Clash of War(Peace)mongers on Deity - BTS

Actually, I have a plan to victory. Yep. After much deliberation and calculation I came up with one.

First off, I need more cities. That's why I declared war on Hannibal. Cultural war. Settled two cities right on the border and started compressing his influence.

On the diplo front I managed to bribe both Boudica and S-dude to sign defensive pacts with me. Also met Mansa and traded a lot, but now he has "too much on his hands"...hrm!

Finally I went for democracy during a golden age. I'll have a turn in the end to switch civics. The way I see it war is inevitable but technology superiority is a must.

aturntodemo.jpg
 
Well done so far guys :goodjob:

I think the biggest problem for us all is not being able to secure enough land early. Although we are able to win the Liberalism race, but our reasearch rate kinda stuck and the later techs become increasingly expensive.

I am thinking another strategy:

1. Being organized, we land grab very aggressively in the beginning. Use Berlin as settler/worker factory and pomp them out non-stop. Should be able to settle/capture(barb cities) 8-10 cities during this phase.

2. settle copper/fish/gold city first and use it as unit city to produce garrison/escort troops to new cities. Depending on how many barb cities you see, build more Swords to capture them, some are great city sites.

3. Beeline to COL, and try settle as many as good cities sites to the East and North, including those Deer cities up in the tundras.

4. Science will be low for a while, but in all new cities, cottage river tiles/floods. Grab all the resources. Whip cheap courthouse in all. The early cottages will allow all cities pay for themselves.

5. Use Capital as temporary GP farm to grow GS to bulb key techs. Basically a hybrid economy.

6. Get everyone Pleased/Friendly.

We do this to deny the land Hannibal can get and our mid-late game research rate will be huge no matter what economy we run
 
Johan^^ said:
As far as i remember, the rule of this chart is, that for each row number above four, you get 1 negative hidden moddifier. So calc. example:

Us Frederik (8) and Hannibal (2) the base attitude is:
-(8-4-2) = -2 - 2* = -4

*Warmonger attitude.

Matchup on our continent:
Khemer gay (row=2, 1 warmonger), Boudica(row=1, 2 warmonger) and Hannibal(row=2, 2 warmonger). and us Frederik (row=2, 0 warmonger)

This effectively gives: hannibal -4 ; Boudica -5 ; khemer - 3. That is some serius negative moddifiers to start with. I dont know how deity effects these underlying moddifiers. Though if any effect, it is likely to be even worse.

The hole "problem" with this continent matchup is, that the AI´s are from row 1 and 2, thus not likely to declear war on each other and diffinetly not with only 1 religion on the continent.


On the other continent it is very likely that Mensa(row 9, rest row 2) is a war with the other guys unless he managed to pull some nice moddifiers from religion etc, bribing someone on to his side.
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Really?

I thought that those peace weight rep modifiers only affected AI players. My understanding was that the human always started with a -1 modifier with other AIs at Deity, irrespective of the leader they choose. Some AIs have a base attitude modifier too, Mansa has +1 with everyone for instance.

Great thread btw. I think I'll lurk on this one, I'm not quite ready for this challenge yet. ;)
 
The power of SP watermill, look at the production on these tiles, they even give a surplus of food on grassland! Not to mention that they will get another +2 commerce with electricity (which is required for industrialism anyway), and also the added safety of being easily reconstructed if pillaged.

production%20tiles0000.JPG


Gaze in awe of that which is Munich.

munich0000.JPG
 
The Rook said:
I thought that those peace weight rep modifiers only affected AI players. My understanding was that the human always started with a -1 modifier with other AIs at Deity, irrespective of the leader they choose. Some AIs have a base attitude modifier too, Mansa has +1 with everyone for instance.

Great thread btw. I think I'll lurk on this one, I'm not quite ready for this challenge yet. ;)
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I´m not sure about how deity affects the modifiers...

If you look at the chart i´ve uploaded the base modifiers are also shown. I.e. Ghandi has +2, while Shaka has -1. It´s shown by the colors. The Lines around the different leaders show the warmonger modifiers etc. You have to add em all up to get the correct modifier value. Row, warmonger, base attitude effects.
 
Johan^^ said:
I´m not sure about how deity affects the modifiers...
Click to expand...

According to the reference book, Deity carries a -1 modifier. Immortal is the highest level I have played though, so I can't speak through experience.

Johan^^ said:
If you look at the chart i´ve uploaded the base modifiers are also shown. I.e. Ghandi has +2, while Shaka has -1. It´s shown by the colors. The Lines around the different leaders show the warmonger modifiers etc. You have to add em all up to get the correct modifier value. Row, warmonger, base attitude effects.
Click to expand...

Yes, apologies for my pointless elaboration on the base attitude modifier, as you say, the chart has it covered.

However, I "think" in the case of "base peace weight", the modifier only affects how much the AIs like one another. So Frederick's +8 becomes irrelevant from the game's perspective. I normally end up with a mixture of warmongers and peacemongers when I play, and I cannot recollect any significant difference in the AI leader's initial attitude towards me, irrespective of the base peace weight stat my leader carries. Do you have a different experience of this?
 
Rusten said:
The power of SP watermill, look at the production on these tiles, they even give a surplus of food on grassland! Not to mention that they will get another +2 commerce with electricity (which is required for industrialism anyway), and also the added safety of being easily reconstructed if pillaged.

production%20tiles0000.JPG


Gaze in awe of that which is Munich.
Click to expand...

Very nice :hammers: output! do you plan to have these cities build :science: to rush to Industrialism? Hannibal's science rate is shooting up, cant give him too much time to tech away.
 
Surprisingly I'm doing decent in tech as well. i was the first to research Assembly Plant and currently got 2 turns left on electricity which Hannibal and Huayna got just now the turn before. I spent the last few turns producing some infantry, but after electricity I will production rush Industrialism indeed. With those +2 commerce watermills my commerce will be upped as well. I'm not as frightened by Hannibal as I used to be, he has stagnated a little (although still tech leader). Also signed a defensive pact with Boudica before she turned to Hannibal. I'm a little behind in the Railroad/Artillery tree, but I'll just research those while producing an army and hope to finish off Hannibal in an open war. Main problem now is that I have very little experience in modern war and am very likely to mess up what other people wouldn't.
 
For those too lazy to look at the save; I got about 500 or more extra science from putting hammers to it. State property and factory bonuses gets added to hammers even in research mode and I'm currently getting 1300 science at 1595 AD, which is very good for me at least as I'm usually not the tech leader but trying to win on conquest/domination. First time I play it this extreme, but that's mostly as an experiment and due to a lot of rivers in this game. if the terrain was different and not full of plains I'd be more likely to add in cottages too. Having this kind of production in every city I can dish out panzers at an extreme pace. 7 turns for Industrialism from scratch, time to put the UU to use.
 
Rusten said:
I'm a little behind in the Railroad/Artillery tree, but I'll just research those while producing an army and hope to finish off Hannibal in an open war. Main problem now is that I have very little experience in modern war and am very likely to mess up what other people wouldn't.

Save here, got some problem attaching it for some reason.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167692&d=1200518611
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I´ve have found that besides a good size army of Panzer´s, lots of aircrafts are very helpfull. 2 fighters & 2 bombers together. The bombers are great due to collateral damage and the fighters can both attack and defend. Always have 1 or 2 fighters on that "patrol" thingy.( intercept ? ) I´ve also found, that if attacking with both bombers and fighters, use the fighters first as they will take the first battles with the enemy fighters and thus often save some of your bombers.

I find the normal artillery to slow, though still effective if you ever get them into a fight :lol:
 
The Rook said:
However, I "think" in the case of "base peace weight", the modifier only affects how much the AIs like one another. So Frederick's +8 becomes irrelevant from the game's perspective. I normally end up with a mixture of warmongers and peacemongers when I play, and I cannot recollect any significant difference in the AI leader's initial attitude towards me, irrespective of the base peace weight stat my leader carries. Do you have a different experience of this?
Click to expand...

I must say Í´m not sure on this point about the AI human relation, but atleast for the early game i can pretty much calculate which opponents might cause trouble from this chart. It almost always hold out. Though one of the key things in this evaluation is not just the human AI relationships but the AI to AI relationships. Later in the game, it all about the AI personalities and how well you have conducted relationships with them, which is another discussion :)
 
Looking very promising.

As far as the war goes, I would suggest:

1. Switch to war civics to build CR2+Combat2 Panzers + some barrage Artillary enmass

2. Allocate good EP to Hannibal.

3. Have extra workers quickly build Rail net work to connect all production cities.

4. Check if we can bribe anyone to join

5. Scout for his largest SODs around borders

6. DOW, and wait a couple of turns allowing his SOD enter your territory, destroy them with Barrage Arty + Combat2 Panzers. A rail net work allow us to fight a very mobil war inside your territory. So we can take down large stacks with a smaller but superior force.

7. Go on offensive, incite revolt, CR2 Panzers go in for the kill.

8. Yes, later throw in some Airforce if needed to complet Bliz
 
Which civics should I go for in a modern war? I have an idle Great Prophet and predict I'll bag a Great Engineer soon which I can use for a golden age (had 1 so far) to switch my civics. I guess police state is a no-brainer, but what about theology/vassalage, are they still superb in the late era? Organised religion wouldn't make any sense producing military units, but what about Nationhood vs Vassalage? Which is better? I've done a lousy job of getting drafting cities online so it won't be as effective as it could've been.

Also; if any observers wish to play from my save - feel free. You'll probably do better than me at this stage of the game.^^
 
Police State/Vasslage/Enmancipaion/State property/Theocracy

In a total war, other civics dont really matter that much given your food/hammer economy.

Your HE/WP can build CR3 or Combat3 Panzers straight out, that is power.
 
I would build first batch of Combat3 Panzers to deal with the huge Infantry/Cavary/Cannon/ SODs He has inside your territory; the Combat3 Panzers are so powerful many will be able to attack twice per turn to take out 2 units after a round of Arty barrage. And picking up some nice exp pts. When there is less theat from his offensive SODs, switch to CR3 panzers.
 
I´m a little late to join, but I found this threat just this evening… …caught up a little and played up to lib, which I got first at 540 AD. A little slower then it could have been, but I expanded like mad due to the player friendly map and the huge expansion area… …turned out I overexpanded a little and not only crashed my economy in the beginning but also didn’t keep a closer look on my cultural border, and Hannibal managed to slip in two cities behind my lines… …Still I´m doing pretty good so far, with 9 cities founded and space for another 3 good ones. Boudica was the one who suffered from my extreme-expansion and got squeezed in by the other AI´s with only 5 cities. Hannibal has 11 cities, but 2 are extremely crappy (and behind my lines in the tundra/ice region), Surya is the scoreleader and has 12 cities… …so I will be one of the biggest nation once the last cities are founded, even without a war.

I´m running a hybrid economy but plan to switch to a full CE later. We all are in a happy hindu club on our continent, so I don’t really fear to be backstabbed. I will soon overtake Boudica in score and am currently in the tech lead and on the road to rifling.

Spoiler :
North east of my empire, with a last barb city remaining (on a hill) which I will raze once I have upgraded or build some macemen:

View attachment 167695

Northwest with the 2 cities Hannibal planted behind my lines (should have captured the barb city at the westcoast of our continent earlier):

View attachment 167696

And finally the south, where I´m deadlocked in a culture struggle with Hannbial for sugar:

View attachment 167697


I can e-mail the save to somebody for posting it, because I´m again a little short on DB space:D
 
Snaaty said:
I´m a little late to join, but I found this threat just this evening… …caught up a little and played up to lib, which I got first at 540 AD. A little slower then it could have been, but I expanded like mad due to the player friendly map and the huge expansion area… …turned out I overexpanded a little and not only crashed my economy in the beginning but also didn’t keep a closer look on my cultural border, and Hannibal managed to slip in two cities behind my lines… …Still I´m doing pretty good so far, with 9 cities founded and space for another 3 good ones. Boudica was the one who suffered from my extreme-expansion and got squeezed in by the other AI´s with only 5 cities. Hannibal has 11 cities, but 2 are extremely crappy (and behind my lines in the tundra/ice region), Surya is the scoreleader and has 12 cities… …so I will be one of the biggest nation once the last cities are founded, even without a war.

I´m running a hybrid economy but plan to switch to a full CE later. We all are in a happy hindu club on our continent, so I don’t really fear to be backstabbed. I will soon overtake Boudica in score and am currently in the tech lead and on the road to rifling.

I can e-mail the save to somebody for posting it, because I´m again a little short on DB space:D
Click to expand...

:goodjob: blocking Snaaty, this is looking real strong now with that score and all that real estate. Looking forward to some strong military action.

I was thinking in order to do your extremely blocking, you d probably need to bring Horse online ASAP so settlers and Chariots can travel together to the remote settling spot, is that what you did? Escorting Axe/Sword/Archers will be too slow and you d risk losing some cities sites to Hannibal.
 
Snaaty said:
I´m a little late to join, but I found this threat just this evening
Click to expand...
Happy to see you in this thread, and better late than never. ;)
I've been following your DD game in stories and tales as well, so very much looking forward to seeing another game of yours. Very impressed (as usual) with the amount of land you managed to claim peacefully thus far. The more details you care to provide the more I'll learn about deity. :D

Feel free to PM me for my mail if you want me to upload your saves, I've got a lot of space still.


ABigCivFan said:
I would build first batch of Combat3 Panzers to deal with the huge Infantry/Cavary/Cannon/ SODs He has inside your territory; the Combat3 Panzers are so powerful many will be able to attack twice per turn to take out 2 units after a round of Arty barrage. And picking up some nice exp pts. When there is less theat from his offensive SODs, switch to CR3 panzers.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%, thanks for the reminder. That's a very good way to maximize the usage of our free blitz promotion.
 
Welcome, Snaaty. I envy you and Rusten for expanding in the tropic area where the resources are different.

My game progresses slowly, mostly due to the extremely intricate diplomacy. It's fascinating how each game is different because of religion.

I've played only 20 turns since my last update. Bribed Hannibal into war v Mansa just in case, turned out there was no need as Mansa and Cathy warred v HC.

Keeping friendly relations with Boudica and Khmer helps with the techs. For a moment there I was #1, but right now Khmer has Rifles on me and Boudica has Medicine. I'm on par with Hannibal. Mansa and Cathy are a few techs behind and HC is last by far, but has Mil Science.

techs1190.jpg



The Khmer just attacked Cathy so there are two cross-pond wars active. Biggest threat atm is Khmer cultural, already has three cities of 8k or more.

My best city accounts for 50% of my research. Oxford is on the way but the assembly/coal plants are priority (no stone). The levee is already up.

cap1190.jpg




PS. I'm running out of space too. Can someone upload Snaaty's saves?
 
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