces, so I move a spear out of Rich to Alesia to try and shift their focus. Probably won't work though... Then I realize we don't want focus on Richborough because of the prebuild, so move in the extra GS. [3-0]

Worker starts improving towards Veru.

MM: Entremont needs to work lots of commerce tiles to keep lux at 10% and is generally badly configured now, so switch to worker in 1. Alesia has to work two floodplains for a turn. Go ahead with the warrior disband in Lugdunum.

IT
3/3 Otto horse kills 4/4 fortified spear in Alesia and goes to 3/4 . A spear appears near Richborough. Iro archers double back mostly. [3-1]

Entremont: Worker > Cat
Lugdunum: Settler > GS
Verulamium: Settler > Cat

Hittites finish GW in Hattusas and MoM in Tarsus

3) 690BC
4/4 GS kills the 3/4 Horse. Move two GS out of Richborough to block our tiles. [4-1]

Two workers start irrigation for Alesia, new worker starts mine for Gergovia.

MM: Camu has grown and can now do 7spt, so I switch it to a much needed cat, especially since we're going to be dealing with pillaging spears now...

Session break...

IT
Just some movement.

Lit is in, start WC

4) 670BC
Ping an Iro archer, and keep forces in place to protect single slave. The army has slightly recovered and covers the settler. The Otto spear is moving around our little GS wall: move a GS on top of the newly roaded Dyes to entice it to turn back. Shifted some troops back and forth to be better able to deal with archers approaching Verulamium.

Science to 50% for WC in 4.

The GL is in 50 right now, so indeed very doubtful. If it falls within 16 turns, we can switch to HE without waste.

IT
1 Otto horse retreats at Alesia, three other horses are now stacked just outside our reach. Iros move towards Veru in force, and block our settling spot.

Entremont: Cat > Settler
Alesia: GS > Walls
Camulodunum: Cat > GS

5) 650BC
4/4 GS kills 1/3 Otto horse. 4/5 GS kills 3/3 Iro archer. Other archer is pinged. 4/4 GS kills 3/3 Iro archer, and is now exposed to 2/3 archer at 2/4. [7-1]

IT
Our exposed GS defeats the wounded Iro archer clean and goes elite. Two Otto horses retreat at Alesia. [8-1]

Gergovia: Worker > Cat

6) 630BC
4/4 GS kills 1/3 Otto horse. 3/4 GS kills 1/3 Otto Horse. Throw rock at Otto spear but it doesn't flinch. Go ahead an kill it anyway with 4/4 GS that goes 2/5. Iro archer bombardment gets 1 hit out of 2. GS army does a bit better this time, loosing 4hp to kill two 3/3 Iro archers, and take the hill. Settler in place. 4/5 GS kills 3/3 Iro archer. Decide to defend at Veru. [14-1]

Found Agedincum > Cat (will be helped by chop)

IT
Defensive bombard hits and 3/3 Iro archer dies at Veru. Galley drops archer at Gergovia. [15-1]

Alesia: Walls > Settler

7) 610BC
Found Eboracum > Walls

Ping another Iro archer and move surplus troops towards Eboracum. Other troops rest. Reinforce Gergovia and send GS to Entremont to counter next turn. Let's hope the archer goes for a worker.

Furs are roaded but lux has to stay at 10% for Alesia.

IT
Archer attacks and dies at Gergovia. No attacks at Eboracum. 1 Otto horse retreats at Alesia. Another Otto spear appears. [16-1]

WC > Myst

Entremont: Settler > GS
Augustodurum: Catapult > Worker

Our people want to build the Forbidden Palace! Maybe we should...

8) 590BC
4/4 GS kills 1/3 Otto horse clean and promotes. Can't spare the troops to block the spear completely again, but can switch a tile at Richborough anyway to get faster growth in two turns at the loss of 1spt.

4/4 GS and 4/5 GS kill two 2/3 Iro archers. [19-1]

Decide not to road a freshly irrigated tile near Alesia right now, so I can stack three workers to road towards Wine Town.

Science to 50% for 4-turn research.

IT
See an Iroquois settler pair move by. 3/3 Otto horse kills 5/5 fortified spear behind walls in Alesia . [19-2]

Lugdunum: GS > Spear
Verulamium: Cat > Cat

9) 570BC
5/5 GS kills redlined spearkiller. Ping 3/3 spear and kill it with 4/5 GS. Healthy GS army kills 3/3 Iro spear for two slaves, and a 3/3 archer. That final move gets us contact with the Hittites. [23-2]

The Hittites are up all visible techs; have 14 cities, no iron, 38g. They are only building the other GL, not the one we want (although they have Lit).

Drop another shield at Richborough to grow next turn.

IT
Movement only, among which an Iro spear headed for our furs.

Alesia: Settler > GS

10) 550BC
GS army captures another two workers, and kills a spear in Allegheny. 5/5 GS kills 3/3 fortified archer on mountain. Other Iro archer is pinged. [25-2]

Attacks I didn't do: final archer at Eboracum, Otto archer at Alesia. I don't know what's in the fog at Alesia.

Moves I didn't make: settler in Alesia. I'd go for a spot SW of Richborough with this one.

Lux down to 0%. Our GA is ending, so redo MM. Richborough is in dire need of some worker actions now...

5 elite victories this round, no leaders.

I hope all things of importance will be clear from the image above. Additional notes and explanation:

• The orange cross in the middle indicates that tile is clear of enemy units, I don't know about the question mark tile, but there is probably nothing there either. Our workers should be safe.
• I'd settle at pink dot with the settler out of Alesia (cubsfan has to move it in his preturn). The settler for the wines is in place.
• Alesia is well defended, but our main problem to keep kill ratio up is right there. I didn't dare to expose GSs to kill units at the position the Otto horse holds right now. I propose diverting the workers that have just roaded towards Wine Town to the forest east of Alesia and build a road there. That will give us the advantage there. We have the troops to cover.
• The iron protectors were removed just two turns ago; they must be replaced soon.
• I felt I had to use the army to gain the hills to settle Eboracum. I'd use the army to raze cities only: Allegheny and Salamanca (I think is in the fog east of Eboracum) and then on to others.
• I'd use our next leader to rush the FP, in a town we still have to build, I propose E-E-NE of Eboracum or thereabouts. Eboracum is not on a river, so I'd not build it there.
• The Iro galley came from the east.
• We met the Hittite warrior on the mined tile west of where the Iro worker is now.
• I wouldn't bother with roading the wines until a bit later. Towns that grow above their happiness limit should build settlers. We'll have a lot of land to settle soon .

Well, since I was already wasting time with Civ, might as well waste some more and do a dotmap.

Yellow dot would be safe right now, but needs a road. It wastes a BG but there's coast beyond so no other way really.

The blue dots form a nice pattern, are all on hills. I numbered them for easy reference, but I'd also actually settle them in that order, and build the FP in Blue1. (I see that all my JPEG conversion and resizing steps have rendered the 2 a bit illegible; that's the dot closest to the wines.)

looks like solid progress

I would like to have a 2nd army before the FP...

question, why is our GL city stuck at size 5, this way we surely won't get the GL

Great set Mumpulus . That makes Cubsfan up.

Edit on xpost- I think GL city needs more worker attention if we want any chance of getting it.

Keep building settlers, even if there isn't an imediate place to settle.

The GL town was growing at +1fpt and going for max shields when I got the save, and I kept it that way for the early turns, especially during our GA. The last few turns I MMd for rapid growth. At this moment, the gain of an additional citizen cannot gain it another shield, which is why I halted its growth after it grew last IT.

Production was at max throughout the GA, but now that that golden period has ended, the tiles need actual work to get 2 shields per tile.

I doubt we are going to get the GL. Maybe if we had started it in another town, chances would have been better, but there really was no other option than Richborough. Unfortunately, Richborough is actually a poor site with some corruption and no strong tiles for food of production. Worker turns were scarce during my turns, and for the coming turns I doubt we'll be able to spare much more than the one worker we have in the neighborhood.

I'd rather we switch to HE immediately, and do self research throughout. On standard pangaea AWE, I've never bothered with the GL (after I did bother to build it during my very first win and then got next to nothing out of it). There is one tech we could use right now, and that is Monarchy. Myst is being done in 4 turns at 50%, Poly will need a higher rate, but will probably still be doable in 5 or 6 turns (without GA now), only Monarchy itself will take a bit more. After that, we can catch up picking the cheapest tech each time. In the MA, I'd beeline to Cav, especially since we have a fast unit already. On emperor that gets you Cavs long before any AI, on DG I'd expect us to get there at about the same time.

Great kill raio, if we can keep this up we'll be ok. How large is the stack. We probably should try to finish of the iro's. When we have a good bite outof them I think we shoul focus on smeone else. Also think GL won't work, but could as wel just try and switch to HE when neccesary. Should keep research up for now until we might get it.

@nerovats: not sure what stack you are referring to. If it's the army you mean, well then that's just it: the army, covering two workers that were just captured.

We have no troops to spare for offense right now, but that will change very soon I feel. We have gained some cats during my turns, so we can go slightly lighter on defense. I'd try to send some extra units to the Iroquois to disrupt them a bit more and pick off the occasional unit.

We can't check if they have horses, but it's pretty clear they don't, and no iron either. We got lucky there. My bet is that horses are near the spot where Rat destroyed the first town.

For clarity:

Roster
Mumpulus - Just played
Own - On deck
nerovats
Mizar
ThERat
cubsfan6506 - Up (swapped with Mumpulus)

Tech:
Agreed that Monarchy is our short term goal. With the current prebuild, we have (close to) zero chances on getting the GL, the land just wasn't in our favor, no real good prebuil-town and we didn't focus 100% on that.
This is no disaster but we need to use our early discoverage of lit and build libs in the core to keep up in research. Beeing not scientific is a handicap in AW, libs take their time but we need them.

New towns:
We should try to keep our frontline as small as possible so blue 3 and 4 are far off, other towns (like N NE NE from eboracum that keep the empire compact) should be settled first.

Generally good progress

Play tonight.

once we have destroyed most of Iro's, we might want to keep their cities. This will help us a lot to expand faster.

Let's not create a gigantic front by destroying the iros, unlike that Handy AWD standard pangaea, we aren't the Mayans, which means less slaves and not industrious, so connecting cities for patrolling with armies may not work as well. I just don't know how we can prevent that happening...