Inca

Oh yeah, one more bit of mountain city weirdness: They can't have trade routes. Land routes at least, I didn't have a coastal mountain to try out sea routes. I really hope these work out because in theory it's an absolutely perfect fit with the UI's adjacency mechanics by not blocking a terrace or normal farm with the city tile.

Llednar Twem said:

Oh yeah, one more bit of mountain city weirdness: They can't have trade routes. Land routes at least, I didn't have a coastal mountain to try out sea routes. I really hope these work out because in theory it's an absolutely perfect fit with the UI's adjacency mechanics by not blocking a terrace or normal farm with the city tile.

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I thought this was the case until I saw a caravan traveling over a mountain-cluster, now I'm not sure anymore.

Well, all I know is I definitely couldn't send caravans from my mountain cities to even very nearby city-states. I had to make another city to do that...which was fine because I wanted to make a coastal city anyway, but still weird.

Llednar Twem said:

Well, all I know is I definitely couldn't send caravans from my mountain cities to even very nearby city-states. I had to make another city to do that...which was fine because I wanted to make a coastal city anyway, but still weird.

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Sure you were in range? I've had a lot of problem with predicting caravan range recently (no idea why)

The coastal city I used instead was significantly farther away and worked fine, so the mountain cities were definitely in range. The caravans even went along the mountain roads and through those cities on the way. Something was just preventing them from recognizing mountain cities as a viable origin or destination.

Llednar Twem said:

The coastal city I used instead was significantly farther away and worked fine, so the mountain cities were definitely in range. The caravans even went along the mountain roads and through those cities on the way. Something was just preventing them from recognizing mountain cities as a viable origin or destination.

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Oh, might be that

Llednar Twem said:

The coastal city I used instead was significantly farther away and worked fine, so the mountain cities were definitely in range. The caravans even went along the mountain roads and through those cities on the way. Something was just preventing them from recognizing mountain cities as a viable origin or destination.

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Make a GitHub post please.
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I just wanted to check because I hadn't gotten the opportunity, but if an Incan city settles on a mountain that's also a natural wonder, does the city also gain the natural wonder's yields/benefits?

JungleBucks said:

I just wanted to check because I hadn't gotten the opportunity, but if an Incan city settles on a mountain that's also a natural wonder, does the city also gain the natural wonder's yields/benefits?

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In the latest hotfix the Inca are no longer able to settle on wonders. Cities on wonders were simply deleting the wonders, afaik.

I have to say, the Inca are really able to generate a lot of food now. You have to be quite careful with them - I had two games where I put terraces and farms on every non-resource tile, and ended up with gigantic cities, which had a lot of pop (obviously) and science, but little production, gold, culture or anything else really. Happiness plummeted and I lost.
The terraces are powerful, but have to be used with caution.

Not sure if it is Inca in particular or the AI in general but after completing the Stonehenge in their capital, Inca were besieged by barbarians resulting in the loss of their capital, which became a barbarian puppet. Despite having two other cities a that point, pretty impressive considering the time of the game, they couldn't muster an army to take it back, instead went about building small cities all over the map including right in the middle of a cluster of Celtic cities. The neighbouring CS of Sidon continued sending spearmen to whittle down the city and at the moment, after getting my own nation in order I have marched on Cuzco in an attempt to take back.

ExpiredReign said:

Not sure if it is Inca in particular or the AI in general but after completing the Stonehenge in their capital, Inca were besieged by barbarians resulting in the loss of their capital, which became a barbarian puppet. Despite having two other cities a that point, pretty impressive considering the time of the game, they couldn't muster an army to take it back, instead went about building small cities all over the map including right in the middle of a cluster of Celtic cities. The neighbouring CS of Sidon continued sending spearmen to whittle down the city and at the moment, after getting my own nation in order I have marched on Cuzco in an attempt to take back.

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Can barbs even take cities? I don't think I've ever seen it. I've just seen them ransom the city back to you for a ton of gold.

Well going from what I'm looking at, apparently they can. There was a notification that Inca lost their capital and I assumed it was the Celts, as they were amassing a sizeable force, but was surprised to find it taken by barbs.
No chance of any interference by another mod as I'm not running anything else.

Funak said:

Can barbs even take cities? I don't think I've ever seen it. I've just seen them ransom the city back to you for a ton of gold.

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I've seen them take cs at least 4 times.

Gokudo01 said:

I've seen them take cs at least 4 times.

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Well, they take city-states with the sacking event, that's not exactly the same thing.

Continuing from here.

Funak said:

Considering Artillery have indirect fire, you can place them behind mountain-ranges and achieve the exact same result.

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This is flatly incorrect.

Maya gets using mountain vs anyone else mountain-hugging: +1 Range; cannot be attacked by melee units. Can move over mountains to break LOS and end combat at any point. Can attack across mountains to attack enemy units attempting to attack their invincible ranged units.

This is a non-trivial difference.

supracseduch said:

How about something like 15 attrition per turn if a unit ends its turn on a mountain? That way, their ranged units can't just keep pummeling down enemy melee units with impunity. They can still retreat across mountains or use them for ambushes. That's fine.

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I would boost it into the 30-50 level if roads are not present. Giving Inca units of 6(!!!) turns of immunity to melee reprisal is very strong.

Mountains are overall rare. Is the mountain attack a real issue? No offense, but I think people forget this is a strategy game sometimes. You need to lure your enemy out of the land that gives them the advantage. I'm sorry this ranks up there with the people complaining that they can't hold a razing city with one unit.

I admit, that once leveled up to crossbow the Inca UU is pretty powerfull. There are other civs that also have equally powerful units however.

The bonus the Inca has is that their unit is pretty much buidable from the get go.

I would actually be ok with them losing the pull back from melee attack when they upgrade. However, if we start striping all UU of their bonus when they upgrade we move this game one step closer to making all the civ play more the same. This is something the CPP has moved AWAY from.

Zanteogo said:

Mountains are overall rare. Is the mountain attack a real issue? No offense, but I think people forget this is a strategy game sometimes. You need to lure your enemy out of the land that gives them the advantage. I'm sorry this ranks up there with the people complaining that they can't hold a razing city with one unit.

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Pretty much exactly my opinion in the matter. I guess you could make Inca units attack-able on mountains but you'd have to give them something like a 600% defense-bonus, to represent the enemy unit trying to attack up a mountain they can't even climb, and that's a silly solution.

I admit, that once leveled up to crossbow the Inca UU is pretty powerfull. There are other civs that also have equally powerful units however.

The bonus the Inca has is that their unit is pretty much buidable from the get go.

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Having it available from the start is both good and bad, sure you'll get more use out of it throughout the game, but you also have to build all the slingers you'll ever use before they go obsolete at machinery, meaning you're going to have to waste maintenance on them for a good part of the game where they actually aren't that useful (considering at least imho the mid-game wars are the most important) You can (and probably should) also reach machinery pretty damn quickly (as most of the AI seems to rush that direction). On the other hand the Chu-ko-nu doesn't go obsolete until Dynamite, giving you pretty much most of the game to build them before they go obsolete.

I would actually be ok with them losing the pull back from melee attack when they upgrade. However, if we start striping all UU of their bonus when they upgrade we move this game one step closer to making all the civ play more the same. This is something the CPP has moved AWAY from.

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I have a thread discussing letting more units keep more promotions when they upgrade, mostly because I think it is way too punishing to be forced into warfare in one specific era (unless that era is gunpowder ).

I mean if the Slingers lost their promotions when upgraded, you'd somehow have to make a war before the AI gets to Engineering, which isn't anywhere near as bad as it used to be, but still, early warfare is a huge commitment.
Atlatlist, which has the benefit of being available earlier than the normal Compbow as well, is considered one of the weaker UUs in the game because it loses its benefits when upgraded.

Inca will no longer be able to heal on non-city mountains in next version. Should be a fair nerf, without breaking their UA value.

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Gazebo said:

Inca will no longer be able to heal on non-city mountains in next version. Should be a fair nerf, without breaking their UA value.

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Will this actually change anything towards warfare? I can see it being slightly annoying while exploring but if it doesn't change anything it isn't worth adding it as an exception to the rule.



By the way is it intended that Inca still have their old cheap roads UA? Because I'm fairly certain I was paying less gold maintenance for my roads in my last Inca game.